Stabbing in Brentwood-5 Dead, 1 Arrested

[Dion]

Originally Posted by dino7c

you know his lawyer is going to bust his ass to build a case of mental illness regardless of the facts. Thats the way the legal system works he has no other choice its not a question of guilt

LOL! His lawyer is going to do what's best for his client to ensure he gets a fair trial. One of them is seeing that he gets a psychiatric evaluation. - standard procedure where there is a suspicion of mental health issues. If the doctors find nothing he will be ruled competent to stand trial. No judge worth his or her salt would disagree with what his lawyer is doing.

[Matt Reeeeead]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I'm not worried about punishing the guy...I don't want him walking around free in the community where I raise my children

For sure... I think everyone fully agrees with that (obviously).

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Dion

LOL! His lawyer is going to do what's best for his client to ensure he gets a fair trial. One of them is seeing that he gets a psychiatric evaluation. If the doctors find nothing he will be ruled competent to stand trial. No judge worth his or her salt would disagree with what his lawyer is doing.

I never said anyone would disagree with it, in fact I said that is how the system works so of course the judge would be fine with it

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Dion

LOL! His lawyer is going to do what's best for his client to ensure he gets a fair trial. One of them is seeing that he gets a psychiatric evaluation. If the doctors find nothing he will be ruled competent to stand trial. No judge worth his or her salt would disagree with what his lawyer is doing.

Why the mocking tone? Also the psych eval will be ordered by the judge.

[Banner]

Originally Posted by zamler

It's harder for people that know him to believe he is a cold blooded murderer. But they know just like everyone else that he is indeed a cold blooded murderer, as difficult as that may be to process.

It's not that I disagree with you and dino, it's just that we barely know the whole story. In fact, we know close to nothing, just the result of his actions. Everything here is our speculation on why he did it. If your incredibly kind best friend did what Matt did, would you say the same things that you're saying right now? Not saying you have to forgive him whole-heartedly, but since you know it's completely out of character for him to do so, there's got to be a reason. It's highly unlikely someone goes to the other side of the sanity spectrum in one night.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by zamler

Why the mocking tone? Also the psych eval will be ordered by the judge.

some of these guys are just on their high horses, pretty sure he didn't even read...I said that's how the system works so obviously the judge would be all for it.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I never said anyone would disagree with it, in fact I said that is how the system works so of course the judge would be fine with it

You said he was going to bust his ass to build a case of mental illness regardless of the facts. Well, the facts don't state he has a mental illness and what he is doing is trying to determine the status of his client before heading to trial.

[morgin]

There's two conversations going on and it's causing a lot of unnecessary arguing. Some people are talking about wanting to understand who Matt was prior to this incident to understand how he got to where he was. In that discussion is speculation about whether or not various types and degrees of mental illness could have be a factor. There is also a discussion about feeling sympathetic for the person he was formerly for being faced with whatever it was that ####ed his brain up and made him do this, if in fact it was something out of his control. No one in this conversation is saying that if this was some jealous anger based issue where he was just an awful deplorable human being there should be any sympathy for him. It's about the other possibility. Until we get more info, it's as likely as any other scenario.

The other conversation seems to be based on looking at Matt as he is now, who is a guy who most certainly killed 5 people (to use zamler's words, in cold blood). That guy deserves to be locked up and segregated from society. If he has a mental illness, he should be treated, but it's a pretty contentious issue (look at Vince Li) if someone who did something so horrific should ever be reintegrated.

This thread is starting to reflect poorly on all of us though. Should probably try to take it in a better direction.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by dino7c

some of these guys are just on their high horses

Just arguing what the facts are. Whether the lawyer can use the insanity defence has yet to be determined.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Dion

LOL! His lawyer is going to do what's best for his client to ensure he gets a fair trial. One of them is seeing that he gets a psychiatric evaluation. - standard procedure where there is a suspicion of mental health issues. If the doctors find nothing he will be ruled competent to stand trial. No judge worth his or her salt would disagree with what his lawyer is doing.

As horrific as all of this is, living in a society where we don't have a basic justice system that would allow for a psychiatric evaluation would result in a whoooole lot more violence.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Matt Reeeeead

It's not a matter of "deserves".

If he truly did not have the mental ability to make the decision to kill, prison is not considered to be a "penalty" for him. That would suggest that the penalty is being done to change his behaviour (next time he wont stab 5 people! serves him right).

Prison or whatever would be to isolate him from society since we're not sure if he has the ability (or meds have the ability) to allow him to control his actions and prevent him from being harmful to others.

I am bugged by everyone assuming that this was as simple as him pressing the on/off button in the remote like he woke up and said "I'm going to kill 5 people today"!

That's almost for sure not what happened. Maybe it is, we haven't established evidence for that. But it doesn't make sense. It probably is a mental disorder that we need to learn and understand better to make the proper conclusion. At the end of the day, I'm suggesting that "punishing" him is likely worthless, as there may not be anything to "punish". Punish him for what, having a brain disorder he is unable to control? That's akin to punishing a dog because he's stupid. I'm more concerned that until properly diagnosed and figuring this out, that no matter how you slice it he's obviously extremely harmful to society, and until we can have absolute certainty that whatever his issue can be controlled he needs to be removed from society in isolation.

Good lord.

Originally Posted by Banner

It's not that I disagree with you and dino, it's just that we barely know the whole story. In fact, we know close to nothing, just the result of his actions. Everything here is our speculation on why he did it. If your incredibly kind best friend did what Matt did, would you say the same things that you're saying right now? Not saying you have to forgive him whole-heartedly, but since you know it's completely out of character for him to do so, there's got to be a reason. It's highly unlikely someone goes to the other side of the sanity spectrum in one night.

Yes I would. I'm not saying it would be easy, it would be the hardest thing in the world to deal with. But I would ultimately feel the same way.

BTW I agree with the last sentence to a point, but in a way people do cross over "in one night" that is how someone commits such an act. The process of getting to a state where they are capable of murder is a whole other story and very complex.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Dion

Just arguing what the facts are. Whether the lawyer can use the insanity defence has yet to be determined.

when you start a reply with LOL! you are on your high horse

the defence lawyer works for the client, he will do his best to get the most lenient sentence possible and mental illness is his best bet. It is what it is, not saying he shouldn't be doing it thats his job

[morgin]

nm. posting this instead again

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/ca...813/story.html

[dino7c]

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/ca...813/story.html

was asked to remove the quote, agreed

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by dino7c

not totally make it up but defense lawyers have been know to stretch the truth...the crown will likely have a different view of facts when it comes to his mental state

You've sat in a lot of Canadian court rooms? I think you've seen too much law and order.

Edit: mental illness alone is not a defense. They also have to prove he did not appreciate The nature and quality of his act or that it was morally/legally wrong. It's a pretty uphill battle. It's not like they say "he was bi-polar" and the judge let's him walk out of the room.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

You've sat in a lot of Canadian court rooms? I think you've seen too much law and order.

been on a jury in a pretty serious case, the opposing sides definitely did not reach the same conclusions after hearing the same expert testimony and seeing the same evidence. although to me it was pretty clear cut towards one side

Strombad do you just thank everyone who posts something negative against me?

[zamler]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

You've sat in a lot of Canadian court rooms? I think you've seen too much law and order.

I've sat in on a few cases, and that's pretty much what counsel does. Pull and stretch the truth to any degree they can get away with. I won't get into details but many years ago a friend of mine got off (was not a violent crime) because of some absurd but legal tactics by his lawyer.

Originally Posted by dino7c

Strombad do you just thank everyone who posts something negative against me?

Looks like.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by zamler

I've sat in on a few cases, and that's pretty much what counsel does. Pull and stretch the truth to any degree they can get away with. I won't get into details but many years ago a friend of mine got off (was not a violent crime) because of some absurd but legal tactics by his lawyer.

guys get off drunk driving charges all the time because their lawyers find some loophole...same thing with some dumb ass "friend" of mine who was busted

not sure how anyone can think it doesn't happen

[strombad]

Originally Posted by dino7c

been on a jury in a pretty serious case, the opposing sides definitely did not reach the same conclusions after hearing the same expert testimony and seeing the same evidence. although to me it was pretty clear cut towards one side me

Strombad do you just thank everyone who posts something negative against me?

Actually, I thank posts which say something I agree with instead of piling on with the exact same comment.

Are you just looking for a fight? All you've done so far is act defensive while criticising others. I'd suggest you take a break and relax, this isn't about you.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by strombad

Actually, I thank posts which say something I agree with instead of piling on with the exact same comment.

Are you just looking for a fight? All you've done so far is act defensive while criticising others. I'd suggest you take a break and relax, this isn't about you.

95% of my posts are responses to people quoting me, what "its about" is discussing the tragedy and everything that goes along with it. I am free to post here as are you

I have yet to criticize anyone personally