Brad Treliving needs to go

[nik-]

Will our head of scouting survive another regime change or can we start comparing our success to other teams in the league as opposed to old versions of the Flames?

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by nik-

Will our head of scouting survive another regime change or can we start comparing our success to other teams in the league as opposed to old versions of the Flames?

Tod Button has photos of someone doing something they shouldn’t.

Drafts have been decent, but nothing to write home about. Nothing that anyone else couldn’t have done if they’d spent six weeks poring over the FC draft guide.

In fact, that actually explains the entire McDonald/Andersson/Kylington 2nd round.

[Inglewood Jack]

The bust UFA signings like Brouwer and Neal are the highest visibility mistakes, but the constant rotating cast of replacement level bottom roster skaters has been just as damaging in my opinion, through expenditure of middle draft picks and denial of prospect development.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by nik-

Will our head of scouting survive another regime change or can we start comparing our success to other teams in the league as opposed to old versions of the Flames?

I’d credit Feaster with changing that from what Darryl says to a scouting team. since then seems to me the flames scouting has gotten better as years passed and is now pretty solid.

Maybe just me.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

I’d credit Feaster with changing that from what Darryl says to a scouting team. since then seems to me the flames scouting has gotten better as years passed and is now pretty solid.

Maybe just me.

I think they function as a competent scouting department. But who have they turned up since Gaudreau in the 4th round a decade ago? (Jesus)

Mangiapane is the only noteworthy player obtained outside the top 2 rounds.

None of the college free agents have become anything. Here or elsewhere.

Every single goalie drafted by this team has been a debacle at the NHL level. For over two decades. The only guy who managed to escape the cursed touch of being drafted by this organization as a netminder is Craig Anderson.

Yeah. New scouting department. Add that to the list.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by nik-

Will our head of scouting survive another regime change or can we start comparing our success to other teams in the league as opposed to old versions of the Flames?

Drafts are always hard to evaluate because the most recent ones are not yet long enough to really assess.
But I think, for the quality and number of picks, the scouts have had the team has done a really good job.

BT's first real draft was 2015. He didn't have a big say in 2014, and it's unclear how much influence Burke had. But let's include it

2014
NHLers: 1 (Bennett)
Overall score: BAD

2015:
NHLers: 2.5 (Rasmus, Eat Bread, Kylington)
Overall score: GREAT for not having a 1st round pick they got two NHl players playing up in the lineup.

2016
NHLers: 3 including 2 stars (Tkachuk and Fox)
Potential prospects: 2 or 3 (Parsons, Tuulola, Philips)
Overall score: GREAT (on the backs of the Fox and Dube picks)

2017
NHLers: 1 (Juuso Valimaki)
Potential prospects: 1 (Ruzicka)
Overall score: Too early to tell. Will depend on how Juuso does but he's looking good

2018
NHLers: 0
Potential prospects: 3 (Pospisil, Pettersen, Little Z)
Overall score: Too early to tell but Pettersen and Little Z are trending well above where they were drafted

2019
NHLes: 0
Potential prospects: 3 (Pelletier, Nikolaev, Wolf)
Overall score: Too early to tell. Wolf seems like a great selection at 214

2020 way too early to tell.


I think they've done well absent a lot of high picks or quantity of picks. THN typically does a report every year on draft performance normalized for picks but I can't find it now.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I think they function as a competent scouting department. But who have they turned up since Gaudreau in the 4th round a decade ago? (Jesus)

Mangiapane is the only noteworthy player obtained outside the top 2 rounds.

None of the college free agents have become anything. Here or elsewhere.

Every single goalie drafted by this team has been a debacle at the NHL level. For over two decades. The only guy who managed to escape the cursed touch of being drafted by this organization as a netminder is Craig Anderson.

Yeah. New scouting department. Add that to the list.

Magnianpane
Fox
Andersson at #53 is a great pick. 2nd round picks are far from a slam dunk.
Dube also is looking like a good pick.
Kulak at 105 is good

And they've drafted guys late who are trending well above their draft position: Pettersen, Zavgorodniy, Tuulola, Wolf.

yes every team has prospects like that, but there's some good early signs there.

Under the current regime I think drafting has been way better.

[chedder]

Isn't it a bad thing that we have no nhl players drafted from 2018 on playing in the league? I know we have given away picks, which is part of the problem.

Good teams have young players playing these days it seems.

And why is Fox considered a good pick? I thought it was pretty well known at the time he had no intention of signing here.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by chedder

Isn't it a bad thing that we have no nhl players drafted from 2018 on playing in the league? I know we have given away picks, which is part of the problem.

Good teams have young players playing these days it seems.

And why is Fox considered a good pick? I thought it was pretty well known at the time he had no intention of signing here.

Fox is a good pick because he’s a good player at the NHL level.

[Jiri Hrdina]

And was used to acquire young and top of the lineup players.
That 3rd round was well used. No question.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by chedder

Isn't it a bad thing that we have no nhl players drafted from 2018 on playing in the league? I know we have given away picks, which is part of the problem.

Good teams have young players playing these days it seems.

And why is Fox considered a good pick? I thought it was pretty well known at the time he had no intention of signing here.

2018? Hardly any players outside the studs have played meaningful games. No one outside the first round has played over 20. And TB, Boston, Washington, Vegas, none have any 2018 draft picks on the roster.

I don’t know what intel they had on Fox at the draft but whatever they knew, they parlayed him into the deal for Lindholm and Hanifin so that’s something.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by chedder

Isn't it a bad thing that we have no nhl players drafted from 2018 on playing in the league? I know we have given away picks, which is part of the problem.

Good teams have young players playing these days it seems.

And why is Fox considered a good pick? I thought it was pretty well known at the time he had no intention of signing here.

Whoa whoa . You mean the point of drafting is to develop quality NHlers

How many 20 goals scorers has this team drafted in the last 5 years ? Not stars . 20 goal scorers

How many starting goalies has this team drafted in the past decade ?

Our farm system is ranked around 20th, and while we have promoted some nice quality pieces recently , we don’t ever hit on goalies - causing us to waste tons of picks and then have to pay for a elite FA, and we can’t develop forwards to save our lifes

We can’t even fill out a 4th line and 3rd D pairings with cheap energetic youth. Instead we keep trading picks (part of the problem) and signing players to fill out these spots

Just another one of this teams many problems

Anyone who thinking we are anywhere except bottom 1/3 in drafting is delusional

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by chedder

Isn't it a bad thing that we have no nhl players drafted from 2018 on playing in the league? I know we have given away picks, which is part of the problem.

Good teams have young players playing these days it seems.

And why is Fox considered a good pick? I thought it was pretty well known at the time he had no intention of signing here.

In 2018 the Flames first pick was in the 4th round. From the 4th on in that draft there have been 3 players play in the NHL totaling 45 games. Problem here isn't bad picking it's lack of picks.

In 2019 the Flames picked 26th. After that selection there have been 3 players play in NHL games. Two with 1 game each and one (Hoglander) with 24 games. Great pick. But that's it.

There have been 2 players (#1 and #3) play in the from the 2020 draft.

So across those 3 drafts there are 8 players in total that have played a single game or more who were selected after the Flames earliest pick.

So nope - the lack of NHL players from those drafts isn't a sign of a problem at all.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Anyone who thinking we are anywhere except bottom 1/3 in drafting is delusional

Not when normalized for picks and quality of picks. On that basis I would say the Flames are top third or top half over the last 5 years.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Whoa whoa . You mean the point of drafting is to develop quality NHlers

How many 20 goals scorers has this team drafted in the last 5 years ? Not stars . 20 goal scorers

How many starting goalies has this team drafted in the past decade ?

Our farm system is ranked around 20th, and while we have promoted some nice quality pieces recently , we don’t ever hit on goalies - causing us to waste tons of picks and then have to pay for a elite FA, and we can’t develop forwards to save our lifes

We can’t even fill out a 4th line and 3rd D pairings with cheap energetic youth. Instead we keep trading picks (part of the problem) and signing players to fill out these spots

Just another one of this teams many problems

Anyone who thinking we are anywhere except bottom 1/3 in drafting is delusional

In the last 5 years? So only since the Matthew Tkachuk draft in 2016?

You realize that hardly anyone has any players from 2018 onward - that’s Brady Tkachuk’s year and he and Svechnikov are the only 20 goal guys. Then 2017 there’s Petterson and Hischier (and he only did it in his rookie year and not since). So 2016, Calgary drafted Tkachuk who is one of 6 20 goal scorers (the others are Matthews, Keller, Laine, PLD, and Debrincat. Keller’s only done it once, as a rookie.

So Calgary has drafted as many 20 goal scorers as 9 other teams and more than the rest in the last 5 years.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

In the last 5 years? So only since the Matthew Tkachuk draft in 2016?

You realize that hardly anyone has any players from 2018 onward - that’s Brady Tkachuk’s year and he and Svechnikov are the only 20 goal guys. Then 2017 there’s Petterson and Hischier (and he only did it in his rookie year and not since). So 2016, Calgary drafted Tkachuk who is one of 6 20 goal scorers (the others are Matthews, Keller, Laine, PLD, and Debrincat. Keller’s only done it once, as a rookie.

So Calgary has drafted as many 20 goal scorers as 9 other teams and more than the rest in the last 5 years.

I will admit I assumed there were more!

However, I stand by my premise (Even though my evidence was poor! Appreciate the correction)

We suck and have sucked at drafting for the last 20 years. This is why the team is always getting into the same cycle.

Waste picks to fill out depth. Have less picks so less chances at good players which contributes to poor drafting/player pipeline, so then overpay for depth FA's. Watch team wallow in mediocracy.

The fact that we got a undrafted Norris Trophy winner and a 4th round star and still cant win a playoff round shows how god awful our drafting and player development is.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

The bust UFA signings like Brouwer and Neal are the highest visibility mistakes, but the constant rotating cast of replacement level bottom roster skaters has been just as damaging in my opinion, through expenditure of middle draft picks and denial of prospect development.

Need BIG fast guys on the 4th line so they can do some damage. We seem to keep adding pieces that don't really fit. Someone in the office is not doing their job very well!

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Need BIG fast guys on the 4th line so they can do some damage. We seem to keep adding pieces that don't really fit. Someone in the office is not doing their job very well!

We really just need good hockey players in the bottom six.

For Treliving's entire tenure here, he has seemingly focused on deploying nothing but bad hockey players in the bottom six. It has been, and still is a bold strategy.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

We really just need good hockey players in the bottom six.

For Treliving's entire tenure here, he has seemingly focused on deploying nothing but bad hockey players. It has been, and still is a bold strategy.

Those bad players brought handcuffs! We have never really recovered from those moves!

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Drafts are always hard to evaluate because the most recent ones are not yet long enough to really assess.
But I think, for the quality and number of picks, the scouts have had the team has done a really good job.

BT's first real draft was 2015. He didn't have a big say in 2014, and it's unclear how much influence Burke had. But let's include it

2014
NHLers: 1 (Bennett)
Overall score: BAD

2015:
NHLers: 2.5 (Rasmus, Eat Bread, Kylington)
Overall score: GREAT for not having a 1st round pick they got two NHl players playing up in the lineup.

2016
NHLers: 3 including 2 stars (Tkachuk and Fox)
Potential prospects: 2 or 3 (Parsons, Tuulola, Philips)
Overall score: GREAT (on the backs of the Fox and Dube picks)

2017
NHLers: 1 (Juuso Valimaki)
Potential prospects: 1 (Ruzicka)
Overall score: Too early to tell. Will depend on how Juuso does but he's looking good

2018
NHLers: 0
Potential prospects: 3 (Pospisil, Pettersen, Little Z)
Overall score: Too early to tell but Pettersen and Little Z are trending well above where they were drafted

2019
NHLes: 0
Potential prospects: 3 (Pelletier, Nikolaev, Wolf)
Overall score: Too early to tell. Wolf seems like a great selection at 214

2020 way too early to tell.


I think they've done well absent a lot of high picks or quantity of picks. THN typically does a report every year on draft performance normalized for picks but I can't find it now.

Burke had THE say in 2014. Fires Feaster then has amateur scout meeting where he sets attributes big, leaders, character

Go back to post draft interviews with Button on 2014 or any others. He literally says the attributes: Swedish Mattson "big, leader", Hunter Smith. This was all Burke

Feaster was about hockey sense. On Kanzig "we like his brain"

2015, 2016 taking Mangiapane etc "skill" whatever Treliving emphasized