If that Gallant thing is true, then sign me up, we need a pulse reader more than a numbers guy on the bench. Last coach we had to milk all the effort he could put of this core was Hartley. And we desperately miss his in game reads.
Not a bad point to make.
Tree is responsible for bringing in nothing but strong players.
Gallant is responsible for getting the most of out of the players Tree brings in.
So basically what CP is saying is we have a winger with creativity but no size in order to compete, and a Center who competes but has no creativity. Just great.
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It's where the 14-15 season was a curse to be honest. The season was great fun, and the only official playoff round this team has won in 16 years but it threw off the trajectory of the team from "Rebuild" to "Win Now" too quickly. The team wasn't ready to be in "Win Now" mode but that season pushed ownership, management, and the fan base to that space again. But the biggest thing is that since the expecations changed the coaching style went from "development" to "win now".
So what ended up happening is we didn't properly develop our young players, and instead deployed them in the way that was going to end up with the best short term results.
-Instead of Monahan getting time as a 200ft center, he was leveraged in a sheltered offensive center role that was getting fed offensive zone starts, and no PK time.
-Bennett was bounced around the lineup, shifted between C and LW and didn't really find a role. Also was never used on the PK to help develop defensive awareness.
-Gaudreau also didn't really develop a 200ft game and was used in sheltered offensive minutes as well.
-Tkachuk came in and made an impact which helped, but really he has holes in his game (poor skating, doesn't PK) that also weren't developed.
-Guys like Janko, Gillies, Poirier, Klimchuk, etc didn't develop as anticipated either, leading us to make other moves to try to accelerate the rebuild and add to the core.
Plus over the next two seasons they signed Brouwer and Frolik to big, longer term contracts to add to the core. Traded 1st, 2nd, 2nd, for Hamilton. Traded a 2nd, 3rd for Elliott. And looking further down the line they made the ill advised Hamonic trade. So the team started looking for short term stop gaps to help in the playoffs, instead of what should have been along term plan still.
In retrospect that season was probably a curse more than a help because it changed the expectations and people thought the rebuild was further along than it actually was.
I get your point to a degree in regards to fan expectations, I think the 14-15 season did change our perception of the team, but in regards to the ownership and management, I have a different opinion. Perhaps their perception of where the team was did change, but if they weren't properly developing players because of a little taste of success, wouldn't that be a detriment to the organization? They can't try to win and develop at the same time? Especially in regards to things like Monahan and Gaudreau developing a 200 foot game. How do they expect to win anything meaningful if players aren't developing a 200ft game?
I still can't get over this stinging and it's been like this since last years playoff exit. I'm totally not upset about losing but more so by the way we lose and Treliving not addressing anything since last year.
The Avs killed us by their speed. They beat us to the puck, they beat us for the puck, and we just don't have an answer.
We beat the Jets but still you look at the way a player like Kyle Connor slices and dices his way into our zone uncontested, the Jets just weren't deep enough to beat us yet we didn't look like we were a dominant team.
The Stars are pretty much doing what the Avs did to us. The series should be over by now 4-1 but we stole game 3. No adjustments by the coaching staff. After game 3 everyone was preaching about winning and it doesn't matter how you do it, well, it sure aged pretty quick. After game 4 Ward was talking about how this is a great time and being all positive about it.
I said this before trade deadline, we should have made moves for the future because we're not a contender. Instead Treliving is insistent on making minor tweaks and adding a PP specialist offensive minded dman that isn't a great defender which we already might have in Kylington, a slow stay at home dman in Forbort which we already have in Stone.
Hopefully we can somehow pull a rabbit out of a hat for the rest of this series.
Flames will win game 6 if their best players ( top salaried)are their best players.
Realistically, it’s pretty amazing there is a game 6 if you honestly grade their best players performances up to this point.
Talbot, Bennett, Dube Lucic, Backlund, Ryan, Andersson , Hanifin and Brodie and some others have competed hard and for the most part, played very very well.
The high end guys have to step it up and be the “drink stir” leaders.
That’s NOT on the coaches.
Also, NOT on system or tactics.
It is having the pride and commitment, through thick and thin, to play up to their highest standard and being positive difference makers in the shift, game and remainder of the series.
That’s what good teammates and top performers (producers) do.
Haven’t seen it yet and the moment is now because time is running out.
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They can't try to win and develop at the same time? Especially in regards to things like Monahan and Gaudreau developing a 200 foot game. How do they expect to win anything meaningful if players aren't developing a 200ft game?
It's a short term mindset vs. long term mindset.
If the Owner and GM expectation is the coach makes the playoffs, then the coach needs to do whatever he can for the team to improve short term and make the playoffs.
Putting those players in tough situations that help them develop a more well rounded game maybe makes them better player long term, but it likely ends up coming with growing pains in the short term. And if those growing pains result in more losses, it goes against the coaches short term goal of making the playoffs.
So coaches end up playing Gaudreau and Monahan in sheltered minutes (offensive zone starts, bottom 6 competition) to allow them to have offensive success which helps the team win in the short term but they didn't get experience playing tough minutes, or in defensive situations, which would help long term.
And a guy like Bennett gets bounced around the 2-4th line and between LW and Center because the team can't live through his growing pains in centering the third line because they need to make the playoffs.
So short term priorities start to undermine the long term development of the team, and I think a big part of that is because the 14-15 season accelerated expectations.
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Haven’t seen it yet and the moment is now because time is running out.
Truly the biggest game of the season on Thursday. I hope they prove us all wrong.
They've had some bad luck (broken sticks, penalties, and whatnot). But good teams make their own luck (look at Dallas willing their way back into the series over the course of the last three games).
This group has had their chances. If they can't manage it tomorrow, I expect we'll see major changes in the offseason.
Last edited by Flames0910; 08-19-2020 at 11:56 AM.
3. Up and coming coach (no re-treads, no 2nd chancers - a genuine up and comer - I'm trying to look around and see who would be considered one of these)
Brad Larsen from Columbus?
He was an assistant in Springfield and then was promoted to head coach for two seasons before being promoted to Columbus as an assistant.
Rick Kowalsky from New Jersey?
He's been an assistant for the Devils for two years and was the head coach of their AHL team for 8 years, including a year he won AHL coach of the year.
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I'm fine with big game hunting for coaches in the off season before committing to Ward. If you can upgrade you do it.
But I'm bracing for the assumption that they didn't even try when Ward is converted to the official head coach, and I doubt that will be the case.
I don't think coaching the Flames is high on any of the available guys lists.
The Oilers last three coaches were McLellan, Hitchcock, and Tippett. All big name guys. I not buying that top coaches won't come to Calgary. I would buy a scenario where the owners won't pay top dollar for big name head coaches or the GM is looking for guys he's had previous relationships with or fits his vision rather than outright hiring head coaches that have been successful at other stops. Either way my expectations are very low in regards to the next head coach as this organization has only got that hire right once in the last 30 years and may just be the worst organization in the NHL when it comes to hiring coaches.
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The Oilers last three coaches were McLellan, Hitchcock, and Tippett. All big name guys. I not buying that top coaches won't come to Calgary. I would buy a scenario where the owners won't pay top dollar for big name head coaches or the GM is looking for guys he's had previous relationships with or fits his vision rather than outright hiring head coaches that have been successful at other stops. Either way my expectations are very low in regards to the next head coach as this organization has only got that hire right once in the last 30 years and may just be the worst organization in the NHL when it comes to hiring coaches.
Certainly possible.
I don't think Peters was cheap though ...
McLellan landed in the middle of the McDavid summer as part of the off ice dream team. Hitchcock was resurrected and Tippet hadn't coached in three years after being let go for starting a mutiny.
Names for sure, but dated and tarnished for the most part.
Maybe Boudreau falls into that category too and comes to Calgary, but I think Gallant and Laviolette will get options and not have to sit for three years like Tippett before Calgary comes a calling.
I mean Hartley was a name for the most part ... just a dated one without a huge competition for his services.
McLellan landed in the middle of the McDavid summer as part of the off ice dream team. Hitchcock was resurrected and Tippet hadn't coached in three years after being let go for starting a mutiny.
Names for sure, but dated and tarnished for the most part.
Maybe Boudreau falls into that category too and comes to Calgary, but I think Gallant and Laviolette will get options and not have to sit for three years like Tippett before Calgary comes a calling.
I mean Hartley was a name for the most part ... just a dated one without a huge competition for his services.
Peters was around $2M per season and for 3 years. If they wanted a guy like AV it would have been likely 5x5 which works out to $19M more.
For coaches I think they care more about the relationship with the GM and owners than anything else. They want a GM that will get them the players they need to be successful and likely want some input. They want owners who are committed to winning and will spend to do so.
I don't think any Canadian team is going to be high on Laviolette's list because his family is rooted in the USA. He's a long shot for any Canadian team IMO. There's something off about Galant the way he gets fired quickly so you have to wonder if GM's (word gets around) are not as high on him as fans like we are. I think Boudreau would be receptive but Treliving didn't interview him last time so who knows.
Didn't Boudreau say he'd take an assistant coaching job just to coach the Leafs before he retired? Cpuld have sworn I read that on the old Twitter somewhere.
Talbot, Bennett, Dube Lucic, Backlund, Ryan, Andersson , Hanifin and Brodie and some others have competed hard and for the most part, played very very well.
The high end guys have to step it up and be the “drink stir” leaders.
That’s NOT on the coaches.
Also, NOT on system or tactics.
The system, tactics, and player utilization ARE failing them though. I'm not even talking about the highly paid guys. Those guys you listed, they've been fortunate to score as even they've been spending far more time in their zone than in the offensive zone due to a passive defensive system and a general lack of neutral zone presence. The on-ice shot attempts and expected goals bear this out in each game.
The coaching is also playing Zac Rinaldo, who is on the ice for 29% of the ES shot attempts, ahead of a capable penalty killer in Mark Jankowski, who has been on the ice for 51% of the ES shot attempts. There's no excuse for this. The Flames have won 2 out of five games with Rinaldo in the lineup during this postseason. They've won 3 out of four games with Jankowski in the lineup. There's no logic being applied.
For all the hype the Lucic - Bennett - Dube line has been getting - and I say this as one of Bennett's biggest supporters on CP - they've gotten hemmed in their own zone far too much due to the systems being utilized. Even the Backlund line has gotten hemmed in far more than they've hemmed the opponent in - and Backlund's claim to fame is his puck possession game and play driving.
No one is excusing the players for their play. You need to stop excusing the coaches for their inability to make any adjustments. And no, they don't get a free pass because they beat an AHL roster during the qualifiers. This first round is the NHL playoffs, and the coaches need to be coaching at an NHL level. It's not clear they are.
What are the things I'd like to see implemented systems-wise?
We can start with the offensive zone. Our defensemen are not cutting off the stars breakout at all. In fact it's the opposite, our defensemen are already at the red line when the stars get the puck at the hash marks. I'm not asking them to make poor pinches, but the stars should not have open ice to be skating the puck out of their defensive zone. This was an issue last year too. The common theme is Ryan Huska as the defenseman coach.
How about our neutral zone tactics? What even are they? I don't know, because our team has zero presence in the neutral zone - and hasn't during Ward's entire tenure here. As a Glen Gulutzan critic - I would tell you that this awful coach had our teams playing ideally in the neutral zone. Ward needs implement something to clog up the neutral zone because right now, the Stars are building too much speed through the middle of the ice, and we're not talking about fast skaters here, we're talking about the Stars' aging roster, guys like Perry, Radulov, and Pavelski are entering our zone unimpeded.
And our defensive zone tactics? They've been far too passive yet again. I get it - we don't want to give up great chances in the slot. No one does. But top tiers are willing to take some risk and force the opponent to make quick decisions with the puck. We don't close gaps at all, and that seems to be coached because the coaching staff has shown contentment with these tactics, as evidenced by Ward claiming that allowing 60 shots in game 4 was acceptable because they were from the outside. Well guess what, the game winners in both games 4 and 5 were from the OUTSIDE! You give the opponent enough chances to shoot at the net, eventually they'll go in. Our strategy in the defensive zone has not worked, regardless of the game 3 shutout (when the Stars missed multiple wide open nets). And while players need to be better with managing the puck in the defensive zone, they need to be that much better at actually acquiring it.
What about our zone entry tactics? There is a time and place for everything sure, but the team has defaulted to dump and chase with almost zero room for a controlled entry. People have been on Gaudreau and Monahan for peeling off on the forecheck, but even Bennett and Lucic have been forechecking to no avail. What's the point in getting a hit on the forecheck if all that's being accomplished is that the defenseman takes the hit, makes an outlet pass, and the other team has a 3 on 2 rush the other way? It's not that guys shouldn't finish checks, but tactically I don't believe they should be constantly putting themselves in a spot to be checking. Not every offensive zone possession needs to be a dump-in. Guys should be empowered to make a mistake, even in the playoffs, to make a play. I do not believe they are.
I'm not an X's and O's mastermind. I'm not paid millions of dollars to coach ice hockey. So maybe I'm an idiot. But what I'm watching is a team that, yes, has roster flaws, but is also severely underperforming in terms of forcing the Stars to make mistakes. Our team is not playing to its potential, and a good part of that is because the tactics being employed are not suitable for the players we employ.
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I believe in the Flames 100% - every single one of them. I know they can be an elite team as Tkachuk said.
They just need to bring their best team game (of which they are more than capable) from the puck drop. It's the little details that allow for the zone time, that allow for the shots getting on net, that allow you to exit clean. If they intensely focus on those details they will play their best.
I have no doubt that they will.
These are good tests - embrace the challenge and the Flames will do amazing things!!!
And our defensive zone tactics? They've been far too passive yet again. I get it - we don't want to give up great chances in the slot. No one does. But top tiers are willing to take some risk and force the opponent to make quick decisions with the puck. We don't close gaps at all, and that seems to be coached because the coaching staff has shown contentment with these tactics, as evidenced by Ward claiming that allowing 60 shots in game 4 was acceptable because they were from the outside. Well guess what, the game winners in both games 4 and 5 were from the OUTSIDE! You give the opponent enough chances to shoot at the net, eventually they'll go in. Our strategy in the defensive zone has not worked, regardless of the game 3 shutout (when the Stars missed multiple wide open nets). And while players need to be better with managing the puck in the defensive zone, they need to be that much better at actually acquiring it.
Flames will win game 6 if their best players ( top salaried)are their best players.
Realistically, it’s pretty amazing there is a game 6 if you honestly grade their best players performances up to this point.
Talbot, Bennett, Dube Lucic, Backlund, Ryan, Andersson , Hanifin and Brodie and some others have competed hard and for the most part, played very very well.
The high end guys have to step it up and be the “drink stir” leaders.
That’s NOT on the coaches.
Also, NOT on system or tactics.
It is having the pride and commitment, through thick and thin, to play up to their highest standard and being positive difference makers in the shift, game and remainder of the series.
That’s what good teammates and top performers (producers) do.
Haven’t seen it yet and the moment is now because time is running out.
This.
At the end of the day yes you can say that better coaching might get top players to perform, but at the end of the day it is still on the players.
To me there is no killer instinct. Could be in part because Tkachuk is not playing, but that still isn't an excuse.
I think 2-3 years of basically the same thing has shown us that we need different leadership on this team leading the charge. That can be internally, or brought in.
I love Monahan, and I've argued a 100x that he is a 1st line center, but he isn't a 1st line center in the playoffs. The guy has all the tools in the world but not the killer instinct needed to carry his line.
Johnny has been an absolute mess. Weak, wins zero puck battles, just terrible. To me that is what you get for $6.5 million. 80 point guy who players PP min. But should he drive the top line or even be part of it? I don't think so.
I also think Giordano has shown that he is expendable. Love the guy, but something is lacking there as well.
Location: F*** me. We're so f***ing good, you check the f***ing standings? Lets f***ing go! F***ing practice!
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Originally Posted by AC
Monahan has absolutely been a disappointment much like Gaudreau. But I do think a lot of Monahan's lack of offense is a result of Gaudreau and Lindholm.
At least Monahan has had multiple shifts consisting of hard work on the backcheck to get the puck back and give it to Gaudreau or Lindholm. That's where the play usually dies from what I've seen.
Link
Great battle to outmuscle the Star and create a 2 on 1 out of nothing. Nice stick by Sekera, but Johnny needs to get that pass across as it would have iced a win most likely (would have made it 5-3).
Link
Great bachcheck to cover for Rasmus who didn't have the speed.
Link
Monahan enters the zone 1 on 4 and rings the puck to 2 Flames, Brodie and Gaudreau. Gaudreau gives Brodie zero option with the puck. Monahan gets it back and makes another nice play to get the puck to Brodie again, once again Johnny is floating around not helping.
As I said, Monahan's lack of offense is a huge disappointment. But I see him battling out there to help his teammates, something that Gaudreau has basically not done at all from what I've seen. I definitely think Monahan would have had some success if he wasn't paired with Gaudreau through these 5 games.
Except you know you went through and cherry picked Monahans "ok" shifts. You are a huge Monahan fan. You could more easily also go and cherry pick Gaudreaus good plays but you wont because you are continually blaming Johnny for Monahans horribad hockey.
As far as your replays go, the first one, yeah we can blame Johnny for not actually getting the puck back to Monahan but it was a good block. The second replay, you ended as soon as Monahan tried to clear the puck, did that stay in the zone?
The third one clearly demonstrates Monahans lack of vision right now. You claim Johnny is just standing around but when Monahan gets the puck back behind the net Johnny flying behind the net and is open for a cycle pass. Monahan instead of dropping it back keeps lumbering forward and stumbles over himself throwing the puck back to Brodie.
Johnny has been much more dangerous than Monahan. Shows more passion, more drive and creates more offense than Sean Monahan ever does. Monahan has been a no show. He has been pretty much invisible. Hes fired most of his shots directly into the crest of the goalie.
You can pretend that Monahan hasnt been a passenger but to me he really has been the ultimate passenger.
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