Location: Wondering when # became hashtag and not a number sign.
Exp:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle
I think you'd have a hard time hiding that many guns in a suite from the maids for that many days. The only way I could think of would have been to bring all the weapons up the day previous using multiple trips and then hanging the "Do not Disturb" sign on the door.
I dunno...from what i saw in the pictures, there was all kinds of cabinetry and closets etc.
Maids would really only go in and change bedding and clean the kitchen/bathroom and have no need to open drawers etc.
He also could have left everything in the suitcases until the last day.
You'd have to show that what the standard should have been and whether that breach of the standard actually resulting in the shooting.
In a state where gun laws are lax and it's not typical to search suitcases going into hotels, I think it'd be a tough case. How do you stop someone from bringing in a weapon into one of your rooms via suitcase and unloading it on people below? If someone did the same thing in a restaurant, would you blame the restaurant. Vegas hotels are also very different than regular hotels in that they are very open to the public. Tens of thousands of people are going in and out every day. It'd be impossible to search them all while maintaining the current concept of a Vegas hotel.
It'll be another issue entirely if new facts come out showing the hotel should have been suspicious or was tipped off or if there was something specific about the hotel/rooms, which delayed stopping the shooting.
I guess you could also make a case against the venue for putting the concert in a place that was overlooked by hotel rooms. Once again, that's a tough case to make in Las Vegas.
I've only worked on one file involving a Las Vegas plaintiff, and from what I saw the courts/juries were not very receptive of personal injury cases in general. Most libertarian places tend not to be.
Edit: I also don't know enough about metal detectors to know if you could rig them in a way to go off when a suitcase full of weapons comes in, but not go off when someone with a belt buckle walks in.
You could make the case that all the hotels should have worked out a cost sharing deal with city/state to have SWAT teams close by. Once again, not sure if that's feasible or would have even preventing the shooting. Based on the timeline, it sounds like the shooter stopped shooting relatively quickly, and there was a sizeable gap between then and when the SWAT team entered. So having the SWAT team closer may not have helped.
Last edited by blankall; 10-06-2017 at 02:14 PM.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to blankall For This Useful Post:
Wait for the investigation to conclude. This is all still assumption. For all anyone knows, he could be a case like Charles Whitman where it's now fairly widely accepted a brain tumour had a significant role in his shooting. It's premature to conclude anything.
There's no evidence that Paddock was mentally ill. And no reason to believe he was, aside from the desire to believe sane people can't do awful things. And the theory that Whitman's rampage was caused by a tumour is not 'widely accepted.' It's largely discredited speculation.
While improving access to mental-health care might help lots of suffering Americans, researchers who study mass shootings doubt it would do much to curb tragedies like these. According to their work, the sorts of individuals who commit mass murder often are either not mentally ill or do not recognize themselves as such. Because they blame the outside world for their problems, mass murderers would likely resist therapies that ask them to look inside themselves or to change their behavior...
...As Northeastern University criminologist James Alan Fox has written, in a database of indiscriminate mass shootings—defined as those with four or more victims—compiled by the Stanford Geospatial Center, just 15 percent of the assailants had a psychotic disorder, and 11 percent had paranoid schizophrenia.
- the Atlantic
It's difficult to accept, but sane people can deliberately do horrendous things.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
Last edited by CliffFletcher; 10-06-2017 at 02:27 PM.
I dunno...from what i saw in the pictures, there was all kinds of cabinetry and closets etc.
Maids would really only go in and change bedding and clean the kitchen/bathroom and have no need to open drawers etc.
He also could have left everything in the suitcases until the last day.
In my previous job I travelled a lot for work and would often stay 7- 9- days at a time. I would use the do not disturb sign for many days straight as I do not need housekeeping wasting their time making my bed everyday folding towels etc... ONE time and I don't remember where (Conklin Ramada?) there was a not stating that even though I had my do not disturd sign on the door, they check the room every 72(?) hours to ensure their guests safety. So simply using a do not disturb sign would keep the housekeeping from entering at all.
__________________
The only thing better then a glass of beer is tea with Ms McGill
He did. That's the point. SWAT didn't respond for over an hour after the first shots were fired, and then about 45 minutes after the last shots were heard from the room. He could have got away clean. I don't know why LVPD has received accolades for their part because their response was brutal.
Sigh...LVPD received accolades because of their heroism in removing as many citizens as possible from an active shooter, as well as confronting the same active shooter in his stronghold.
Your criticism of SWAT is misguided. I can guarantee you, that minutes after the shooting began, SWAT was activated. In a situation such as that, they would still need to group the team who would likely be roving all over the city if they are a full time team which I'm assuming they are. Then they would quickly gather intel from the hotel/security/general duty police officers to determine what they were dealing with (number of assailants, location, weapons, whether the stronghold is barricaded or not, etc). With that information they then formulate their plan of action. Deploy the team and arrive at the stronghold. They deploy their breachers and use explosive forced entry to gain access to the room. The assaulters enter and find the guy down. All this takes time and quite frankly 45 minutes from beginning of incident to the time they arrive at the room may sound like a long time but given the chaos and unique situation it's really not.
The Following User Says Thank You to Zulu29 For This Useful Post:
With that information they then formulate their plan of action.
This is a big part of it. I don't think a lot of people seem to realize the differences in the plan of action for someone actively shooting into/at a crowd and someone not shooting into a crowd, but who's barricaded themselves into a space and has weapons.
They are two very different response patterns.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to WhiteTiger For This Useful Post:
Sigh...LVPD received accolades because of their heroism in removing as many citizens as possible from an active shooter, as well as confronting the same active shooter in his stronghold.
Your criticism of SWAT is misguided. I can guarantee you, that minutes after the shooting began, SWAT was activated. In a situation such as that, they would still need to group the team who would likely be roving all over the city if they are a full time team which I'm assuming they are. Then they would quickly gather intel from the hotel/security/general duty police officers to determine what they were dealing with (number of assailants, location, weapons, whether the stronghold is barricaded or not, etc). With that information they then formulate their plan of action. Deploy the team and arrive at the stronghold. They deploy their breachers and use explosive forced entry to gain access to the room. The assaulters enter and find the guy down. All this takes time and quite frankly 45 minutes from beginning of incident to the time they arrive at the room may sound like a long time but given the chaos and unique situation it's really not.
Believe what you like. I have this from law enforcement on the ground in the middle of the incident. It was a cluster #### from the word go. Not a completely unexpected outcome based on events, but the response was poor. But that's okay. Law enforcement can screw up too, especially under incredible pressure. That's part of the problem that people have with their perceptions of cops. They think they are infallible super heroes when most of them are just average to below-average Joes forced into ridiculous situations that no could be prepared for. They do an incredible job and get shat on for it for the most part. But it is okay to say when they could have done better. You know, just like the government could have responded better to Puerto Rico in the aftermath of the hurricane. It was not all sunshine and rainbows. The only thing that prevented more carnage was the shooter blowing his own brains out, not the action of the police or SWAT.
He did. That's the point. SWAT didn't respond for over an hour after the first shots were fired, and then about 45 minutes after the last shots were heard from the room. He could have got away clean. I don't know why LVPD has received accolades for their part because their response was brutal.
I believe the Police were there fairly quick (10-15 min?). He then fired at them, and they backed off and waited for SWAT.
Pretty sure he couldnt have "got away clean." as even though the police waited to breach, i am sure they never just went back down to the Lobby to wait. I am pretty sure that door was being watched.
Your whole post is pretty bad
The Following User Says Thank You to stang For This Useful Post:
Believe what you like. I have this from law enforcement on the ground in the middle of the incident. It was a cluster #### from the word go. Not a completely unexpected outcome based on events, but the response was poor. But that's okay. Law enforcement can screw up too, especially under incredible pressure. That's part of the problem that people have with their perceptions of cops. They think they are infallible super heroes when most of them are just average to below-average Joes forced into ridiculous situations that no could be prepared for. They do an incredible job and get shat on for it for the most part. But it is okay to say when they could have done better. You know, just like the government could have responded better to Puerto Rico in the aftermath of the hurricane. It was not all sunshine and rainbows. The only thing that prevented more carnage was the shooter blowing his own brains out, not the action of the police or SWAT.
I'm not sure why you're raging.
The police responded in how many minutes, 15? We're shot at, backed off an kept watch. At that time he stopped shooting at the crowd, correct?
So from the time police first engaged him no more shots were fired at the crowd. Perhaps maybe they took their time because a) they were shot at and b) he was no longer shooting at the crowd? I'm willing to be their response would have been a little different had he kept shooting at the crowd after they first engaged him.
The police responded in how many minutes, 15? We're shot at, backed off an kept watch. At that time he stopped shooting at the crowd, correct?
So from the time police first engaged him no more shots were fired at the crowd. Perhaps maybe they took their time because a) they were shot at and b) he was no longer shooting at the crowd? I'm willing to be their response would have been a little different had he kept shooting at the crowd after they first engaged him.
No doubt in my mind that he shot himself because of the intial response by police and hotel security. So you then go from an active shooter to an armed and barricaded. Completely changes the response. As distasteful as it may sound you still have to give the guy the option to surrender if he’s stopped shooting. You can’t just breach the door and execute him because of what he’s done.
Whose raging? I'm just stating that the facts are a little different than the stuff posted in the media. President numb nuts lauded the police service for a job well done and that has been the narrative ever since. The facts are just a little different from what has come out so far.
Whose raging? I'm just stating that the facts are a little different than the stuff posted in the media. President numb nuts lauded the police service for a job well done and that has been the narrative ever since. The facts are just a little different from what has come out so far.
I’d be curious to hear what would qualify as a job well done under the horrific circumstances. What would you rather have seen done?
Police were one floor down (31st) within 7 minutes. By the time they reached the 32nd floor, he had stopped shooting at the crowd and had shot a security guard. He may have been already dead at 10:18pm.
I’d be curious to hear what would qualify as a job well done under the horrific circumstances. What would you rather have seen done?
Won’t speak to the hotel operations, but based the rest of the event could have had better crowd control, better communication on site, better communication with casinos, better control of roads in and out for first responders, especially quicker establishment of operational control over the site based on existing infrastructure. This is a no win situation as you don’t train for an event anything like this. You can only go on similar events and hope similar plans apply.
