[News Roundup] Garbage bag day: Monahan had 4 surgeries!

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Feaster' impact was getting rid of aging stars and creating a lottery team. I guess that's something. I think Treliving has added more positive players in the last few years. I also think he's had much more of a plan in place. He's made some errors in executing that plan, in goal and in getting secondary scoring for example. But he knew what he wanted to do. His player choices didn't pan out in a few instances.

Feaster had a home run late round pick. He also made a couple really bad trades that set back the rebuilding not adding good enough assets.

You've repeated that you do t have confidence but you really don't distinguish between what Treliving has and hasn't done versus his predecessors, other than in very vague terms.

No I haven’t repeated that, it’s the first time I said it. Maybe you are confusing me with someone else. I said a few other things in post 531.

I don’t blame Feaster as much as some do for the Iggy return, obviously Iggy chose his destination and that tied his hands.

Treliving has made some good moves and some bad moves for sure.

The goalie issue as you note was very bad. It created a distraction and a practical problem for the coach executing practices.

His coaching hire stinks in my eyes.

Feaster had an identity involving speed, hockey IQ and work ethic that had teeth as it was reinforced by decisions like Jooris. These things vanished under Tre and have not been replaced.

Again, something as simple and silly as going from ‘always earned never given’ to ‘It’s go time’ moves from a substantial actionable mantra to Izzy Mandelbaum.

It started when he could not re-sign departing Cammalleri, and he said that he signed Mason Raymond as a NHLer was required in that slot.

His latest move was Chris Stewart - getting this guy in the first place and then having a coach who would actually start him on the top line rewards precisely nobody on the team or in the stands.

The team has prospects that look good on paper, I like the D drafting so far, but the on ice product, which matters, was a disaster and with a far better roster than Hartley had, played an uninspired brand of hockey that was so bad it has a lot of long time die hard fans that have stopped watching. Really, the bottom should have been in the past, as his job was to build after Feaster did the dirty work.

His professional scouting results look poor, and his hand picked coach is seeing significant performance hits on existing assets, which one could argue devalues them, and constitutes poor asset management.

Just a few unstructured remarks off the top of my head.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Meh, that’s nitpicking.

I thought they were looking good under Keenan but a D decimated by injuries and many broken bones limited them to 6 games in the first round.

They didn’t end up with playoff success but they were a perennial playoff team for a few consecutive years.

Sutter in his first 4 years took a non playoff team and made the playoffs 4 out of 4 times. Tre has shown no tangible on ice step change, he is stuck in bubble team mode, and a sorely disappointing year.

And the first year he made the playoffs and won a round was Feaster’s team.

The Flames were the best team in the NHL under Keenan for months until they ran out of bodies and cap space.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

No I haven’t repeated that, it’s the first time I said it. Maybe you are confusing me with someone else. I said a few other things in post 531.

I don’t blame Feaster as much as some do for the Iggy return, obviously Iggy chose his destination and that tied his hands.

Treliving has made some good moves and some bad moves for sure.

The goalie issue as you note was very bad. It created a distraction and a practical problem for the coach executing practices.

His coaching hire stinks in my eyes.

Feaster had an identity involving speed, hockey IQ and work ethic that had teeth as it was reinforced by decisions like Jooris. These things vanished under Tre and have not been replaced.

Again, something as simple and silly as going from ‘always earned never given’ to ‘It’s go time’ moves from a substantial actionable mantra to Izzy Mandelbaum.

It started when he could not re-sign departing Cammalleri, and he said that he signed Mason Raymond as a NHLer was required in that slot.

His latest move was Chris Stewart - getting this guy in the first place and then having a coach who would actually start him on the top line rewards precisely nobody on the team or in the stands.

The team has prospects that look good on paper, I like the D drafting so far, but the on ice product, which matters, was a disaster and with a far better roster than Hartley had, played an uninspired brand of hockey that was so bad it has a lot of long time die hard fans that have stopped watching. Really, the bottom should have been in the past, as his job was to build after Feaster did the dirty work.

His professional scouting results look poor, and his hand picked coach is seeing significant performance hits on existing assets, which one could argue devalues them, and constitutes poor asset management.

Just a few unstructured remarks off the top of my head.

I indeed was combining your posts and Angelino's. As to the rest, I can't agree at all about what Feaster's team identity was. Speed, hockey IQ and work ethic? Jooris had speed. He had work ethic for half a season. Feaster also acquired: Jones for Tanguay; a 5th for Comeau (who at least has speed and is still playing hockey); Akim Aliu (no speed, IQ or work ethic); Blair Jones, Dennis Wideman; Chris Butler; Freddie Modin. He drafted Sven (not really fast, not really hard working and with questionable IQ), Poirier, Seiloff, Brossoit, Klimchuk, Rafikov, Culkin, Wotherspoon. Show me an "identity" in that grab bag of picks.

I would bet a sizeable amount that Iginla could have been handled better. In other words, Feaster should have gotten a commitment to go to either Boston or Pittsburgh, whichever Feaster could pull off. And then he should have gotten more out of both teams. But besides that, look at the Regher return, look at the Jaybo return, and look at what the market was for those kind of players.

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I indeed was combining your posts and Angelino's. As to the rest, I can't agree at all about what Feaster's team identity was. Speed, hockey IQ and work ethic? Jooris had speed. He had work ethic for half a season. Feaster also acquired: Jones for Tanguay; a 5th for Comeau (who at least has speed and is still playing hockey); Akim Aliu (no speed, IQ or work ethic); Blair Jones, Dennis Wideman; Chris Butler; Freddie Modin. He drafted Sven (not really fast, not really hard working and with questionable IQ), Poirier, Seiloff, Brossoit, Klimchuk, Rafikov, Culkin, Wotherspoon. Show me an "identity" in that grab bag of picks.

I would bet a sizeable amount that Iginla could have been handled better. In other words, Feaster should have gotten a commitment to go to either Boston or Pittsburgh, whichever Feaster could pull off. And then he should have gotten more out of both teams. But besides that, look at the Regher return, look at the Jaybo return, and look at what the market was for those kind of players.

Feaster drafted Gaudreau. Name another gm that's drafted a more impactful player for the flames in the last 20 years. The face of our franchise.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

Feaster drafted Gaudreau. Name another gm that's drafted a more impactful player for the flames in the last 20 years. The face of our franchise.

It is my opinion that the GM has limited role in drafting in today's NHL

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

It is my opinion that the GM has limited role in drafting in today's NHL

In the selection of individual players, yes, but I do believe that the GM still issues the mandate for scouts when it comes to finding the right players for building a championship team.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

Feaster drafted Gaudreau. Name another gm that's drafted a more impactful player for the flames in the last 20 years. The face of our franchise.

Yeah, he hit a fourth round home run, which according to Feaster, was a Tod Button call. He also got the best player in the 2012 draft (OK he didn't but he said he did -what he really got was a guy he could have gotten in the second round and traded down to do it. But we got Seiloff, too).

Sutter acquired Kipper for peanuts. That's been the biggest acquisition in the last 20 years, IMO.

Treliving drafted Tkachuk (who might just be a more impactful player than Gaudreau when it's all done), Andersson, Valimaki, Parsons, Dube, Kylington, and Fox, so we'll see.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Yeah, he hit a fourth round home run, which according to Feaster, was a Tod Button call. He also got the best player in the 2012 draft (OK he didn't but he said he did -what he really got was a guy he could have gotten in the second round and traded down to do it. But we got Seiloff, too)...

I don't mean to detract from your point of showing that Feaster was not a great GM, but I don't believe this. Based on what was said after the draft it seems likely that Jankowski would have gone in the first round even if the Flames had not picked him.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

It is my opinion that the GM has limited role in drafting in today's NHL

Just as the GM gets the blame (unfairly or not) for drafting Hunter Smith, he should get the credit (deserved or not) for drafting Gaudreau.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don't mean to detract from your point of showing that Feaster was not a great GM, but I don't believe this. Based on what was said after the draft it seems likely that Jankowski would have gone in the first round even if the Flames had not picked him.

I believe it has been confirmed NJ wanted him

[Fan in Exile]

Outrageous. Hasn't it already been explained to you how everything Treliving has done was the right move at the time and it is just a coincidence we are out of the playoffs with no picks in the first 3 rounds?

Clearly we who question the Flames management team that has brought us to this point are unreasonable fanatics and/or not true fans.

[Strange Brew]

Darryl made some terrible moves at the end of his tenure, no denying that. But until the on ice product actually improves, Treliving ranks behind him IMO. I believe Treliving inherited a pretty good situation. Some good young players and a free year or two of low expectations that allowed him to add draft picks.

Feaster was not a good GM and Flames were quite lucky IMO to come out of his time as GM in reasonable shape. In fact, if this team had just hit on the late 1st round picks in 2013, a lot of things would feel different around here.

[Geeoff]

I think Feaster was a bad GM with a good plan. He got nothing for Iginla and Bouwmeester and nearly handed Sean Monahan to the Avalanche. Yikes!

That being said, his heart was in the right place for all of those moves.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

Outrageous. Hasn't it already been explained to you how everything Treliving has done was the right move at the time and it is just a coincidence we are out of the playoffs with no picks in the first 3 rounds?

Clearly we who question the Flames management team that has brought us to this point are unreasonable fanatics and/or not true fans.

What's the point of posts like this? No one is saying that. Can we stop exaggerating each others points and actually have conversations?

Has anyone, literally a single person, said that EVERYTHING Tre did was the right move?

Who are you talking about and who are you talking to?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don't mean to detract from your point of showing that Feaster was not a great GM, but I don't believe this. Based on what was said after the draft it seems likely that Jankowski would have gone in the first round even if the Flames had not picked him.

Fair enough. Though a guy like Terevainen or Hertl would have eased that pain.

On Gaudreau, Feaster hadn't really heard of the guy but Button was persistent. In fairness, Feaster said "go ahead".

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

Outrageous. Hasn't it already been explained to you how everything Treliving has done was the right move at the time and it is just a coincidence we are out of the playoffs with no picks in the first 3 rounds?

Clearly we who question the Flames management team that has brought us to this point are unreasonable fanatics and/or not true fans.

This is the crap that's killing the site these days.

I happen to believe Treliving is a better general manager than Feaster or Sutter, but I certainly wouldn't line up to take credit for that bucket of slop you're painting me and the like with.

GMs are like batters in baseball. The good ones still get a lot wrong. Give me a guy that gets the big ones right more often than not and you have a good franchise.

But save me the hyperbole, it's tiresome.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

I think Feaster was a bad GM with a good plan. He got nothing for Iginla and Bouwmeester and nearly handed Sean Monahan to the Avalanche. Yikes!

That being said, his heart was in the right place for all of those moves.

The 3 first rounders for Mackinnion was the right call. Love Mony, but Mackinnion is on another level.

Edit: wait, you were probably referring to the ROR offer sheet. My bad.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Just as the GM gets the blame (unfairly or not) for drafting Hunter Smith, he should get the credit (deserved or not) for drafting Gaudreau.

Yeah, just so many legitimate ways to evaluate a GM, I don't think draft is one - for good or bad.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Darryl made some terrible moves at the end of his tenure, no denying that. But until the on ice product actually improves, Treliving ranks behind him IMO. I believe Treliving inherited a pretty good situation. Some good young players and a free year or two of low expectations that allowed him to add draft picks.

Feaster was not a good GM and Flames were quite lucky IMO to come out of his time as GM in reasonable shape. In fact, if this team had just hit on the late 1st round picks in 2013, a lot of things would feel different around here.

Sutter improved the on-ice product at the expense of the long-term asset base.
That's part of the reason the franchise continues to have to rob peter to pay paul.

And indeed his drafting was god-awful.

Consecutive years of Chucko-Pelech-Irving-Backluknd-Nemisz-Erixon

One NHLers in 6 years of first round picks.

Late 1sts are hard but you should hit on more than 1 in 6.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by 868904

The 3 first rounders for Mackinnion was the right call. Love Mony, but Mackinnion is on another level.

Kinda doubt Mackinnon would have cleared waivers...