Who do we hope ends up GM?

[Vinny01]

Give me a break. There are 30 NHL GM jobs total and people are talking like a first time candidate won't want this gig. Burke was in te background before Feaster was fired and will be again when the new GM is hired

[Burke Salad]

I still dont get why Kelly Kisio doesnt get more consideration for this job?

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Parallex

FYP

Toronto is not good and was not good... they just lucked out in the lockout shortened season and squeeked in.

Yeah, fair point. Maybe I am too charitable in my assessment. Sure looks like it based on this season.

Originally Posted by saillias

I agree, I think Burke is going to find himself empty handed in summer and end up defacto GM. He wants a robot he can order around with a remote control and won't get it

Agreed. It's in the job description he stated when the search started: young executive willing to develop under mentor.

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Give me a break. There are 30 NHL GM jobs total and people are talking like a first time candidate won't want this gig. Burke was in te background before Feaster was fired and will be again when the new GM is hired

He sure does seem to like the spotlight though. Once the genii is out of the bottle...

Originally Posted by Burke Salad

I still dont get why Kelly Kisio doesnt get more consideration for this job?

He sure fits the description, and is home grown. Almost all of the positives performances this season have been home grown or acquired very young and developed in the Flames system.

Coaching and GMs should take the same approach IMO.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Parallex

FYP

Toronto is not good and was not good... they just lucked out in the lockout shortened season and squeeked in.

IMO they have a playoff roster when you look at other teams in that conference and I feel Carlyle isn't the right coach for that group as he's alienating players and hasn't implemented much of a defensive system outside of getting outshot night after night.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by saillias

I agree, I think Burke is going to find himself empty handed in summer and end up defacto GM. He wants a robot he can order around with a remote control and won't get it

There are 30 GM jobs around the league. I'm sure we're not going to have too many issues finding one.

If anything, Burke has made this job far more attractive than someone reporting directly to Edwards / King.

[Burke Salad]

Nonis may be available this summer for Burkie.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

There are 30 GM jobs around the league. I'm sure we're not going to have too many issues finding one.

If anything, Burke has made this job far more attractive than someone reporting directly to Edwards / King.

Maybe.

But consider:
1. Do we want 'someone' or the best one?
2. If Edwards/King really were a problem (not saying that I agree), what guarantee is there they won't still be?
3. If #2 is true, it's more likely that you will have to deal with all three meddling rather than just one. That is what their history tells us if you believe the interpretation of history that says they did in fact meddle.

There might be too many ??? to attract the very best candidates.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Makes sense to me. So I wonder if the Flames have assured Burke that his is a ten year position?

In Toronto the team he inherited was about as bad as the Flames. He asked for 5 years, got it and was canned just as they were starting to get good. They seem to be going backwards now.

So does he get a longer term guarantee here?

Comparing TOR and CGY I don't see much difference in terms of budget, both spend. The market might be a little tougher under the current CBA. The contract dumps he keep mentioning are a pet peeve of Bettman, for example the deal Burke did for Kolzig was smart, but the NHL managed to find a way to claw back the little victory Burke achieved. So is that really an option?

Sucks for whoever he hires that Burke has already set the expectation of a fast rebuild. Feaster wasted time with all his "I did not come here to trade Jarome' and re-load nonsense. Should have hit bottom faster.

Not sure what A-level talent would want this job. 2 years of a rebuild wasted, a boss who will give your performance review on live TV and who will passive aggressively interfere through the media. Yuck.

Niewy is too smart to take this job.

So you're saying that the Leafs are going backwards because Burke left? Maybe Burke didn't leave behind such a great team. If anything, in acquiring Bernier Nonis brought in a guy who masked a lot of the deficiencies of a team mainly assembled by Burke and resembling his vision of how a team should play.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

IMO they have a playoff roster when you look at other teams in that conference and I feel Carlyle isn't the right coach for that group as he's alienating players and hasn't implemented much of a defensive system outside of getting outshot night after night.

That's a huge issue.

He is a defensive coach with a very offensive roster.

Their forwards are more offensive focused, their d-group features more offensive focused puck movers (Phaneuf, Reilly, Gardiner, Franson), yet they try to play a defensive/physical game that does not suit the players he has.

Bolland was a huge contributor to their early season success since he is one of the few guys on that roster that actually plays the style of game that Carlye prefers.

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

There are 30 GM jobs around the league. I'm sure we're not going to have too many issues finding one.

If anything, Burke has made this job far more attractive than someone reporting directly to Edwards / King.

How so? If anything, Burke's presence gives them less autonomy within the front office and any team they build will be built with Burke's vision. At least with King and Edwards the GM could build the team and make moves as he saw fit(for the most part).

[Vinny01]

I don't get the speculative pessimism? The Flames are a team willing to spend to win, a GM will inherit a team with ample cap space, and in the early stages of a rebuild (inheriting Monahan, 2014 1st, and a few nice prospects). They get to be mentored by Brian Burke who is a highly respected executive among his peer group. What candidate wouldn't love to inherit a team to build from the ground up with a near endless budget to build a winner?

Also candidates can look around and see more and more organizationsoving toward the management structure that includes a President of Hockey Ops

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Dagger

How so? If anything, Burke's presence gives them less autonomy within the front office and any team they build will be built with Burke's vision. At least with King and Edwards the GM could build the team and make moves as he saw fit(for the most part).

As teams make a change up top they will move to this model. Columbus, Calgary, Buffalo, Colorado, Ottawa have done it in the past year alone. It is the future of hockey operations

[trublmaker]

Originally Posted by mikeecho

He should just shut the hell up and focus on fixing this team instead of going to the media with loose lips. Now every GM in the league is going to know we have small guys and he's killing their trade value, blah, blah, blah... is what would have been said if Feaster was still the GM and was planting these tid bits.

OMG Burke let the cat out of the bag, our big secret isn't a secret anymore, how could Burke do this, we're really screwed now.

[hummdeedoo]

Originally Posted by Burke Salad

Nonis may be available this summer for Burkie.

The whole Maple Leafs leftover thing is really unappealing for me:

Burke,maybe Nonis, possibly Kadri.

I'm Ok with Burke for now but I hope he brings in someone new.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Dagger

So you're saying that the Leafs are going backwards because Burke left? Maybe Burke didn't leave behind such a great team. If anything, in acquiring Bernier Nonis brought in a guy who masked a lot of the deficiencies of a team mainly assembled by Burke and resembling his vision of how a team should play.

Nope. Just making an observation.

You can interpret it your way, or even as they fired him because they saw what was coming (i.e. the team was not very good after a 5 year rebuild).

I don't know how I feel on the topic. But I can see pretty compelling reasons both pro/con having him in charge and also what it might mean regarding the salient point: the Flames GM search.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Burke Salad

I still dont get why Kelly Kisio doesnt get more consideration for this job?

When was the last time a guy went from Junior GM with zero NHL experience to NHL GM?

Especially a junior GM with 0 Memorial Cup win, only 1 trip to the Memorial Cup and okay, not great, record of producing NHL talent.

Maybe you have him join as an assistant GM to get experience but it is a lot different going from Junior with the advantages of having a ton of cash to throw around, a large city, top line facilities and an NHL affiliation. In the NHL Kissio is on the same playing field as every other GM.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Not sure what A-level talent would want this job. 2 years of a rebuild wasted, a boss who will give your performance review on live TV and who will passive aggressively interfere through the media. Yuck.

Niewy is too smart to take this job.

Seems like you can say that about a lot of jobs though just change the person in charge.

Toronto has meddlesome owners that canned Burke and a large media base that think they all are smarter than you. Ottawa has Melnyk who is nuts. Edmonton has Lowe. Chicago has Bowman in the background. Philly has Snyder and Bobby Clarke. Phoenix is always unstable. Edmonton has Lowe. Montreal if you are not French you suck. Who knows what Wang will do in NYI. Dolan is a nutcase with the Rangers. Nashville, TB, Florida, Dallas etc. all have financial constraints.

For almost every position out there you can find issues that an A lister might come up with as why not to go.

With Burke there are likely some who would back away from the job with him there but others that like the fact that they can do the job without a lot of the distractions that come with being a GM because Burke will take some of those hits for you.

As mentioned there are 30 GM jobs out there and this is one that comes with a pretty blank slate in terms of roster commitments and with a blank check in terms of going to the cap. That is likely a fairly enticing situation to many potential GM's.

[EYE_Overstand]

Originally Posted by moon

When was the last time a guy went from Junior GM with zero NHL experience to NHL GM?

Especially a junior GM with 0 Memorial Cup win, only 1 trip to the Memorial Cup and okay, not great, record of producing NHL talent.

Maybe you have him join as an assistant GM to get experience but it is a lot different going from Junior with the advantages of having a ton of cash to throw around, a large city, top line facilities and an NHL affiliation. In the NHL Kissio is on the same playing field as every other GM.

I'm pretty sure he also stated that he is winding down and is happy in his position.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Maybe.

But consider:
1. Do we want 'someone' or the best one?
2. If Edwards/King really were a problem (not saying that I agree), what guarantee is there they won't still be?
3. If #2 is true, it's more likely that you will have to deal with all three meddling rather than just one. That is what their history tells us if you believe the interpretation of history that says they did in fact meddle.

There might be too many ??? to attract the very best candidates.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

We absolutely won't attract the "best" GM available at the time. The "Best" GM will take a roll in an organization either as "President of Hockey Operations" (Burke's role here) or as GM in an organization where GM is the top dog when it comes to hockey decisions and the owners / President aren't meddlers.

The Flames have picked their hockey top dog, and it's Burke. Burke will now have to go out and hopefully find a very good candidate who has a great hockey mind to contribute to our hockey brain trust and is excited to go into a role that has more responsibility and autonomy than a traditional assistant GM but less than a GM in an organization where that is the top hockey position.

There will be no shortage of great candidates looking for a position like that, so there should be no worries. People who are hoping we land someone just as "big" (for lack of a better word and I don't mean physically) as Burke because they hope that this person will be the mind and the final stop when it comes to direction of the team will be saddly dissapointed. Doesn't matter what you call it, Burke is top hockey dog and has final say on direction of this team on ice as long as he's here, no hire into the GM position will change that.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I don't get the speculative pessimism? The Flames are a team willing to spend to win, a GM will inherit a team with ample cap space, and in the early stages of a rebuild (inheriting Monahan, 2014 1st, and a few nice prospects). They get to be mentored by Brian Burke who is a highly respected executive among his peer group. What candidate wouldn't love to inherit a team to build from the ground up with a near endless budget to build a winner?

They will also inherit the vision, plan, and previous GM as their boss with day to day oversight - and a big brash personality.

It's clearly different than going in to run your own show, though everyone answers to someone so I don't think the difference is totally black and white.

I think the most telling thing is the flames seem to be happy to roll through a pretty important trade deadline and draft short 2 people. So how important are those positions really in the grand scheme of Brian Burke's Calgary flames? Obviously not very.