Brad Treliving needs to go

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by ah123

Both BT and Sutter have one year left after this year

Yeah the timing is tricky for sure. The Flames also have a year with some heavier unproductive contracts plus key guys to deal with this summer.

There is no chance they want to do a tear down while Daryl Sutter is coaching. But if they can't find a way to keep Gaudreau, they probably need to scorched earth tear down if they want to break out of indefinite mediocrity.

Maybe a new well established president with a lot of power for next year to make sure Sutter and Treliving can't hand grenade the team for short term marginal gains, than you start scorching things.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by SaskyFlamesFan

Monahan scored 22 goals his rookie year (without Gaudreau) and had been one of the most consistent scorers this franchise has seen. I think a lot of the criticism being thrown at Treliving is using hindsight. His fall has been fast in the last couple years and injuries catching up to him.



During 2018-2019 I am sure many were lauding the steal his contract was.

Lots of players have scored 20+ goals

The hope is that you have a GM who see past stat lines

[dino7c]

Monahan has 455 points, injuries have taken a major toll on his career...the I toda so's (after the fact as usual) are pretty ridiculous.

Should Brad have waived him after his 82 point season using the crystal ball? It's not like he makes 10M, contact was really solid the first few years.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Monahan has 455 points, injuries have taken a major toll on his career...the I toda so's (after the fact as usual) are pretty ridiculous.

Should Brad have waived him after his 82 point season using the crystal ball? It's not like he makes 10M, contact was really solid the first few years.

Gaudreau could've turned dozens of 2/3C's into 450+ point scorers

You aren't seeing the forest for the trees imo

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

Gaudreau could've turned dozens of 2/3C's into 450+ point scorers

You aren't seeing the forest for the trees imo

While I think BT has done a horrendous job, what did you want him to do with Monahan?

If Monahan was useless and just a by-product of JG, wouldnt (and maybe they did) other GM's see that as well?

What if other teams didn't want Monahan/valued him exactly as you do?

The problem is we have wasted so many assets on fringe players, signed terrible UFA's, and had no vision for the team (Vision changes every year chasing the newest shiny toy)

Monahan not turning into a solid 1B center/falling out of that role certainly hurt, but even if he was still a 30 goals 65 point center our team would have several glarring holes and not enough top end talent.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

Gaudreau could've turned dozens of 2/3C's into 450+ point scorers

You aren't seeing the forest for the trees imo

Monahan had more goals than Nate up until like last year...no, any rando player wouldn't have done the same. Sean had an elite shot before his injuries...if you can't admit that there is no point.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Of course it was going to be heavily criticized, they were the franchise backbones of their respective organizations.

But winning cures all and when your team is still good enough to win sans star, a fanbase can forgive. But I’m not confident this organization will win much without #13 at all based on what I’ve seen on the ice and on the stat sheets.

I’m all but certain NYI fans were saying very similar things leading up to and after the loss of Tavares.

I will acknowledge that just because the Islanders were able to weather the loss of Tavares shouldn’t mean the Flames should expect similar results.

[GioforPM]

Even if somehow a GM would have said, in 2019, “Monahan’s just not good enough at 1C”, despite the gatoraid line performing really well, I’m not sure what kind of upgrade was available. Eichel and who else?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Even if somehow a GM would have said, in 2019, “Monahan’s just not good enough at 1C”, despite the gatoraid line performing really well, I’m not sure what kind of upgrade was available. Eichel and who else?

Was Eichel even available in 2019? I doubt it.

I acknowledge that Monahan has fallen off a cliff, but nobody's Crystal Ball is that good.

I hate to be that guy, especially in light of some of the other threads going on around here, but Bennett not emerging as a #1 C was a real swift kick in the nuts to 'The Process.'

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Eichel and who else?

At that time I don't think Eichel was available either. I guess the revisionists can claim a Monahan for Stone trade should have happened.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Even if somehow a GM would have said, in 2019, “Monahan’s just not good enough at 1C”, despite the gatoraid line performing really well, I’m not sure what kind of upgrade was available. Eichel and who else?

Kadri was…

For all the flack the Flames receive for their pro scouting, I think that trade would have worked out pretty favourably for them.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by TOfan

I’m all but certain NYI fans were saying very similar things leading up to and after the loss of Tavares.

I will acknowledge that just because the Islanders were able to weather the loss of Tavares shouldn’t mean the Flames should expect similar results.

If Johnny pulls a Tavares and leaves to go play for his childhood team after saying he wants to stay that is something out of Tre's control. If Gaudreau leaves because BT didn't want to pay him and somebody else does this organization should fire him immediately. The only excuse acceptable is that he was set on leaving and I don't believe that is the case at all..I have a feeling Tre is trying to get him to sign below market value and holding to his guns and the closer we get to UFA, the more likely JG sees what the market is. This extension should have been done already, just pay the guy what he is worth.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

At that time I don't think Eichel was available either. I guess the revisionists can claim a Monahan for Stone trade should have happened.

Stone who wouldn't have signed here

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Stone who wouldn't have signed here

You know damn well that revisionist types don't think that way.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

If Johnny pulls a Tavares and leaves to go play for his childhood team after saying he wants to stay that is something out of Tre's control. If Gaudreau leaves because BT didn't want to pay him and somebody else does this organization should fire him immediately. The only excuse acceptable is that he was set on leaving and I don't believe that is the case at all..I have a feeling Tre is trying to get him to sign below market value and holding to his guns and the closer we get to UFA, the more likely JG sees what the market is. This extension should have been done already, just pay the guy what he is worth.

Agree. If Treliving is trying to sign Johnny for below market value then that's another reason he should not be an nhl gm.

This team is sunk without Gaudreau. Especially if he walks for nothing instead of, at the least, getting some picks and prospects for him.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Kadri was…

For all the flack the Flames receive for their pro scouting, I think that trade would have worked out pretty favourably for them.

Kadri is a player that I'm not super keen on normally, but goddamn would he have solved a lot of this team's problems.

No idea why he kyboshed Calgary but I mean, if I were in his position and had to choose between Calgary and Colorado at the same time it'd be hard not to pick Colorado.

That being said though, I'm no Treliving booster, but I cant blame him on that one, he had a deal in principle, nothing he can do if a player doesnt waive their NTC.

[Sylvanfan]

Lets be real too. Kadri was only available because of a second playoff suspension. He sure helped Colorado in their elimination game last year while he was suspended again....it could have been a good deal. But the same group would be bringing up all the playoff losses because in critical moments, Kadri makes horrible decisions to take himself out of the lineup.

[Jore]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Stone who wouldn't have signed here

I keep seeing this but the only information I can dig up is from Friedman, who said the opposite:

I think if Calgary got him there, the Flames loved their chances of it (signing Stone long-term) eventually occurring. But word is Ottawa’s ask included Juuso Valimaki, and for the second year in a row Calgary rejected anyone’s attempts to pry loose the Finnish defenceman.

31 thoughts.

Seems like they didn't make the trade because they wouldn't move Valimaki.

All the Monahan discourse is funny too because I and some posters had been posting about his limits for a long time before his decline became so obvious. I distinctly remember advocating trading him after 2019.

Anyway, endlessly rehashing the minutiae of BT's moves or non-moves is pointless. He's had 8 years and has built an asset-poor team with no #1C or #1D that tops out at as maybe a one-round team if things go right.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I certainly never saw an élite top line center in Monahan, but I did see a productive center that can play with skill, which he was.

Getting Lindholm as a true north/south center gave the team a pretty deep center core with Backlund as a 3C and a great shut down guy.

But Monahan slides out of that productive role and now you have two 3Cs and it's not well constructed.

But yeah you can fire the guy if you want, as it didn't work and it's about results.

However like I said, if Monahan doesn't lose it on injuries it's a different discussion.

You don't fire Tre because he made a couple of bets that didn't work out. You fire Tre because his asset management and ability to assess talent is demonstrably poor.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

Lots of players have scored 20+ goals

The hope is that you have a GM who see past stat lines

Dude, you're not alone on this but why do people think they see/know things that Treliving doesn't?

Do you believe Treliving, and the management team, do not look at things other than stat lines? that is a ridiculous assertion that points more to how little you have thought about this than it does about the Flames and how they evaluate players.