Russia has surely shown no restrain in this awful unprovoked war. Do you believe it's a fair game to rape and torture Russians because that's what our troops did?
No. But I also don't think it's fair for Russian civilians to talk about "right" and "fair" at this point either. Your country and civilians are fair game for attack since the beginning of the unjust war they started.
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Originally Posted by calgaryblood
Looks like you'll need one long before I will. May I suggest deflection king?
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Internment of Canadian Germans in both world wars were a very real thing in Canada, and should this ever escalate to NATO involvement, war changes the 'bro out' mentality.
Yet the internment of Japanese Canadians was always taught to me as the second biggest black mark in Canadian history behind the treatment of Indigenous people.
Let's give Pointman a break guys, its real easy to slag him off for being Russian essentially but it's his country that despite what it is doing he still loves as we love Canada (and in my case Britain as well) and he also faces a long stretch in the kind of jail we cant even imagine for the things he types here let alone any actual action we are all flippantly suggesting he engage in.
He's in a #### place, I worry for him frankly
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Russia has surely shown no restrain in this awful unprovoked war. Do you believe it's a fair game to rape and torture Russians because that's what our troops did? Is it fair game to rape and torture some random Americans because if this:
You can't bomb propaganda away, that's not how propaganda works. It's not a physical thing.
But you can physically destroy a train because that's how trains work.
Well, you kind of can. You can bomb the source of it, media stations where it is generated. You can attack the infrastructure that allows it to spread. You can certainly reduce it.
But objectively speaking, all of Russia is fair game for Ukraine to attack, as Russia has shown zero restraint in their illegal unprovoked war. You must be able to recognize that.
Most of the people in the world felt that way about the U.S. and the Iraq War. Whatever the justice or injustice of that war, do you think blowing up American civilians at bus depots and malls in 2004 would have made Americans less supportive of the war, or more?
The notion of bringing home the cost of war to enemy civilians in order to break their will is seductive. It lets us believe we’re doing something useful while indulging our appetite for vengeance. But it almost never works. The Blitz didn’t break the will of the British, it steeled their resolve. Bombing Germany into rubble and killing hundreds of thousands in retaliation did not turn the German people against their regime. Neither did firebombing Japanese homes. Maybe those people killing us in the streets are in the right and we’re the baddies is not something you will compel more than a small fraction of people to believe. In Russia or anywhere else.
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Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
No. But I also don't think it's fair for Russian civilians to talk about "right" and "fair" at this point either. Your country and civilians are fair game for attack since the beginning of the unjust war they started.
Did Russian civilians start this war?
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"If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out?"
I'm skeptical we would ever consider something like that even in the event of total war, but I think people are misunderstanding the clash of civilization type thing that is happening in Ukraine.
Surprisingly, that's not even the wackiest thing in that post.
Russia has surely shown no restrain in this awful unprovoked war. Do you believe it's a fair game to rape and torture Russians because that's what our troops did? Is it fair game to rape and torture some random Americans because of this:
That feels like a bit of a straw man. Only one side is raping, and stopping that should be a priority. If that means Russian civilians are targeted, that's Putin's fault, not Ukraine. If you have a better idea of what Ukraine should be doing, go ahead and suggest it..
Well, you kind of can. You can bomb the source of it, media stations where it is generated. You can attack the infrastructure that allows it to spread. You can certainly reduce it.
That's not how media works.
If you bomb a factory, there's literally less thing x produced. If you bomb a news station, other news stations can instantly make just as much propaganda as before.
Propaganda isn't like fuel or ammo. Any one place can produce effectively infinite amounts of it, and you can produce it anywhere, you don't need a specific news station for it, those are mostly for convenience.
Surprisingly, that's not even the wackiest thing in that post.
I think an under discussed aspect of the end of Nazism in Germany was the denazification camps we sent 400k German POWs through between 1945 and 1950. We did force civilians to dig graves at extermination camps, but we also took their redeemable NCO officer core and reeducated them over months and years.
If you bomb a factory, there's literally less thing x produced. If you bomb a news station, other news stations can instantly make just as much propaganda as before.
Propaganda isn't like fuel or ammo. Any one place can produce effectively infinite amounts of it, and you can produce it anywhere, you don't need a specific news station for it, those are mostly for convenience.
If every propaganda news station gets bombed, how long before the "journalists" decide, nah, I'm good. Sure, some spreads through other means, but you take it off the airwaves that regular, brainwashed Russians see every day, and it reduces the message dramatically.
Of course it is an obvious risk that Ukranians fight back. Once they do, it would literally threat my family. From that point I will obviously have no choice but to do whatever it takes to keep my family safe. I will no longer have luxury of sitting on the couch and moralizing about how wrong Russia is (and they are very wrong). I, along with many Russians, will have to switch from "oh Lord what a HORRIBLE crimes our country is doing" to "oh boy, they are coming after us, we have to fight to survive" mode.
Maybe on a micro-level but on a macro-level the air raids conducted by the Allied forces on German lands was found to have the opposite effect you are suggesting. Or at least that's what the 1947 publication above said (wary of it being Allied propaganda would be reasonable):
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Bombing seriously depressed the morale of
German civilians. Its main psychological effects
were defeatism, fear, hopelessness, fatalism, and
apathy. "War weariness, willingness to surrender,
loss of hope for German victory, distrust of leaders, feelings of disunity and demoralizing fear were all more common among bombed than unbombed people.
I would note the huge differences between WW2 and the Ukraine invasion, especially duration so far, and not that you're wrong that hate begets hate, violence begets violence, and you could look at the Irish Troubles for an argument. But it's possible, if not likely, that the shift could be closer to "oh boy, they are coming after us, we have to end this war now"
That feels like a bit of a straw man. Only one side is raping, and stopping that should be a priority. If that means Russian civilians are targeted, that's Putin's fault, not Ukraine. If you have a better idea of what Ukraine should be doing, go ahead and suggest it..
You're angry but targeting civilians is the fault of those targeting civilians, doesn't matter who started it. Blowing up Putin sure, but blowing up Pointmans wife as a way to get back at the Russian state won't do a thing.
Cliff was hitting on it, an eye for an eye really won't help solve this.
Well today's post' are a lot more interesting than the previous days........... let's get back to updating and posting stories about the war as opposed to going at each other's neck's and emotions.
