[PGT] Golden Knights 4 - Flames 2

[Toonage]

Had some time to reflect on that. Probably going to need more time, really.

- It shouldn't have gotten to the point where Frolik's mistake mattered. Impotent powerplay meant they had to cling to that lead.
- Statistically they have been very good at protecting that lead, just not lately unfortunately.
- Brodie wasn't anticipating a pass. Smith wasn't anticipating a shot. Neither is to blame.
- Frolik made a stupid play. Period. Nothing more, nothing less.
- Fan 960 is missing the mark this morning mocking people upset at Dave Cameron. The Flames need a change but its becoming pretty clear that nothing will be done until after its too late, at the end of the season.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Had some time to reflect on that. Probably going to need more time, really.

- It shouldn't have gotten to the point where Frolik's mistake mattered. Impotent powerplay meant they had to cling to that lead.
- Statistically they have been very good at protecting that lead, just not lately unfortunately.
- Brodie wasn't anticipating a pass. Smith wasn't anticipating a shot. Neither is to blame.
- Frolik made a stupid play. Period. Nothing more, nothing less.
- Fan 960 is missing the mark this morning mocking people upset at Dave Cameron. The Flames need a change but its becoming pretty clear that nothing will be done until after its too late, at the end of the season.

This team has no draft picks to trade and few young assets other teams are interested. There's not many changes they can make to personnel that aren't going to hurt the team more in the long run. It's too late I the season to fire coaches. This is the team and situation the GM built and he's going to have to ride it to the end of the season and deal with the aftermath. A few of us here have been saying for years how badly this team needed a top line RW and the GM has done nothing about it and it's coming back to haunt this team as it's simply a team that lacks finish. Defense was not the biggest need on this team yet the GM gives up all these futures for Hamonic and it's done nothing to improve the team as they are in the same situation they were in last year. Treliving isn't Chiarelli bad but he's made too many bad moves that have offset his equally good moves and it's led to a team that's no longer improving and just treading water.

[Toonage]

I don't think its too late to make changes to the coaching staff. In particular I think a new associate coach is whats in order. Cameron is moved out and a new voice is moved in.

if the Flames want to or have to make bigger changes (ie: fire Gulutzan) then yeah, thats likely going to wait until the off season. Personally I think all coaching changes will wait until the offseason as I noted above.

As far as Treliving goes,its not like Maloney isn't sitting right there ready to takeover. This can't be lost on him.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Toonage

I don't think its too late to make changes to the coaching staff. In particular I think a new associate coach is whats in order. Cameron is moved out and a new voice is moved in.

When has that happened across the league? How many teams have made moves like this past the halfway mark of the season? Cameron isn't going anywhere until the season ends.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

When has that happened across the league? How many teams have made moves like this past the halfway mark of the season? Cameron isn't going anywhere until the season ends.

This late? Maybe never. Honestly don't know. But that doesn't mean it can't, however unlikely. There isn't a firing freeze on assistant's past January 31st. That being said you're probably right, and again, as I originally noted I agree that this probably waits until the off season.

[streetglide]

Originally Posted by zamler

I know people are going to blame Frolik but he was probably eating from a straw for awhile, just came back and played a good amount of minutes. You don't put a player in those circumstances on the ice with less than 2:00 left in the game. You just don't.

Brain dead coaching 101, PERIOD. There is no excuse for this. Gully needs to get in front of the cameras and blame himself. But he won't he'll be a chicken #### coward.

Thanks you!

Guy might have a good hockey mind but he has no idea how to manage the emotional part of the game. He says himself that he has a mentally fragile team. But not only does he not call a time or after a mistake but he puts the same line out right after!!! Like WTF?!?!

[868904]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

When has that happened across the league? How many teams have made moves like this past the halfway mark of the season? Cameron isn't going anywhere until the season ends.

They could just switch Gelinas and Cameron's roles up. It's not like the status quo is working.

[Toonage]

Silver linings? Here we go

Still only a game back of 2nd in the Pacific. There are conceivable scenarios where they take 2nd as soon as Thursday night.
Took 16 of 22 points in January

And yes, if I sound like I'm trying to convince myself its not all bad right now you're probably right.

[colbym72]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Silver linings? Here we go

Still only a game back of 2nd in the Pacific. There are conceivable scenarios where they take 2nd as soon as Thursday night.
Took 16 of 22 points in January

And yes, if I sound like I'm trying to convince myself its not all bad right now you're probably right.

No I think you are being rational honestly. Last night sucked and I am still shocked at it. But emotion aside, still a lot left to play and they are in the mix. Hopefully last night can be seen as the big wake up call for the team and it isn't a moment that leads to a crumble for the rest of the year

[GioforPM]

I gave myself over night to think and cool off before posting.

It's hard to pin this on GG. I thought the Flames played Vegas as well as anyone I've seen. They handled the vigorous forecheck well, had plenty of possession, were pretty disciplined on the holding and stickwork. And nothing in Frolik's game up until the 18 minute mark of the third said he shouldn't be out at that point.

Frolik should have yelled to Smith and/or Brodie that he was going to pass. Or he should have put it to the boards where Bordie could skate to it.

The first powerplay was quite good. The others were bad. It's a matter of effort and speed. They weren't anticipating the puck movement. They weren't putting the puck across the ice. It's so easy to defend when the puck stays on one side and only gets to the other side by going point to point. There have to be way more touches for Monahan and Tkachuk - those are the guys who are going to score by being in close. If they are just going to shoot from the outside, might as well put Brouwer back on to screen.

[Monahammer]

Brodie is just involved in WAY too many of these "mistakes" that end up costing the team games. It seems he's always directly or at least partially responsible for things going to absolute ####. Get this loser off our blueline.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Toonage

- Fan 960 is missing the mark this morning mocking people upset at Dave Cameron.

Then what is the solution?

It's quite clear that the powerplay has remained unchanged for the last 10-12 weeks and it continues to look putrid in doing so.

There is almost zero lateral movement to try and get the other team to open up and create lanes. It's not like this team is trying to force plays that aren't there... the powerplay simply isn't creating opportunities and so they take low % shots from the point and hope it bounces off a few skates and into the net. The problem is that it's so predictable and half the time the shot is simply blocked and cleared.

Not only is there no lateral movement on the powerplay, but the team just takes forever to make a play. Passes aren't quick. It's more like... pass - pause to look for a passing lane that doesn't exist - pass back - pause - take low percentage shot from the top of the circle - repeat.

It's so clearly evident that this is a strategic problem that I don't know what else to say here. The Fan 960 guys are wrong. The powerplay has looked this bad for so long because this is what they practice. Why should we expect anything to change when we keep doing the same things?

Eventually a few pucks are going to bounce off some asses and find their way into the back of the net, but that won't be evidence that anything has been solved.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Then what is the solution?

Are you asking me? Because I'm on your page. Cameron should be replaced. They seem to think he shouldn't be and mocked angry fans because (in their words) "Cameron doesn't have a 20 foot stick to stop Frolik"

Truth of the matter is, Frolik's mistake shouldn't have mattered if the PP had 1 goal.

[Otto-matic]

I'd just bring Gelinas down from the pressbox and let him work with the PP. If they won't fire Cameron.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Are you asking me? Because I'm on your page. Cameron should be replaced. They seem to think he shouldn't be and mocked angry fans because (in their words) "Cameron doesn't have a 20 foot stick to stop Frolik"

Truth of the matter is, Frolik's mistake shouldn't have mattered if the PP had 1 goal.

Sorry it was more just a reflection on what you mentioned was said on the Fan. Rhetorical more than anything.

[CroFlames]

A couple of thoughts:

• Frolik made a gaffe. All players make gaffes. His just happened to be really really bad. All 20,000 people in the arena and everyone watching could see Frolik was shaken up after that major panic mistake, except GG. Why in holy heck is Froliks line on the ice after his gaffe? He at least needed a moment to regroup; if not be sat for the remainder of regulation. Tying goal is 1000% on Frolik. Winning goal, 1000% on the coach.
• Not calling a time out didn't work. Maybe call a timeout once in a friggen while coach.
• Literally LMAO'd at people accusing Smith. He's supposed to be ready for a hard passback that the defenceman decided to let go? He reacted quickly, and the pad save was the only play he could have made. Of course the Vegas player right there will pounce on the rebound.
• The PP is atrocious and now it's become a mental thing that they need to get over. The way to get over it is to simplify the PP to the most basic structure until a puck goes in. Then build on it. It needs to be revamped.

[Gaskal]

Wonder how many more times this season Treliving's going to have the "what's going on with this team" talk with Glen. That can't be good for the future of him as the Flames coach after this year.

I think this would be #3 now, and we're like 60% of the way through.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

Wonder how many more times this season Treliving's going to have the "what's going on with this team" talk with Glen. That can't be good for the future of him as the Flames coach after this year.

I think this would be #3 now, and we're like 60% of the way through.

And thats just this season. Last year would have had several similar conversations.

[Corral]

Hard to understand how people here can shrug their shoulders when the Flames come up short against bottom feeders, but then lose their minds when the Flames lose to a top team in the league because of an obvious mistake.

Those points we let go against Buffalo and Edm would sure look good now. Parse thru those losses for reasons to blow it up, not last night's game.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Corral

Hard to understand how people here can shrug their shoulders when the Flames come up short against bottom feeders, but then lose their minds when the Flames lose to a top team in the league because of an obvious mistake.

Those points we let go against Buffalo and Edm would sure look good now. Parse thru those losses for reasons to blow it up, not last night's game.

For me it's because the team is still outplaying teams at 5v5, outside of the Buffalo game - which the frustration was justified.

What kills me though is that the problem is obvious over this last stretch - the PP is losing us games, drains momentum, and needs to be fixed.

Dec. 12 vs. MIN - PP 0-3 (SO)
Dec. 14 vs. SJ - PP 0-3 (SO)
Dec. 29 vs. ANA - PP 0-3
Jan. 22 vs. WPG - PP 0-4 (OT)
Jan. 24 vs. LAK - PP 0-5 (OT)
Jan. 25 vs. EDM - PP 0-4 (SO)
Jan. 30 vs. VGK - PP 0-3 (Last minute collapse)

Over the last 2 months we are now up to 7 1-Goal games (excluding empty netters), all against western conference teams , and we went a combined 0-25 on the PP in those games.

If our team had even an average 20% clip that is 5 more goals. That likely means 5 more wins, and at least 5 more points for the Flames and 5-10 fewer points for our direct competitors.

Over that same 20 game stretch (Dec 12 - Now) Flames are 9-5-6 with a PP% of 13.2%. Have given up the 2nd fewest GPG in the league in that stretch but can't win or close out games because of our PP.

The PP over this stretch has accounted for a what is likely a 5-10 point swing in the standings, and is the difference from us being 2nd in the division vs 5th.

Honestly if firing a coach or the coaching is staff is required to turn around the PP at this point then it needs to be done. While the coaches have changed some of the players on the PP, they haven't touched the system, and that is unjustifiable at this point.