Sam Bennett Value: Have the Flames held on TOO long? OR is he awesome?

[DeluxeMoustache]

This is one of the longest threads I have seen recycling the same opposing positions.

I hope that one day it drops off the front page.

[The Boy Wonder]

if it does a new one will replace it... do you not remember how CP treated a young Backlund?

[Oling_Roachinen]

I think the worst part about it is how Bingo holds a gun to our heads forcing us to read and post in threads we don't want to read or post in.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Unlike some fans, NHL scouts and GMs know that 21 year olds haven't hit their full potential and still have a lot of room for improvement. NHL GMs and scouts understand that development doesn't always come fast and furious and that some players have some ups and downs early in their careers.

A lot of our fans don't seem to grasp these points. Impatience rules the day.

And yet those GMs trade 21 year olds all the time. And a lot of times when they hold on to them until they're 23 they wish they would have traded them at 21.

You say it's emotion (impatience) that would prompt someone to move a Sam Bennett. I'd suggest it's emotion that could prevent a GM from making the smart move, namely the sunk cost fallacy.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by pepper24

If so then Treliving should be all over that especially without a first round pick.

At this point, I would rather roll the dice with Bennett than a mid or late 1st round pick. Unless it is a really strong draft, mid to lat 1st rounders are at least as much of a gamble as a 21 year old trying to reach his potential. Either one could flop.

Of course I have no stats to back that up, just a gut feeling.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

And yet those GMs trade 21 year olds all the time. And a lot of times when they hold on to them until they're 23 they wish they would have traded them at 21.

I'd say its pretty rare GMs move top 5 picks at that age. The list is pretty short. Off the top of my head I can think of Drouin but he had a history of contention with management. Pronger maybe? Probably should've held onto him.

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

You say it's emotion (impatience) that would prompt someone to move a Sam Bennett. I'd suggest it's emotion that could prevent a GM from making the smart move, namely the sunk cost fallacy.

People who think Bennett will get worse or stay the same seem to think we need to move him as fast as possible. I do and will continue to call that impatience. I will also call it shortsightedness. I think fans who thinks Bennett is getting worse or can never be better than what he was last year show a lack of being able to project young players. I'd argue that our hockey management does not share this belief that Bennett has plateaued or is going downhill.

I think there is a much higher chance that he continues to develop and improve. And I think it would be foolish to not give him another season under a better coach who puts him in situations to succeed instead of situations where he's almost destined to fail.

I think the "smart move" here is to keep developing Bennett and let him blossom into the player he was always projected to be, a top two line forward who plays with grit, speed, skill and tenacity. To give up on him now is certainly impatience.

[Torch]

Bennett has 88 points in the last three years.
Ferland has 84 points in the last three years.
one is 21 other is 25
People are sour because he was our highest pick.
I enjoyed his play once they moved him to the wing. Put him with jank and ? and you'll have a hard checking third line with the right coach.
I guarantee he can beat Ferlands potential by the time he turns 25

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

This is one of the longest threads I have seen recycling the same opposing positions.

I hope that one day it drops off the front page.

But you bumped it by saying that.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

But you bumped it by saying that.

Trying to kill it.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Torch

Bennett has 88 points in the last three years.
Ferland has 84 points in the last three years.
one is 21 other is 25
People are sour because he was our highest pick.
I enjoyed his play once they moved him to the wing. Put him with jank and ? and you'll have a hard checking third line with the right coach.
I guarantee he can beat Ferlands potential by the time he turns 25

What's Ferland's potential? At best he's a weakness on the top line or an adequate third liner.

The issue with the Flames is that Ferland is the "top line RW" and most want that to change. He shouldn't be a comparable or the bar for Bennett. Not if the Flames are looking at holding on to him.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

What's Ferland's potential?

Let's see, on (the game he got injured) he was on pace for 29 goals and 21 assists while having only taken seven minor penalties and logging 126 hits.

A 30G / 20A power forward with discipline. Now who wouldn't want one of those.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Torch

Bennett has 88 points in the last three years.
Ferland has 84 points in the last three years.
one is 21 other is 25
People are sour because he was our highest pick.
I enjoyed his play once they moved him to the wing. Put him with jank and ? and you'll have a hard checking third line with the right coach.
I guarantee he can beat Ferlands potential by the time he turns 25

You're damn right. A 4th overall pick should not have the same potential that a 5th round 133rd overall drafted player has, especially when that particular player was an extremely late bloomer and started playing competitive hockey relatively late compared to that 4th overall pick.

Yeah, context matters here, and I have yet to see anything that tells me Bennett will be better. Quite frankly, until this year I was certain that Ferland's ceiling was a 3rd liner, and while he had a big year, I'm not certain that he's much more than that still.

Bennett's been in the league long enough now that he needs to start showing signs of improvement. If you don't get at least a slight uptick in production/development of his game, you have to seriously consider moving him for the best possible offer.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

This is one of the longest threads I have seen recycling the same opposing positions.

I hope that one day it drops off the front page.

I dunno, as per the original post it seems there's a relative consensus that what the Flames would receive back in a trade for Bennett wouldn't be worth not having him in the lineup on the third line wing.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I think his upside is easily still worth a late 1st, maybe even a mid 1st in some years. I think his value has fallen in the eyes of impatient fans more than it has for hockey people.

Holy crap, if Bennett can return a mid first, let's do it!

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Trying to kill it.

That doesn't make any sense.

A) No once is going to post or not post because posters come along and tell everyone to stop posting. There's a lot of posters like you that try to control discussions and cry for people to stop and it never does anything.

B) You have the option of clicking or not clicking on threads.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Torch

Bennett has 88 points in the last three years.
Ferland has 84 points in the last three years.
one is 21 other is 25
People are sour because he was our highest pick.
I enjoyed his play once they moved him to the wing. Put him with jank and ? and you'll have a hard checking third line with the right coach.
I guarantee he can beat Ferlands potential by the time he turns 25

I agree. I also would wager Bennett's totals and progression as a top 6 forward would be far, far, higher if he was gifted top line mins the past 1.5 years. Thats not a slight against Ferland. I think hes performed admirably filling in for the role of top line winger.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Holy crap, if Bennett can return a mid first, let's do it!

Meh not a deal I'd be excited about. A mid first at best would typically have the upside Bennett still has. And would be likely 4-5 years away from being a solid contributor. Makes much more sense just to keep Bennett IMO. He should be turning into a solid top two line NHLer in the next year or two.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

I agree. I also would wager Bennett's totals and progression as a top 6 forward would be far, far, higher if he was gifted top line mins the past 1.5 years. Thats not a slight against Ferland. I think hes performed admirably filling in for the role of top line winger.

Bennet played 120+ minutes on the top line.
He got 2 points.
Can Bennett become a top 6 guy? Sure.
Has he shown much of anything that would indicate he is heading there? No, not to my eye.

But yeah, agree with Dis on that part. Would not be thrilled to trade him straight up for mid first round pick, at this point.

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

You're damn right. A 4th overall pick should not have the same potential that a 5th round 133rd overall drafted player has, especially when that particular player was an extremely late bloomer and started playing competitive hockey relatively late compared to that 4th overall pick.

Yeah, context matters here, and I have yet to see anything that tells me Bennett will be better. Quite frankly, until this year I was certain that Ferland's ceiling was a 3rd liner, and while he had a big year, I'm not certain that he's much more than that still.

Bennett's been in the league long enough now that he needs to start showing signs of improvement. If you don't get at least a slight uptick in production/development of his game, you have to seriously consider moving him for the best possible offer.

You are the opposite of my soul mate . You are the cool mind in every thread that I get really passionate in (e.g. coaches) and then get riled up on subjects that I have a very passive/patient attitude toward.

Bennett is pretty much the Flames team wrapped up in a player. Buried very deep under confidence issues he is a player that shows flashes of what he could be. The harder he tries, the tighter he grips the stick, the worse it looks on the ice. I don't doubt that the effort or skill is there, but much like the Flames his expectations of himself and of the fan base lead him to self destruct in the worst circumstances. What he needs is a coach that can separate him from the pressure, play to his strength and let the cards fall as they may. If he can find his game in the next 1-2 years, then much like the team, the proverbial window will open.

[calgarywinning]

Originally Posted by tkflames

You are the opposite of my soul mate . You are the cool mind in every thread that I get really passionate in (e.g. coaches) and then get riled up on subjects that I have a very passive/patient attitude toward.

Bennett is pretty much the Flames team wrapped up in a player. Buried very deep under confidence issues he is a player that shows flashes of what he could be. The harder he tries, the tighter he grips the stick, the worse it looks on the ice. I don't doubt that the effort or skill is there, but much like the Flames his expectations of himself and of the fan base lead him to self destruct in the worst circumstances. What he needs is a coach that can separate him from the pressure, play to his strength and let the cards fall as they may. If he can find his game in the next 1-2 years, then much like the team, the proverbial window will open.

Lets hope they can get him going with this change up. Nothing more is needed right now from him. When you look at his OHL stats and compare there is something mentally going on with the player which a good coach should be able to unlock.