Did Kris Russell overplay his hand in free agency?

[Toonage]

During the Haynes interview this morning, he mentioned that veteran depth was important to the Flames, so yeah I could see them risking losing Wotherspoon to bring in someone like Russell. Personally, I still don't think it will happen.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by nik-

Yeah, I'm not keen on bringing Russell back at all at this point to be honest.

He doesn't belong on the second pairing, and we can move youth onto the bottom pairing.

Especially as Nakladal is better and cheaper

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Robbob

I'm getting the sense that the organization isn't high on Wotherspoon at all. Maybe they see Russell as the stop gap with Kylington taking over next year. Only thing that would make this better is if we signed Russell and traded him again at the deadline.

Maybe. Hartley wasn't a fan but a new coaching staff provides a fresh start for all the players that were in the dog house. It's really important that he has a good training camp as if he doesn't he likely goes on waivers.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

If he signs back here . . . . That Dallas trade has to be one of the most lopsided trades in NHL history.

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

The fact that we got those three, plus possibly Russell back, and Dallas has nothing to show for it means we are in pole position for the win.

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

For the win? I agree

For the most lopsided trade in NHL history? A long ways to go before that statement can/should be made IMO

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I don't really differentiate the two in this scenario. But that's cool, to each their own.

What are you even saying? The most lopsided trade in history and a trade that the flames won are one in the same? I feel like you're just throwing words at the screen after making a weird statement, lol.

[shadowlord]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

If he signs back here . . . . That Dallas trade has to be one of the most lopsided trades in NHL history.

Regardless of the where you fall on the lopsidedness of this trade, imagine if were Hamhuis & the Canucks.

Hamhuis for post-season 2016 for Kevin, Pollack, draft pick + Hamhuis. Instead, they got: Hamhuis for their non-existent 2016 post-season.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by jayswin

What are you even saying? The most lopsided trade in history and a trade that the flames won are one in the same? I feel like you're just throwing words at the screen after making a weird statement, lol.

lol

[TheoFleury]

The most lopsided trade in NHL history will always be the Gretzky trade IMO. I know money was involved and some good prospects at the time but egads, we're talking about the greatest player ever to play the game here.

The Lindros trade is #2, mostly because I guess no one knew how good Forsberg really was. It was kind of a hindsight thing though because everybody was looking to blow their brains out over him.

The Russell trade was a pretty standard rental player trade at the TDL. Unless you are of the opinion that Russell is one of the worst defensemen in hockey, I don't understand the opinion that it was that lopsided. I'm not as much of Russell hater as some, I see him a decent 4/5/6 guy depending on the team, and those guys are ALWAYS in demand at the TDL. Besides, the Flames got three reasonable assets but nothing mind blowing. The Stars won't miss Jokipakka, Pollock or the pick in any way, shape or form.

[Table 5]

Perhaps not of all time, but the Forsberg for Erat/Latta trade is hard to beat in recent times.

[foshizzle11]

I don't want Russell back, I want one of our youngsters to make the big club this year. If Russell was a good defensemen he would have been signed by now by another team?

Don't do it BT.

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Perhaps not of all time, but the Forsberg for Erat/Latta trade is hard to beat in recent times.

McDonough (Sp?) for Gomez is up there with it though not as recent.

[Locke]

Forgive me, but is caring about Wotherspoon a thing that we're doing now?

I have no idea what to think of Wotherspoon. Has he gotten a fair shake? Do we care? If he hasnt gotten a shot in what seems like forever isnt that basically the decision?

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by Locke

Forgive me, but is caring about Wotherspoon a thing that we're doing now?

Wotherspoon needs to show that he cares, before I start caring about whether or not there's a spot for him.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Wotherspoon needs to show that he cares, before I start caring about whether or not there's a spot for him.

I've never seen evidence that Wotherspoon doesnt care. For that matter I've never seen evidence that Wotherspoon does indeed care.

As a matter of fact, has he ever done anything worth noticing?

Not being noticed is not necessarily a bad thing when it comes to defencemen.

[Flash Walken]

Wotherspoon hasn't shown he is a player yet, put me in the column that doesn't understand why the team should be looking for him to play minutes for the big club this year.

If Wotherspoon is going to be the first callup I hope the team is looking to sign nakladal to a 1 way because the team might be in for a world of trouble with a couple of injuries on their hands.

There should be a couple of players between Wotherspoon and the NHL based on what we've seen from him thus far.

[TSXCman]

It's funny how much people think in the extremes! Kris Russell is a bad defenseman?? No, he is having a hard time getting signed, but he is in a place where he doesn't hold much leverage but would still like some control of where he goes and for how much.

He is good #4 Dman with some strong defensive awareness and shot blocking obviously. He will end up somewhere, hopefully better than Edmonton too.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Wotherspoon hasn't shown he is a player yet, put me in the column that doesn't understand why the team should be looking for him to play minutes for the big club this year.

If Wotherspoon is going to be the first callup I hope the team is looking to sign nakladal to a 1 way because the team might be in for a world of trouble with a couple of injuries on their hands.

There should be a couple of players between Wotherspoon and the NHL based on what we've seen from him thus far.

There are times I honestly cant believe hes even still with the team. I hear his name and think:

"Is he still around? How? Why?"

Hes like the 'Sidler' from Seinfeld.



Yeah, you're here, but what have you done? Why are you always carrying Tic-Tacs?

[MBates]

Originally Posted by TSXCman

It's funny how much people think in the extremes! Kris Russell is a bad defenseman?? No, he is having a hard time getting signed, but he is in a place where he doesn't hold much leverage but would still like some control of where he goes and for how much.

He is good #4 Dman with some strong defensive awareness and shot blocking obviously. He will end up somewhere, hopefully better than Edmonton too.

I cannot figure out how people are prepared to trash Russell as being such a 'bad' (or insert other derogatory term here) hockey player. The guy made an NHL roster in his first try at age 20 after two World Junior golds, two WHL Defenceman of the Year awards, a WHL Player of the Year and a CHL Defenceman of the Year award.

As a pro he has played 29 games not in the NHL, 15 of which are in Europe during an NHL lockout (so those don't really count) and 14 in the AHL in his second year as a pro.

In 2010 and 2012 he played for Canada at the World Championship.

He only needs 27 games to hit 600 in the NHL.

If we cut the inexplicable trashing, Kris Russell is a phenomenal hockey player who has never stopped giving every ounce of his being when he plays since he was cut from Red Deer Midget AAA because he was supposedly too small for that league.

An NHL GM absolutely needs to approach a Russell contract carefully, and because of his size there will always be some additional questions about where he can be most effective. At any given time I think he is and always has been on the verge of his last NHL contract, while at the same time, he is also potentially on the verge of his best showing in the league.

I know technically this is the case for any player, but I think high potential and high risk of not meeting that potential in any given year is why there seems to be such a disconnect for Russell. It is because he is such an incredible hockey player that he nets a huge return at trade deadline and gets speculation of a UFA 5 x 5 contract as a 'given', all while his fancy stats look bad and he is only a few seasons removed from having cleared waivers.

The appropriate dollar value and term for what he can accomplish in today's NHL given his size and current age are completely legitimate things to debate. But people who call him a bad hockey player do not know much about the game of hockey or the quality of hockey players.

It is just as likely under a new coach and different system that Russell could have a career year as it is that he would make you regret having signed him.

I can understand people wanting to move on and not revisit him on the Flames roster but not on the basis that he is not a good player.

[GioforPM]

I think for the most part people who criticized Russell gave reasons. A lot are fancy stat based, a lot are based on what his viewable flaws are.

His pros are that he blocks, he skates well, he has heart. His cons are that he loses possession or has trouble getting possession in the first place, and has trouble getting the puck out of his end.

He's a 5-6 guy IMO. If he gets signed at 5-6 money, fine. But this also takes up a spot that could go to a developing guy.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I think for the most part people who criticized Russell gave reasons. A lot are fancy stat based, a lot are based on what his viewable flaws are.

His pros are that he blocks, he skates well, he has heart. His cons are that he loses possession or has trouble getting possession in the first place, and has trouble getting the puck out of his end.

He's a 5-6 guy IMO. If he gets signed at 5-6 money, fine. But this also takes up a spot that could go to a developing guy.

Pretty much.

Russell isnt garbage, he isnt terrible. He has his uses, but they are specific.

He most certainly is not garbage, he is a good NHL defenceman. He is not a great NHL defenceman.

If hes playing on your bottom pairing hes overqualified, mid-pairing? Good and solid. Top pairing? You're in trouble.

The problem arises from adequately compensating players for their contributions. You cant have mid to bottom pairing guys making first pairing money.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I, for one, am interested to see what Russell is like in a new system. Remember that Dallas uses the same system as Calgary.

Russell is a mobile puck-mover. Hartley's system relied on a more passive zone approach, and shot-blocking became an important part of that system. Gulutzan wants (or at least, from what I gather) to have the defencemen provide pressure on the puck carriers. More pressure on the opposition's zone entries, and more sustained pressure while they are in the zone. Though Russell became the NHL's premier shot blocker, I do think that with his stick and his skating ability, he may end up becoming more reliable in the defensive end.

What I don't like about his game - the ONLY thing I don't like - is that due to his stature, he often has a lot of trouble containing some of the large and talented opposing forwards. Getzlaf, Thornton, Burns, etc. I mean, all NHL defencemen have trouble containing these guys, but an undersized Russell even more so. That is essentially my only complaint.

He is a leader and is one of those 'heart and soul' players. I do think that he is good for the dressing room, good for the team, and is probably a better option to have than anyone the Flames currently have at their disposal.

However, I do think that Wotherspoon is ready for #6 minutes - though you would have to shelter him somewhat at first. Russell is definitely an upgrade today, but it comes with what I presume would be at least a 2 million cap hit - likely more (and maybe much more? No idea). Wotherspoon is cheap. Kulak isn't waiver eligible, but I think he is NHL-ready for somewhat sheltered #6 minutes.

Yep, bigger cap hit, but without question a more reliable defencemen for the Flames, as well as bringing in some leadership. Trade-off is increased cap hit on a team that is dangerously close to the cap (at least after the Gaudreau signing).

Wotherspoon, Kulak, Morrison, Kylington, Andersson, Hickey - the first 3 are the guys that are approaching 'NHL readiness' (though more debateable with Morrison). You aren't going to fit all these defencemen on the team. Some are going to slip through, some won't develop, and some won't develop fast enough. Maybe Wotherspoon didn't develop fast enough. Kulak is coming up. I haven't mentioned Culkin - he was on the cusp before his injury.

Losing Wotherspoon in the grand scheme of things isn't a big issue. He could end up being a reliable bottom-pairing guy - but those guys are usually available as UFAs anyways. He could end up being more - could be a reliable top 4 guy at some point.

I would bank that the Flames just don't have the room beyond this season for a Wotherspoon, and maybe not for a Culkin, Kulak and Morrison either.

Giordano - Brodie
Hamilton - X
X - Russell*

*If Russell ends up having a multi-year deal.

On paper, you do have room for them, but I don't think so. Those 'lower ceiling' guys all max out as top 4 defencemen (if things go right). After the expansion draft happens, I actually think that Treliving will be on the lookout for a solid partner for Hamilton on the 2nd pairing. In the long-term, you have Kylington, Andersson and Hickey looking as the best 'bets' for one of them developing far enough to fit that spot.

That leaves one spot open. If you have Russell, I want a 'Deryk Engelland' next to him - someone who is reliable defensively (I say he definitely is) and someone that can bring in some nastiness (none of our existing defencemen bring that, and none in the prospect base other than Kanzig does that either). Someone who is reliable enough defensively to at least help shoulder the load on the PK, and who can get nasty in front of our goalie and ensure nobody is taking runs at him (you usually don't need to worry about this too often, but when you do and you don't have an answer for it, it becomes a huge gaping hole IMO).

I don't worry so much about not having a spot in the bottom pairing that is ready for a Kulak, Wotherspoon, Culkin or Morrison - even if it means we lose one or two of them this season. I don't want Russell playing top 4 minutes, but I would feel a heck of a lot more comfortable with him in the top 4 than with a kid.

I don't love re-signing him, but as long as the cap hit and term aren't too high and too long, it is solid depth and the opportunity cost of missing out on an existing 'up and coming' prospect is negligible. I liked Nakladal too, but Russell is still a steadier defencemen out there, especially if you give him Nakladal's minutes and utilization. If Nakladal was a 20 or a 22 year old, it would be a different story. I don't expect a tremendous developmental arc on his game - I liked him as a bottom-pairing guy, but I doubt I would like him as a top-pairing guy.

Giordano - Brodie
Hamilton - Jokipakka
Engelland - Wideman/Russell
Russell/Wideman

That is some serious depth. Say what you will about Russell and Wideman, but those two were very good a short 2 seasons ago, and without them, Flames wouldn't sniff the playoffs. They were playing top-pairing minutes for a long stretch. If you told me then that they would be at best the bottom pairing defencemen in 2 years, I would say: "Holy cow, sign me up for that team!".

It also doesn't necessarily spell the end of Wotherspoon either. Wotherspoon may not even have to touch waivers (though Treliving can once again roll the dice and see if he can sneak someone through - and as much as I like Wotherspoon, he may clear). It doesn't look like Russell will be signed until after the roster gets finalized and Smid goes on LTIR, and the Flames can carry 8 defencemen anyways (though not ideal).