American Politics Thread: Orange is the new POTUS

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

The party system/media bubble is one thing but you have to admit there is something to Trump when he beat everyone else in the Republican Nomination.

He crushed Golden Boy Rubio is his own state by 10 points. And that's Florida, not some perceived uneducated hick town.

Florida is just above West Virginia and Alabama for hickishness.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

No, you made fun of uneducated hicks. But the working class in the U.S. today is largely made up of uneducated hicks, which is why the Democrats are no longer the party of the working class.

The partisan divisions between Democrats and Republicans today mirror deep social divisions between educated urbanites on the coasts and uneducated rural Americans in the interior. Clinton won every one of America’s 493 wealthiest counties, which are almost all urban (The Retreat of Western Liberalism by Edward Luce).

The West has become a meritocratic knowledge economy, where the educated and adaptive 20 per cent reap the rewards while the uneducated provincial middle and working class see their quality of life relentlessly declining. 15 years ago it was not socially acceptable for liberals to mock the working class and poor. Now, snickering derision is perfectly acceptable because, after all, it's those morons' own fault. Why can't they all just learn to write code, move to Seattle, and get a condo?

The problem is what to do with the losers who can't adapt to new economic and social realities. Mocking them probably isn't a great solution, seeing as they still have the vote, and have shown themselves willing and able to throw a spanner in the works just to destroy the machine of progress.

are you saying, they are also snowflakes?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

No, you made fun of uneducated hicks. But the working class in the U.S. today is largely made up of uneducated hicks, which is why the Democrats are no longer the party of the working class.

You're going to have to define what you consider "largely made up of". Education in a lot of areas of the country is an issue, but to make a statement like that is just ignorant of the facts. Many working class people graduated from post secondary education, many have a high school diploma or GED, and many don't.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educ..._United_States

In this data from 2014, over 88% of Americans over the age of 25 had at least a high school diploma or GED, while 58% had at least some college. So if "uneducated hicks" largely make up the working class, where are all these democratic votes coming from if, according to you, the portion that the working class is largely made up of are voting republican?

[GirlySports]

I think it's unfair that the definition of 'educated' suddenly moved from a high school education to a post-secondary education. Only 20 years ago less than 25% of the population had degrees. Today it's at just under 50% but that counts pretty much anything.

In comparison, South Korea only has 28% official university graduates.

so when the media has a poll among educated and uneducated i don't know what that means.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

In this data from 2014, over 88% of Americans over the age of 25 had at least a high school diploma or GED, while 58% had at least some college. So if "uneducated hicks" largely make up the working class, where are all these democratic votes coming from if, according to you, the portion that the working class is largely made up of are voting republican?

This isn't 1978. High school diplomas mean nothing in today's economy. The class division is between those who have a post-secondary degree those who don't. The top 20 per cent are doing very well in today's economy. The rest are treading water or sinking. That 20 per cent corresponds very strongly with university education, living in a city with a strong economy, and voting Democrat.

The Dream Hoarders: How America's Top 20 Percent Perpetuates Inequality

And here is the difficult part. The popular obsession with the top 1 percent allows the upper middle class to convince ourselves we are in the same boat as the rest of America; but it is not true. However messily it is expressed, much of the criticism of our class is true. We proclaim the “net” benefits of free trade, technological advances, and immigration, safe in the knowledge that we will be among the beneficiaries. Equipped with high levels of human capital, we can flourish in a global economy. The cities we live in are zoned to protect our wealth, but deter the unskilled from sharing in it. Professional licensing and an immigration policy tilted toward the low-skilled shield us from the intense market competition faced by those in nonprofessional occupations. We proclaim the benefits of free markets but are largely insulated from the risks they can pose. Small wonder other folks can get angry....

- the Boston Review

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

All of what you say presupposes that liberal = Democrat and Republican = conservative. This is no longer true

True. Most Democrats in the U.S., however, still play lip service to egalitarianism.

[photon]

So that most recent missile test by NK is pretty impressive it seems, if the missile had flown a more typical trajectory it would be able to strike all of Alaska (and some of the Yukon if they ever wanted to nuke arctic Canada). Still a question if they're able to miniaturize their nukes to be able to fit on a missile.

Hours after the apparently successful test, intelligence agencies continued to run calculations to determine precisely how the missile, dubbed the Hwasong-14, performed in its maiden flight. But the consensus among missiles experts was that North Korea had achieved a long-sought milestone, demonstrating a capability of striking targets thousands of miles from its coast.

Initial Pentagon assessments said North Korea had tested a “land-based, intermediate-range” missile that landed in the Sea of Japan just under 600 linear miles from its launch point Panghyon Airfield, near the Chinese border. But government and independent analyses showed the missile traveling in a steep arc that topped out at more than 1,740 vertical miles above the Earth’s surface.

If flown in a more typical trajectory, the missile would have easily traveled 4,000 miles, potentially putting all of Alaska within its range, according to former government officials and independent analysts. A missile that exceeds a range of 3,400 miles is classified as an intercontinental ballistic missile, or ICBM.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...f47_story.html

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

This isn't 1978. High school diplomas mean nothing in today's economy. The class division is between those who have a post-secondary degree those who don't. The top 20 per cent are doing very well in today's economy. The rest are treading water or sinking. That 20 per cent corresponds very strongly with university education, living in a city with a strong economy, and voting Democrat.

The Dream Hoarders: How America's Top 20 Percent Perpetuates Inequality

Go ahead and open the link I provided, almost 60% of the population aged 25 or older have at least some college education. So take away the 20% you say are doing well, that leaves 40% of the population that would be considered "educated" workers. Considering Clinton got the popular vote, the numbers still don't support your position. Also your claim that the top 20% vote democrat is highly questionable at best.

[photon]

$50k income and below voted for Clinton 53-41
$50k to $100k voted for Trump 49-46
$100k+ voted equally 47-47

https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/poll...ps-voted-2016/

[direwolf]

It's hard to find any light at the end of the tunnel in regards to the disaster the U.S. currently finds itself in, but this article helps a little bit. It argues that despite the damage that Trump and the GOP are trying to inflict on the country, the checks and balances of the American system are still working for the most part...at least for now.

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/a...-donald-trump/

The president may rage against the media—bizarrely, he accuses the mainstream press of being “fake” even as he posts a doctored video from a professional wrestling match, the most artificial entertainment imaginable—but his ability to do anything more than vent on social media is decidedly limited. Thanks, James Madison, for drafting the Bill of Rights and, in particular, the First Amendment that protects our most precious liberties.

Trump has talked in the past about changing the libel laws, but that’s not something he can do by executive fiat. It will take an act of Congress, and the odds of such legislation passing are scant even in a Republican-dominated legislature.

Trump’s attacks on the press are, if anything, rebounding against him by simply encouraging even tougher coverage on the part of journalists determined to show they are not intimidated. This is not Russia or Venezuela. It does not take any real courage to flay the president in public, even if there is always the risk that some crackpot will be inflamed to violence by the president’s intemperate rhetoric.

Thanks to the bedrock protections of the Constitution, the FBI is not going to be rounding up the president’s critics and shipping them off to Alaska.

Trump has been able to do a few things by executive order, such as pulling out of the Trans-Pacific Partnership and the Paris climate accords, but he finds himself stymied, so far, in trying to push through vast changes in the health care and tax systems. That is as is should be: Trump has clearly not thought through what he would like to do in health care beyond “repeal” what his predecessor enacted, and thereby get a legislative “win.” As a result, the legislation is having a hard time moving through Congress. This is the system of checks and balances in operation.

[Thor]

Considering all the laughable moments from Trumps last trip to the middle east and Europe, I wonder what awesome moments he will give us this time around.

[schooner]

There were a few posts above, but I couldnt decide which one to post. So here is my anecdotal response. (Live in Canada, and talking about Canadians)

A little while back I attended a dinner party. Naturally, things turned political. One of my parents' friends was getting pretty worked up. My mother reminded me to hold back. Anyways, with the ground work set.

He was an immigrant himself. Migrated from the Netherlands to Canada many years ago. And he told me that it was upsetting to him that when he arrived at a Canadian airport he went through security and saw someone that was not "Canadian." So I challenged him on that fact that he did not meet his own definition of "Canadian." (Ie, white and brown v immigrant and citizen)

Anyways, I think this is the real issue of Canada and the USA. My person above was not malicious, actually he was a pretty nice guy. He even asked if my post secondary education "trained" me in being more tolerant. As if I was lucky to have "learned" the new way. Very strange.

I believe its the casual intolerance that takes the turn over in generations to eradicate. Like in many of the cp threads. Hopefully we can look back in 10 years and laugh at the comments. Hopefully.

[Kjesse]

Catching up on the thread and then see MikeRPG posts. What the hell? Good work mods locking that down fast.

He must be really fun at parties. If he ever gets invited to his first one.

[Kjesse]

So this is the lead story on CNN's webpage right now:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/04/politi...eet/index.html

This is another example of why I can no longer stand CNN. Sure he video was in bad taste, but it was also clearly satire, and captures what trump is trying to do... smackdown CNN in a fake world, which is his world.

But then CNN scares the guy who made the video into profusely apologizing and scared to lose his job and his family being ridiculed. And then it's the lead story that the guy apologized?

What a garbage channel/website. It used to be the only channel I watched once a day.

[FireGilbert]

Originally Posted by schooner

There were a few posts above, but I couldnt decide which one to post. So here is my anecdotal response. (Live in Canada, and talking about Canadians)

A little while back I attended a dinner party. Naturally, things turned political. One of my parents' friends was getting pretty worked up. My mother reminded me to hold back. Anyways, with the ground work set.

He was an immigrant himself. Migrated from the Netherlands to Canada many years ago. And he told me that it was upsetting to him that when he arrived at a Canadian airport he went through security and saw someone that was not "Canadian." So I challenged him on that fact that he did not meet his own definition of "Canadian." (Ie, white and brown v immigrant and citizen)

Anyways, I think this is the real issue of Canada and the USA. My person above was not malicious, actually he was a pretty nice guy. He even asked if my post secondary education "trained" me in being more tolerant. As if I was lucky to have "learned" the new way. Very strange.

I believe its the casual intolerance that takes the turn over in generations to eradicate. Like in many of the cp threads. Hopefully we can look back in 10 years and laugh at the comments. Hopefully.

Agreed there is a lot of casual intolerance in older generations that will hopefully seem laughable in time.

I had a similar conversation with my mother in law recently. She stayed with us in our multicultural Sydney neighborhood for a week and when about to go home to her very white small town in Queensland made a comment that she was looking forward to returning to "real Australia".

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by Delgar

Catching up on the thread and then see MikeRPG posts. What the hell? Good work mods locking that down fast.

He must be really fun at parties. If he ever gets invited to his first one.

I imagine he gets kicked out of a lot of parties, and then returns fifteen minutes later with a fake moustache but continues the exact same arguments he was in before.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by Delgar

So this is the lead story on CNN's webpage right now:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/04/politi...eet/index.html

This is another example of why I can no longer stand CNN. Sure he video was in bad taste, but it was also clearly satire, and captures what trump is trying to do... smackdown CNN in a fake world, which is his world.

But then CNN scares the guy who made the video into profusely apologizing and scared to lose his job and his family being ridiculed. And then it's the lead story that the guy apologized?

What a garbage channel/website. It used to be the only channel I watched once a day.

The guy who made that video also made this:

NSFW!

So I don't blame CNN for going after him. He's an alt-right piece of garbage. And I say that as someone who doesn't like CNN.

[Nyah]

Originally Posted by Delgar

So this is the lead story on CNN's webpage right now:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/04/politi...eet/index.html

This is another example of why I can no longer stand CNN. Sure he video was in bad taste, but it was also clearly satire, and captures what trump is trying to do... smackdown CNN in a fake world, which is his world.

But then CNN scares the guy who made the video into profusely apologizing and scared to lose his job and his family being ridiculed. And then it's the lead story that the guy apologized?

What a garbage channel/website. It used to be the only channel I watched once a day.

Twitter is all over this right now. It's amusing

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by Nyah

Twitter is all over this right now. It's amusing

Oh wow, #CNNBlackmail has some very clever posts.

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by DownInFlames

The guy who made that video also made this:

NSFW!

So I don't blame CNN for going after him. He's an alt-right piece of garbage. And I say that as someone who doesn't like CNN.

They're a news organization. Scratch that, used to be. They should be above this even if the guy is a ######.

Edit: it gets even better. CNN pulled a Trump and now claims he apologized before they ever contacted him (threatened to doxx him), in the face of a prior tweet where they said after "interviewing" him, he apologized.

Trump and CNN deserve each other.