The Deal With Geoff Ward

[Jeff Lebowski]

What are the players saying? This was after a WPG game but CGY has played a ton of games against teams that clog the nz:

Gio

That’s where you have to get to. We have a good enough team where we can come back if we’re down one or two, and we have to stick with our game. I mean, once we start cleaning this up where we get the lead ourselves in the first period and stick to our game, that’s when we’re gonna really be at our best but I think, especially against Winnipeg… If you don’t transition quickly against them, they literally have five guys in the neutral zone. You gotta try to break that down and the only way to get through that is to put pucks behind their D and forecheck.

Ryan:

They’re pretty tight in and around the neutral zone, so I thought that in the first period we were pretty disconnected, kind of stretching out a lot, not giving our D many options. Then when we saw having success, whether it was in the second or later in the third there, I felt like we were more of a cohesive unit, coming back, supporting each other. We know their systems and their structure in the neutral zone, we know how to beat it, we just tend to get away from it at some points of the game and I think it’s pretty indicative that when we are focusing on that, doing the right things in the neutral zone, getting it behind their D, we have more success. But when we get a little stubborn, then that’s when we get into trouble.

I mean that the structure that we’re successful in through the neutral zone isn’t a pretty game. It’s usually making sure we just get pucks behind their D, and we get stubborn in that we like to try to carry pucks through their neutral zone forecheck and their forecheck, they have three guys spread across the blueline, it’s pretty hard to carry pucks in. We do it sometimes, we create offense, but we get stubborn, we want to do it more often and I think that’s when we turn pucks over. And I don’t know what the analytics are, but I think Winnipeg’s probably one of the best teams in the league at that transition game in the neutral zone, and we feed that, we fuel that with those turnovers. So that’s what I mean by that.

I'm curious if people think any different coach would game plan different against teams that clog the neutral zone? Put pucks behind them. How does TOR play against these teams? Do they carry it in more times than not? I was watching some game highlights of TOR v MTL (again another clog it up team) and it was mostly when they already have gained possession in offensive zone. I did see a few goals where TOR did gain the blue line and not put it deep. MTL by the way scores their goals off counters. Though TOR is carrying the play. How does TOR defend? I'm genuinely curious and not wanting this to come across as some critique.


CGY needs to be able to break out better. It has to be more creative and clean. There is too much getting hemmed in by giving opponents space. It leads to zone time and they are finding areas to get multiple shots before CGY gets one. CGY is on it's heels. Kill plays fast. It sounds crazy but last game there was some better play despite the end result.

Watching some highlights from 18-19 they scored a lot of goals where the goalie had to move laterally. The PP had lots of motion and created lots of momentum.

[DeluxeMoustache]

^ I agree and it seems Calgary’s attempt to counter a clogged neutral zone if they choose to carry is to pick the strong side and flood it. They get closed on and nobody is giving the weak side support. But the coaches are asking for dump and chase. Which is tough when a lot of guys are not particularly fast or big. They are trying to find a simple solution to a (relatively) complex problem.

Reminds me of the time Brent said ‘we’re not the kind of team that’s going to score off the rush’

Coach is not smart enough for the challenges of his job. Upgrade time

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

What made the players play for Ward last summer that has changed all of a sudden less than 1 month into this season?

?

The Flames were grossly outplayed in the Dallas series.

The Jets were missing their top two centers in Little and Scheifele. Take out any opponent's top two line centers and you can get away with not having a competent head coach.

My question to you is: what made Ward coach so differently in that qualifier round that has changed all of a sudden less than 1 month into this season? Was Bennett randomly benched or scratched or moved to wing in that series? Were Robinson, Rinaldo, Reider and Jankowski randomly promoted to the top line?

[timbit]

The coaches are asking for SMART decisions at the opposition BL.

Take time and space by carrying puck into the zone or recover puck by putting puck in a place that you are recovering puck or limiting opposition time and space.

It’s not football, where you start from a static moment.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by timbit

The coaches are asking for SMART decisions at the opposition BL.

Take time and space by carrying puck into the zone or recover puck by putting puck in a place that you are recovering puck or limiting opposition time and space.

It’s not football, where you start from a static moment.

Too late. You have often exhausted your options by the time you get to the other blue line. That’s the point. It happens too often to the Flames

One of my beliefs is that under pressure, you sink to the level of your preparation.

[timbit]

Semantics...between the center ice line and blue line.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by timbit

Semantics...between the center ice line and blue line.

I don’t think it’s semantics, or basically I don’t agree with what you are saying. It’s the speed, the space you are playing in, the options you give yourself and the 5th man.

Detroit kicked ass way back because all 5 skaters knew where to be and the onus was on them to be there to receive the pass. Sure speeds up decision making if you have the puck, no?

[timbit]

WTF are you trying to pretend?

The fifth man?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by timbit

WTF are you trying to pretend?

The fifth man?

Who’s pretending?

Example can be weak side D placing himself in the open ice.

Never mind. Let’s say you are right. If the players just play prouder then they don’t need a game plan. Congrats

[timbit]

I explained to you what every single team in the NHL are coached in the NZ as they approach the opposition BL.

Width and depth, are absolutely important.

Player decisions , obviously, are the difference.

Do you really believe anything different?

It’s not a static game.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by timbit

I explained to you what every single team in the NHL are coached in the NZ as they approach the opposition BL.

Width and depth, are absolutely important.

Player decisions , obviously, are the difference.

Do you really believe anything different?

It’s not a static game.

Sorry, please direct me to this explanation. And how you know the manner in which every team is coached to make decisions. Sounds fascinating and I’m not being facetious.

For now I have no more time tonight, so will direct you to Mallory’s playbook which analyzes the recent game where WPG outshot CGY 46-18. It’s current, topical, relevant, and in that game he captured a lot of gripes I have with the Flames.

They sorely miss Brodie, way more than people appreciate, and their coaches are to the point of being counterproductive

https://jmalloryhockey.substack.com/...used-cgy-needs

[timbit]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Sorry, please direct me to this explanation. And how you know the manner in which every team is coached to make decisions. Sounds fascinating and I’m not being facetious.

For now I have no more time tonight, so will direct you to Mallory’s playbook which analyzes the recent game where WPG outshot CGY 46-18. It’s current, topical, relevant, and in that game he captured a lot of gripes I have with the Flames.

They sorely miss Brodie, way more than people appreciate, and their coaches are to the point of being counterproductive

https://jmalloryhockey.substack.com/...used-cgy-needs

I shared my opinion.

Mallory? Takes his opinion over mine, if you wish.

IMO, Tanev has more than replaced Brodie.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by timbit

I shared my opinion.

Mallory? Takes his opinion over mine, if you wish.

IMO, Tanev has more than replaced Brodie.

I appreciate your opinion and the good discourse

I love the Tanev acquisition. He has improved leaps and bounds on what Hamonic was (or was supposed to be). Does not skate like Brodie (or elevate Gio to Norris )

Mallory gave a good analysis which I ran in to - somebody directed me there - and it resonated. Has saved me some time in trying to talk to people about things that chap my ass about Ward’s team.

So many people are frustrated and can’t pinpoint the root causes. I think it’s rooted in a flawed approach to countering the trap, and his examples dovetail there

Detroit a long time ago, circa Russian 5 with Yzerman was the standard for me in being aware of where teammates are in many given situations.

[Saqe]

Good players can't overcome bad coaching


-B. Belichick


Having said that when you try four different guys and the results are the same, it's hard not to blame the players.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I appreciate your opinion and the good discourse

I love the Tanev acquisition. He has improved leaps and bounds on what Hamonic was (or was supposed to be). Does not skate like Brodie (or elevate Gio to Norris )

Mallory gave a good analysis which I ran in to - somebody directed me there - and it resonated. Has saved me some time in trying to talk to people about things that chap my ass about Ward’s team.

So many people are frustrated and can’t pinpoint the root causes. I think it’s rooted in a flawed approach to countering the trap, and his examples dovetail there

Detroit a long time ago, circa Russian 5 with Yzerman was the standard for me in being aware of where teammates are in many given situations.

Before the 2 line pass was allowed....?

Very antiquated. Sleep well!

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by timbit

Before the 2 line pass was allowed....?

Very antiquated. Sleep well!

Cute. What you said is silly and I should hope you are aware

You do realize that coaches use strategies, right?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Good players can't overcome bad coaching


-B. Belichick


Having said that when you try four different guys and the results are the same, it's hard not to blame the players.

Good quote. And here, the results are not the same.

This GM has hired 3. There is very little argument in favour of any of those three as good, much less excellent

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Detroit a long time ago, circa Russian 5 with Yzerman was the standard for me in being aware of where teammates are in many given situations.

One of the Babcock years I watched DET take on Bouchard's TBL and 1-3-1. DET came up 3 guys across the back 1 F way up to keep TBL occupied and the other F more intermediate. DET just outnumbered the 1-3-1 as the gained ice right into the offensize zone. It was great to watch. Hudler was on that team.

[djsFlames]

If you don't have an answer to neutral zone clogging teams you probably shouldn't be behind the bench.

Simply put it should not be that easy to counter our system.

And if its so effective why aren't we doing the same thing to other teams. I see us constantly give up the blue line before challenging the carrier.

Wish I understood systems and coaching more than I do. All I know is I'm sick of watching the Flames break like water on rock trying to move the puck up ice.

We need to stop hiring these rookies, promoting associate coaches and taking on lifetime AHL/Junior guys.

[1qqaaz]

Boomer said this morning that if Ward is fired, he is quite sure that Edwards/Huska would step in as head coach. The team would not bring someone from the outside in.