The Drive for 30th - Page 29 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

GreenLantern · 03-23-2013, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

It's a toss up. Probably many scouts have very different top 4 lists. I don't think Drouin is now the clearcut, consensus #2. I don't think there's a lot separating some of these guys.

If the Flames have all these guys ranked super closely then I suspect we might not go for the LW as we have Baertschi and Gaudreau already at that position. But if they do take Drouin I'll be fine with it as he is an absolute wizard with the puck and has a higher upside than Baertschi IMO.

I'd prefer Jones, MacKinnon or Barkov over Drouin but taking Drouin would be fine too. Wish I had seen a few more games of these players. I'll definitely be ordering some draft publications this year.

There are more possibilities this year IMO for the bottom 4 teams to swap picks and try and get the guy they like best.

Honestly given past drafts and the situation this team is in I wouldn't be surprised to see the Flames do a little wheeling and dealing with other teams in the top 5. Might be a great way to recover a 2nd round pick + more. It will all depend on things shake out, but I can't see them targetting Jones or Drouin for reasons you outlined already. I think we have gone into quite a bit of depth that drafting the best player available isn't always the best option, filling clubs needs is our priority IMO and a #1 center is where it is at.

Imagine a tandom of Mackinnon/Barkov and Jankowski as the 1 2 punch going forward, with Bearchi/Gaudreau filling out the left side. It'd be almost like a Sedin situation (ok just stick with me here, not comparing them to the Sedins skill level) in the sense that we can plug in that RW at random and see what sticks.. it would be a much better situation than where the team is now, trying to stick mud against the wall in the center position.

Vinny01 · 03-23-2013, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StrykerSteve

The more they lose, the more they win. So cheering for losses makes perfect sense to me.

You sound like such an Oilers fan

Flames Draft Watcher · 03-23-2013, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

It will all depend on things shake out, but I can't see them targetting Jones or Drouin for reasons you outlined already.

Disagree on them not targeting Jones. Our depth on young defense is arguably worse than our depth at centre. I don't believe we have any future top 3 defensemen in our system. And if Bouw is dealt or leaves next year as an UFA then we have a seriously big hole to fill. With Giordano regressing this need is bigger than before. This organization hasn't had a true #1 d-man since MacInnis.

I think Jones fills as big of a need as MacKinnon/Barkov would. With Jankowski/Backlund our future top two line centres might be passable. With only Brodie our future top 3 defense looks pretty bad.

It'll be super interesting to see what happens if we actually have a shot at Jones. I think he might be the best player available.

StrykerSteve · 03-23-2013, 03:07 PM

Doesn't matter how any of us sound, the team sucks. We are all free to deal with that fact in our own way.

$ven27 · 03-23-2013, 03:09 PM

How would you compare MacKinnon's speed to guys like Duchene, Gaborik, Grabner, etc?

dammage79 · 03-23-2013, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Disagree on them not targeting Jones. Our depth on young defense is arguably worse than our depth at centre. I don't believe we have any future top 3 defensemen in our system. And if Bouw is dealt or leaves next year as an UFA then we have a seriously big hole to fill. With Giordano regressing this need is bigger than before. This organization hasn't had a true #1 d-man since MacInnis.

I think Jones fills as big of a need as MacKinnon/Barkov would. With Jankowski/Backlund our future top two line centres might be passable. With only Brodie our future top 3 defense looks pretty bad.

It'll be super interesting to see what happens if we actually have a shot at Jones. I think he might be the best player available.

Although none of our D prospects are as good as Jones. I would not count out one of Ramage, Kulak, Wotherspoon to not pan out as top three D men. Wotherspoon one could argue was one of the top three D men in the WJC.

Ramage has a Regher type quality to me and that is a good thing.

StrykerSteve · 03-23-2013, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by $ven27

How would you compare MacKinnon's speed to guys like Duchene, Gaborik, Grabner, etc?

He was the fastest skater on team Canada, and won the fastest skater comp in the junior all star game, I believe.

djsFlames · 03-23-2013, 03:17 PM

Interesting. I know some are also of the train of thought that you take the 'best player' available to you, no matter what. (but we still won't know who's what for a while yet)

But I'd also have to side with team needs. I'd be happy with Drouin, sure. He's an incredible player. But I'd go with MacKinnon at #2 for sure. He just fits the bill on everything we need in a young core player moving forward. Even if his ceiling isn't as high offensively as Drouin in the NHL (and who even knows, it could be the other way around) it just makes too much sense not to do. I'd be happy with Barkov at say, #4 overall. But with your options at #2, you take MacKinnon every time if you're the Calgary Flames.

Flames Draft Watcher · 03-23-2013, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dammage79

Although none of our D prospects are as good as Jones. I would not count out one of Ramage, Kulak, Wotherspoon to not pan out as top three D men. Wotherspoon one could argue was one of the top three D men in the WJC.

Ramage has a Regher type quality to me and that is a good thing.

As of last year they weren't even sure they were going to sign Ramage. I think his upside is more likely a 5/6 guy. Even though I like what we saw from Wotherspoon I think he's more of a 4/5 guy. Haven't seen enough of Kulak to have a strong opinion but there's nothing to indicate he'll be a top 3 guy in the NHL so far.

No real future stars on defense in our system IMO. Lots of guys with 4-7 potential for sure. I think it best if we temper our expectation of the d-men in the system. It's a hard position to play in the NHL and I've seen many guys like Kulak/Ramage not pan out over the years.

It looks like we will be needing a #1 d-man and a #2 d-man pretty soon. We don't have either in the system and only Bouwmeester on the team at the moment who is a true top pairing defenseman.

Top two defense is a huge need for us. Top two line centre is as well but with Jankowski/Backlund we have much more potential there.

Flash Walken · 03-23-2013, 03:20 PM

Gord Baldwin and Keith Aulie could be some punishing nhl defenders. Maybe not top 4, but solid contributors.

John Negrin, boy, that guy could be a great two way defender.

- Flash Walken, 2010

Flames Draft Watcher · 03-23-2013, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by $ven27

How would you compare MacKinnon's speed to guys like Duchene, Gaborik, Grabner, etc?

MacKinnon's skating is awesome, I think it would hold up to the guys you are suggesting. I think he'll definitely be one of the fastest NHLers. Speed is a big asset in the new NHL. It would help our quick break offense. It will help MacKinnon get back defensively.

MrMastodonFarm · 03-23-2013, 03:25 PM

To be honest I'll be happy with either guy. If we finish dead last we'll either get a top pairing blue liner or a top line player. Sounds frigging great to me, we need both and either position is hugely important.

Roof-Daddy · 03-23-2013, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Gord Baldwin and Keith Aulie could be some punishing nhl defenders. Maybe not top 4, but solid contributors.

John Negrin, boy, that guy could be a great two way defender.

- Flash Walken, 2010

Don't forget about Matt Pelech.

Guy's a monster.

Flash Walken · 03-23-2013, 03:26 PM

Yeah, don't care who we pick out of that group of 4. The key is, actually getting one of those guys, regardless of who they are.

"Don't care, picked top 5."

Flash Walken · 03-23-2013, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Don't forget about Matt Pelech.

Guy's a monster.

I thought he had the most potential of the bunch.

Ezio · 03-23-2013, 03:29 PM

First year lottery is pretty exciting with the thought of getting a high end prospect rewarded after a mediocre season. The 'I ain't even mad' meme is perfect here.

Second year lottery was somewhat expected, but was left with much more frustration.

Third year lottery was downright embarrassing and for the first time, I was ashamed to be a fan of the team.

Fourth year lottery (this season) is the ultimate test of my fandom. I almost considered jumping over the bridge and stop following the team for a while.

Before you root for the 'tank' and 'scorched earth rebuild', prepare for the futility you'll see. You'll need to emotionally love the team to continue caring for them.

Flames Draft Watcher · 03-23-2013, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ezio

Before you root for the 'tank' and 'scorched earth rebuild', prepare for the futility you'll see. You'll need to emotionally love the team to continue caring for them.

Well I'm not sure many posters are advocating to trade everybody. I think most of us just don't think there are many untouchables on the roster. I'm sure we'll keep a lot of our veterans in the end. But Feaster should be listening to all offers and take the best ones for the future.

We are already watching futility. And outside of Backlund/Brodie there is no hope on the current roster for future success. I think many of us would find it easier to watch a young guy like Jones/MacKinnon/Barkov/Drouin/Baertschi making mistakes instead of Tanguay/Cammalleri/Iginla making mistakes when they should be veterans with "poise and urgency" as Hartley thinks.

I think if a GM is skilled that a rebuild/retool need not be a 5 year thing. The Flyers and some other teams are examples of teams that retooled a lot quicker. This trade deadline will be key as Feaster needs to use the assets we currently have and turn them into younger assets.

But make not mistake about it the Flames have some big question marks long term. Goaltending is a big question mark, top two defensemen are a big question mark, top line forwards are a big question mark.

Our pro and amateur scouting now needs to step up and find us some answers for those long term needs.

dammage79 · 03-23-2013, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ezio

First year lottery is pretty exciting with the thought of getting a high end prospect rewarded after a mediocre season. The 'I ain't even mad' meme is perfect here.

Second year lottery was somewhat expected, but was left with much more frustration.

Third year lottery was downright embarrassing and for the first time, I was ashamed to be a fan of the team.

Fourth year lottery (this season) is the ultimate test of my fandom. I almost considered jumping over the bridge and stop following the team for a while.

Before you root for the 'tank' and 'scorched earth rebuild', prepare for the futility you'll see. You'll need to emotionally love the team to continue caring for them.

After this season.....I think we're geared for the team to be futile for a couple of seasons.

moon · 03-23-2013, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djsFlames

If, say we drafted 2nd overall after Florida who pick Seth Jones 1st, who would you then take with everyone else available to you?

My preference for top 5 would be 1. Mackinnon 2. Drouin 3. Barkov 4. Jones 5. Nichushkin.

If Nichushkin wasn't Russian I would have him at 3 or 4.

GreenLantern · 03-23-2013, 03:46 PM

I think that Giordano will have a bounce back year next season. You can see his confidence boost when he gets a good play, like his goal the other night. He seemed really excited. Some things just don't go the way you want them to, ask Jay for the past 3 seasons.

I wouldn't write him off just yet. But yea Jones couldn't hurt the organization, thats for sure..