[News] Flames to pick 6th in 2016 draft

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Neither would scouts probably. Anybody who has him top 10 probably thinks his upside is higher than Bjugstad's. The fact that there aren't a lot of 6'6 forwards who play top 6 show what a rare commodity Brown could be, it doesn't prove he is incapable of playing there.

How would his size be a detriment? Don't understand that logic. He's very coordinated and agile for a player his size. His size and strength will help with puck protection and faceoffs.

You know who else looked that way in junior? Chris Dingman.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I have never seen Alexander Nylander not fight through checks, not try to win pucks along the boards, or not go to the dirty areas to score goals. He is nothing like Huselius. Are you sure you are not thinking of his brother? That is a much closer description of Willie than Alex.

Well then maybe the concerns are overblown. But he looked soft to me in the U18s and I'm not the only one who got that impression. If he was harder on the puck you'd think he'd be even more impactful and have put up even better numbers. He shows flashes and those flashes have brilliance. But I think the Flames put a lot of stock in players who compete hard and make a difference every shift they are on the ice. I think Tkachuk is a guy who competes at a high level and is a difference maker consistently. Nylander seems to disappear for stretches and then show you a highlight of the night.

And some players cannot play their game at the NHL level when the defenders are overall better. Baertschi for example has somewhat similar size to Nylander and was a high skill player who wasn't really a banger. We've seen how easily his skill can be neutralized at the NHL level by big, strong defensemen who shove him off the puck easily. Will Alex Nylander be strong enough and be strong enough on the puck to be able to beat defenders along the boards? That is very much a huge question mark on him IMO. If he isn't then he indeed can become a Huselius type player, a guy who has to play with sublime skill but on the perimeter. How is Nylander going to respond to Shea Weber crushing him into the boards? How is Nylander going to respond to getting destroyed in front of the net? Will that make him shy away over time?

Hemsky was a high skill but slight player. Do we want an Ales Hemsky? Is that the missing piece to make us a contender? I'd rather add a different style of player ideally.

Does anybody know where I can find some game footage of Nylander at the World Juniors?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

You know who else looked that way in junior? Chris Dingman.

Logan Brown and Chris Dingman have very little in common and you know that. I've seen both play and they are nothing alike.

[Arsenal14]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Just an aside, they had video of the process and the draws from saturday on during the intermission of the blues-stars game yesterday.

There is a behind-the-scenes video that includes some of the footage of the actual draws here. They may release a more complete one at some point but it's not terribly interesting to watch.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Logan Brown and Chris Dingman have very little in common and you know that. I've seen both play and they are nothing alike.

Ok. Logan Brown's best season

Logan Brown, Windsor Spitfires : G:21 A:53 P:74

Chris Dingman, Brandon Wheat Kings: G:40 A:43 P:84

So yes, Dingman was probably considered the better prospect actually. Dingman was not as tall as Brown though. I saw both play too, Dingman was considered to be a beast coming up, a tank PF who could score. Brown is more a playmaker. So, lets compile a list of 6'6 or taller forwards who have panned out to be anything decent in the NHL. Hmmm, I can't find anything...

[Red Menace]

Logic would dictate that both EDM and VAN should consider trading down a few spots to draft a D-man...BUT these kind of moves in the top 10 of the draft seem to be very uncommon in the NHL. They happen all the time in the NFL and NBA, but not so much in the hockey world for some reason. (Or maybe that's just in my head?)
Anyway, I think it is very possible that one or both of them keep their pick and select a D-man, and that is probably what the majority of Flames fans hope for too...I think Tkachuk and Dubois are very real possibilities at #6.
I personally would be satisfied with Nylander as well, though many seem to have soured on him somewhat.

[Demetric]

I am not convinced that a D man is out of the question at 4, maybe unlikely but not out of the question

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Ok. Logan Brown's best season

Logan Brown, Windsor Spitfires : G:21 A:53 P:74

Chris Dingman, Brandon Wheat Kings: G:40 A:43 P:84

So yes, Dingman was probably considered the better prospect actually. Dingman was not as tall as Brown though. I saw both play too, Dingman was considered to be a beast coming up, a tank PF who could score. Brown is more a playmaker.

You're comparing a

17 year old Draft year Brown who finished 0.109 PPG behind his team's leading scorer.

to an

18 year old Draft+1 Dingman who finished 0.712 PPG behind his team's leading scorer.

You're also ignoring the difference 22 years can make in a franchise' developmental system.

This is more ridiculous than comparing Sens prospect Colin White to Bill Arnold.

So, lets compile a list of 6'6 or taller forwards who have panned out to be anything decent in the NHL. Hmmm, I can't find anything...

That kind of classification ignores that 6'6" or taller people represent a vast minority, and hockey is not an easily accessible sport as it is. The logic is as extreme as saying "lets compile a list of forwards with genetic roots in Costa RIca who have panned out to be anything decent in the NHL. Hmmm, I can't find anything..."

[JJ1532]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Ok. Logan Brown's best season

Logan Brown, Windsor Spitfires : G:21 A:53 P:74

Chris Dingman, Brandon Wheat Kings: G:40 A:43 P:84

So yes, Dingman was probably considered the better prospect actually. Dingman was not as tall as Brown though. I saw both play too, Dingman was considered to be a beast coming up, a tank PF who could score. Brown is more a playmaker. So, lets compile a list of 6'6 or taller forwards who have panned out to be anything decent in the NHL. Hmmm, I can't find anything...

Are you forgetting the MVP from the All Star game this season?

Nick Bjugstad does apply though. 6ft 6in, been a consistent 40 point player for the last 3 seasons.

My concern with Brown though is that it feels like a reach to take him at 6. If we were in the 8-10 range, I'd be all over him. But at 6, just feel like we might be passing on better prospects with a higher ceiling.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Ok. Logan Brown's best season

Logan Brown, Windsor Spitfires : G:21 A:53 P:74

Chris Dingman, Brandon Wheat Kings: G:40 A:43 P:84

So yes, Dingman was probably considered the better prospect actually. Dingman was not as tall as Brown though. I saw both play too, Dingman was considered to be a beast coming up, a tank PF who could score. Brown is more a playmaker. So, lets compile a list of 6'6 or taller forwards who have panned out to be anything decent in the NHL. Hmmm, I can't find anything...

Dingman played on a line with Marty Murray and Darren Ritchie. Neither made an impact in the NHL due to size but in the WHL Murray was an offensive wizard and Ritchie was also very skilled. Dingman only played in the NHL because he would fight, and he played in the clutch & grab era, so his lack of foot speed wasn't so easily exploited.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Ok. Logan Brown's best season

Logan Brown, Windsor Spitfires : G:21 A:53 P:74

Chris Dingman, Brandon Wheat Kings: G:40 A:43 P:84

So yes, Dingman was probably considered the better prospect actually. Dingman was not as tall as Brown though. I saw both play too, Dingman was considered to be a beast coming up, a tank PF who could score. Brown is more a playmaker. So, lets compile a list of 6'6 or taller forwards who have panned out to be anything decent in the NHL. Hmmm, I can't find anything...

Why are you comparing Brown's draft season to Dingman's +1 draft season? Talk about unfair comparisons. Dingman had 21 goals and 20 assists for 41 points in 45 games in his draft year. He was below a point per game in an era where they scored WAY more in junior than they do now.

Dingman was the better prospect? Put down the pipe bro. Dingman went 19th 20 years ago when the draft wasn't as deep in talent as it is these days. Brown is talked about as going top 8-10 in a draft with an extremely good top end. So no, there is no chance in hell that anybody considered Dingman a better prospect at the time he was drafted than Logan Brown is right now.

As for 6'6 top two line players historically? Who cares. If you can get a bigger version of Joe Thornton you'd be stupid not to. Should somebody have passed on Lemieux because there weren't many 6'4 dominant centres historically before him?

I don't even think we should necessarily take Brown but your arguments against him are beyond terrible.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Also, for the record out of all the guys ranked in the top 10 the one I want the Flames to avoid at all costs is Chychrun. The more I have seen of him more the more I see a guy with an outstanding set of tools and absolutely no tool box.

If the Flames were to pick him at 6 it would be the cherry on top of a terrible season. I would be less excited about Chychrun than either of the two defensemen they picked in the 2nd round last season.

[Erick Estrada]

If the Oilers can't make a deal for a defenseman and the Stars make it into the Semi-Finals would you offer up both picks to the Oilers for the 4th pick?

[The Coppernian One]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

Logic would dictate that both EDM and VAN should consider trading down a few spots to draft a D-man...BUT these kind of moves in the top 10 of the draft seem to be very uncommon in the NHL. They happen all the time in the NFL and NBA, but not so much in the hockey world for some reason. (Or maybe that's just in my head?)
Anyway, I think it is very possible that one or both of them keep their pick and select a D-man, and that is probably what the majority of Flames fans hope for too...I think Tkachuk and Dubois are very real possibilities at #6.
I personally would be satisfied with Nylander as well, though many seem to have soured on him somewhat.

It will all depend upon what is available in the broader market. If Chiarelli is able to find a defenseman - Hamonic, etc.- or two leading into the draft, he would be better to take a forward that could replace whomever he sent out (Eberle, RNH, Yakupov, etc.) in the top six and who would not need protecting in an expansion draft. In that scenario he gets a defender who can play now and a protected blue chip asset that would add size to the top 6, as opposed to a D prospect who will be at least a couple years away.

As much as the Oilers need defense, they need guys who can play top minutes now and allow the younger guys (Nurse, Klefbom, Davidson, Reinhart) to develop properly. It actually might make sense for them to take a forward or trade the pick as part of acquiring an established defender.

[JJ1532]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

If the Oilers can't make a deal for a defenseman and the Stars make it into the Semi-Finals would you offer up both picks to the Oilers for the 4th pick?

No. As much as I'd like Dubois/Tkachuk, I just don't think they are worth giving up extra assets to grab. Especially not a valuable late 1st that could be used to help in other areas.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

You're comparing a

17 year old Draft year Brown who finished 0.109 PPG behind his team's leading scorer.

to an

18 year old Draft+1 Dingman who finished 0.712 PPG behind his team's leading scorer.

You're also ignoring the difference 22 years can make in a franchise' developmental system.

This is more ridiculous than comparing Sens prospect Colin White to Bill Arnold.



That kind of classification ignores that 6'6" or taller people represent a vast minority, and hockey is not an easily accessible sport as it is. The logic is as extreme as saying "lets compile a list of forwards with genetic roots in Costa RIca who have panned out to be anything decent in the NHL. Hmmm, I can't find anything..."

I don't know how exactly to search for this, but I can't think of a single 6'6" or taller forward that has scored more than 60 points in the NHL.

Edit: Antropov. Don't know if there are others.

As far as I know he's the only one that's broken even 50 points.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Why are you comparing Brown's draft season to Dingman's +1 draft season? Talk about unfair comparisons. Dingman had 21 goals and 20 assists for 41 points in 45 games in his draft year. He was below a point per game in an era where they scored WAY more in junior than they do now.

Dingman was the better prospect? Put down the pipe bro. Dingman went 19th 20 years ago when the draft wasn't as deep in talent as it is these days. Brown is talked about as going top 8-10 in a draft with an extremely good top end. So no, there is no chance in hell that anybody considered Dingman a better prospect at the time he was drafted than Logan Brown is right now.

As for 6'6 top two line players historically? Who cares. If you can get a bigger version of Joe Thornton you'd be stupid not to. Should somebody have passed on Lemieux because there weren't many 6'4 dominant centres historically before him?

I don't even think we should necessarily take Brown but your arguments against him are beyond terrible.

Come on, are you comparing Logan Brown to Joe freakin Thornton? Now that is beyond terrible. One just seemed to appear from no where while the other was the clear cut #1 player in his draft who went on to become one of the greatest playmakers in NHL history. If Logan Brown turns into a bigger version of Joe Thornton I will eat the entire boards pubes.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

If the Oilers can't make a deal for a defenseman and the Stars make it into the Semi-Finals would you offer up both picks to the Oilers for the 4th pick?

Yes I do it. I want one of Tkachuk or Dubois as I think they address our biggest need (winger with size and bite in his game). Nylander is good and all but I really like the idea of playing Tkachuk and Bennett together. With the Benning talk that he likes both of those forwards more than any Dman in the draft leads me to believe neither will be there when the Flames pick 6th

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

If the Oilers can't make a deal for a defenseman and the Stars make it into the Semi-Finals would you offer up both picks to the Oilers for the 4th pick?

I think that is too steep of a price to move up 2 spots and within the same tier. I think if the Flames are happy with anybody from 4-6 but do have a preference then I think the most they'd give up to go from 6th to 4th is a 2nd. But who knows.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Come on, are you comparing Logan Brown to Joe freakin Thornton? Now that is beyond terrible. One just seemed to appear from no where while the other was the clear cut #1 player in his draft who went on to become one of the greatest playmakers in NHL history. If Logan Brown turns into a bigger version of Joe Thornton I will eat the entire boards pubes.

Complain to the scouts then. They are ones who brought up Joe Thornton as a comparable player in terms of style. I'm just using their comparable.

Logan Brown didn't come from nowhere. The first half the year he disappointed the scouts by not shooting enough and not using his size to his advantage. Then he elevated his game in the 2nd half and blew everyone away. His potential is massive. He's 6'6, a skilled playmaker and skates as good as someone 6 inches shorter than him. He has the potential to be a 1st line centre who is 6'6 and 220 lbs +. And that is why he may go top 10 and maybe even top 8. The type of player he can develop into is worth a lot.

Chris Dingman was a 4th line checker and you shouldn't have even brought him up. The two players aren't comparable at all.