Brad Treliving needs to go

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Exactly.

Eichel-Johnny/Backlund-Tkachuk might be marginally better than what we have today, but it would have further depleted an already near-barren prospect/youth pool. Also, it would have absolutely destroyed the 2021/2022 season as this team would have gone from November 4th until sometime in February with Monahan and Backlund as their #1 and #2 centres...which would have put this team down with Seattle/Buffalo in the standings.

It sucks, and we can certainly blame Treliving for all of his mistakes in building a prospect/youth pool that couldn't compete with a Krebs/Tuch offer, but once this deal got down to it Vegas had what Buffalo wanted.

Yeah I could have convinced myself, in the summer, that you could have survived with Monahan/Backlund for part of the season.
But I think we see now that would have been probably dead wrong.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Feaster trading Jaybo and Iginal was pretty much this.

Not happening this year though unless things really go south. It can't possibly get that bad.

Exactly. Unless the situation present itself it isn’t happening. But this isn’t a Calgary Flames issue it really is how most teams handle it. Most teams stumble into a rebuild and maybe keep it going but it usually starts with being a terrible team or having prolonged success and hitting a wall with age and the cap. Not because we are middle of the pack with a quality team.

Tampa got stamkos and hedman. But they made the playoffs in 06/07 and lost first round. They had 26 year old Lecavalier who had 52 goals and 108 points. They had 31 year old St. Louis with 102 points. They had Boyle Richards and so on. No chance that summer after losing in the first round did anyone suggest in the organization that they should dump St. Louis while we can get something for him. Dump Richards before his contract is up while he had big value so we can make a run at stamkos and hedman. That didn’t happen it wasn’t the plan it just happened for them. Maybe once they finished last did they embrace it the following year to get hedman and traded Richards. But it was not the plan until it happened

If the Flames can’t sign Johnny I wouldn’t be surprised if they clean house a bit. But the plan for now is to keep him.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Tuch has 4 more full years of control, Lindholm only has 2.

And Tuch is a bargain contract. And he’s from Buffalo.

[GioforPM]

The other thing is - lets say that offer is better than what Buffalo accepted from Vegas. Who’s to say Vegas doesn’t return that volley with something even better?

[Ped]

Not a Treliving fan by any means, but Vegas had a leg up for two reasons: 1) It's widely assumed Buffalo was particularly interested in Tuch because hes local and they have issues keeping players. Whether or not they consider Lindholm better, Tuch is the more attractive asset.


2) Because so many GMs misplayed the Vegas expansion draft, they ended up with a wealth of assets where they can afford to overpay. It's going to catch up to them eventually, but it's why they're always in the market.


Having said that, I've said it before and I still believe that eventually Vegas is going to run into problems always chasing after the shiny new toy on the market, because they have to lose guys to get those players, to fit them into the cap. They're clearly in win now mode, but they haven't really gotten better in terms of results, and when they sink, it might be quickly.


As for Treliving, you can point to a myriad of excuses and reasons and what not, but he hasn't been able to get it done, and he seems to be making a lot of the same mistakes. That's not his problem alone; it seems a lot of GMs do this, for a a variety of reasons. It doesn't mean he can't change, but sometimes change is needed, if at least for someone to just try something different.


30 years of franchise failure (mostly) has nothing to do with Treliving so laying that at his door is silly. But the last 7 years is on him, good or bad.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Ped

Not a Treliving fan by any means, but Vegas had a leg up for two reasons: 1) It's widely assumed Buffalo was particularly interested in Tuch because hes local and they have issues keeping players. Whether or not they consider Lindholm better, Tuch is the more attractive asset.


2) Because so many GMs misplayed the Vegas expansion draft, they ended up with a wealth of assets where they can afford to overpay. It's going to catch up to them eventually, but it's why they're always in the market.


Having said that, I've said it before and I still believe that eventually Vegas is going to run into problems always chasing after the shiny new toy on the market, because they have to lose guys to get those players, to fit them into the cap. They're clearly in win now mode, but they haven't really gotten better in terms of results, and when they sink, it might be quickly.


As for Treliving, you can point to a myriad of excuses and reasons and what not, but he hasn't been able to get it done, and he seems to be making a lot of the same mistakes. That's not his problem alone; it seems a lot of GMs do this, for a a variety of reasons. It doesn't mean he can't change, but sometimes change is needed, if at least for someone to just try something different.


30 years of franchise failure (mostly) has nothing to do with Treliving so laying that at his door is silly. But the last 7 years is on him, good or bad.

Vegas isn’t far off on having serious issues. Even if they figure it out this year what will the cost be? They are already down their best prospect and a first. If they dump and pick or 2 to shed cap to get Eichel on the team this season they will be hurting soon. Worth it imo but it’s not like they are a lock for 5 years of being cup favs

Pietrangelo is 32 in 4 days. Stone is 30 soon. Patches is 33. Martinez is 34. They have no good prospects or picks and do have a few quality rfas to resign this summer with no cap. They could still regret that trade

Treliving also shouldn’t be judged for the Flames lack of success over the last 30 years. He hasn’t been that bad of late as most his mistakes were a few years ago. I still think if he figures out the Gaudreau contract this team is positioned well for a few years.

[Doc Hudson]

My issue was the Neal signing, which I did not like at the time as it was not going to put us over the top. I don't fault him for the Lucic trade, but we wouldn't have had the opportunity to make that trade without the Neal signing. Having some money in the bank could of allowed some salary retained on Monahan and changed the shape of the possible Eichel deal. I don't know why we have wasted so much money on older used tires.

That said, I think Treliving should be allowed to go through the season with this team and if they have fallen out of the playoffs by the trade deadline should be instructed as his last act to get premium players for our FAs.

I hope however that Sutter rights the ship and the team learns how to play at home, and this thread is buried once again.

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Exactly.

Eichel-Johnny/Backlund-Tkachuk might be marginally better than what we have today, but it would have further depleted an already near-barren prospect/youth pool. Also, it would have absolutely destroyed the 2021/2022 season as this team would have gone from November 4th until sometime in February with Monahan and Backlund as their #1 and #2 centres...which would have put this team down with Seattle/Buffalo in the standings.

It sucks, and we can certainly blame Treliving for all of his mistakes in building a prospect/youth pool that couldn't compete with a Krebs/Tuch offer, but once this deal got down to it Vegas had what Buffalo wanted.

[dino7c]

Just a reminder the Flames have played 34 games, 12 home games

There is a TON to be decided

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Ped

Not a Treliving fan by any means, but Vegas had a leg up for two reasons: 1) It's widely assumed Buffalo was particularly interested in Tuch because hes local and they have issues keeping players. Whether or not they consider Lindholm better, Tuch is the more attractive asset.


2) Because so many GMs misplayed the Vegas expansion draft, they ended up with a wealth of assets where they can afford to overpay. It's going to catch up to them eventually, but it's why they're always in the market.


Having said that, I've said it before and I still believe that eventually Vegas is going to run into problems always chasing after the shiny new toy on the market, because they have to lose guys to get those players, to fit them into the cap. They're clearly in win now mode, but they haven't really gotten better in terms of results, and when they sink, it might be quickly.


As for Treliving, you can point to a myriad of excuses and reasons and what not, but he hasn't been able to get it done, and he seems to be making a lot of the same mistakes. That's not his problem alone; it seems a lot of GMs do this, for a a variety of reasons. It doesn't mean he can't change, but sometimes change is needed, if at least for someone to just try something different.


30 years of franchise failure (mostly) has nothing to do with Treliving so laying that at his door is silly. But the last 7 years is on him, good or bad.

I have said it for a few years now but the Flames should have hired a winning GM with experience. An experienced winner if you want to get from point A to point B a little sooner without some unnecessary mistakes. From the beginning, we saw Brad lean on what he anticipated would be the right coaches for this team which led to some hiccups, and a couple of coaches maybe over their heads, the 3 headed monster. The downside, maybe not getting the most out of the team overall, lost opportunities for Gio and Backlund. Sinking money into players who couldn't live up to their contracts, in turn, handcuffing the team's ability to perform while losing opportunities to add some higher caliber players. Unfortunately, these are mistakes other GMs make.


The team is in a slump, they just played some tough opponents and need to have a good game to get back on track. The Treliving thread gets bumped every time the team slumps but if they can be that hardest working team we saw earlier, get some wins in and do something useful at the deadline I think we can have a good playoff. I have seen enough, I still believe this team can start feeling it again.

For the future, the one thing the Flames need to do better is get rid of players who are past their due date while they still have value. Hanging onto Gio, Backlund until we can't exchange them for quality pieces only puts the team in steeper decline. Would like to see more trades like Hamilton and Ferland, putting the team back on the upswing. We need to know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em and when to em cash in.

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Just a reminder the Flames have played 34 games, 12 home games

There is a TON to be decided

Don’t wander into the new Markstrom thread!

Jokes aside though I agree we need to let a few more weeks play out here before panicking.

[DeluxeMoustache]

I agree

They just lost 3 in 4 nights to three of the very top teams in the league on that road trip. Then Ottawa was a bit of a trap game

It’s not a big deal at the current time

[PuckSlap]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I agree

They just lost 3 in 4 nights to three of the very top teams in the league on that road trip. Then Ottawa was a bit of a trap game

It’s not a big deal at the current time

Actually it is a big deal. You need to play at your best against the best. You need to not play down to the worst teams. The flames are not going to fare well against these teams if it comes down to a playoff run.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by PuckSlap

Actually it is a big deal. You need to play at your best against the best. You need to not play down to the worst teams. The flames are not going to fare well against these teams if it comes down to a playoff run.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The good news, they are working on it.. it is a stepping stone, you can't expect them to win every game. The Flames have to learn how to play teams loaded with star players, they just have to stick with their game and not run with those teams. They have done us proud so far, maybe level your expectations a bit? 3 games in 4 nights, no time for practice to face the next top team...? Let's give them a little slack.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Pessimists will always be right more often than optimists when it comes to sports
All but one team will fail to win a championship each year
A small fraction will have a satisfying playoff run
Most prospects will bust.
Few will be impact players.

Which is why being right isn't some sort of badge of honor or deserving of a trophy.
It's easy to be right by being negative.

You're right, winning it all is rare so it's easy to be right when saying the Flames won't win it all.

Problem for me is, this friggin organization can't even build a team that has a legit shot at winning it all.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

You're right, winning it all is rare so it's easy to be right when saying the Flames won't win it all.

Problem for me is, this friggin organization can't even build a team that has a legit shot at winning it all.

Or has a conceivable plan. That is the biggest problem with Brad, it is hard to understand what his plan is to try to win or build a consistently competitive team.

[TheChief]

Love seeing this thread bumped. Brad is just a bad GM plain and simple. Only saving grace is his ability to re-sign his players (which he is living off his reputation of his first few years), but his time to re-sign his most important player(13) during his tenure as Flames GM is fast approaching with no news on the horizon and the team looking to be in a dog fight to make the playoffs with the recent slump. What will Brad do? I guess we will wait and see, one thing we do know is that its a process for Boston Pizza JR. Can't wait to get a new GM.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Doc Hudson

My issue was the Neal signing, which I did not like at the time as it was not going to put us over the top. I don't fault him for the Lucic trade, but we wouldn't have had the opportunity to make that trade without the Neal signing. Having some money in the bank could of allowed some salary retained on Monahan and changed the shape of the possible Eichel deal. I don't know why we have wasted so much money on older used tires.

That said, I think Treliving should be allowed to go through the season with this team and if they have fallen out of the playoffs by the trade deadline should be instructed as his last act to get premium players for our FAs.

I hope however that Sutter rights the ship and the team learns how to play at home, and this thread is buried once again.

The Neal signing was, to me, the biggest, and most easily avoidable mistake. You could see the reasoning behind Brouwer and Hamonic. Those players just didn’t pan out. You could also see what he was trying to do with signing Neal, and getting Lindholm and Hanifin from the Canes (plus Ryan). But anyone with google could figure out that Neal wasn’t a good bet.

[TheChief]

Brad has had way too long a tenure for someone with so little success and many failures that have plagued us for years now. The organization needs fresh blood...someone who can have an honest look at the team and access without the bias of liking some of these guys on a personal level. Brad holds his players (esp prospects) like Oiler fans(media) do in WAY too high of regard.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The Neal signing was, to me, the biggest, and most easily avoidable mistake. You could see the reasoning behind Brouwer and Hamonic. Those players just didn’t pan out. You could also see what he was trying to do with signing Neal, and getting Lindholm and Hanifin from the Canes (plus Ryan). But anyone with google could figure out that Neal wasn’t a good bet.

The Neal signing was obviously bad, but the mistake there is the continual reliance on expensive veteran UFA’s.

The Hamonic trade wasn’t just a player not panning out. It was a weird mistake on multiple levels, overvaluing the player, misunderstanding the teams biggest needs and undervaluing the compensation you gave up.

But in the end the mistakes don’t define this GM, it’s the sum of the parts of what he has built with the time he has been given and the relatively clean slate he had to start with. Eight years later, we should at least be able to agree on what the plan has been.

That said, I still have some hope he can get some forward depth in here and the team goes on a little run.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

But he DID want Krebs badly.
And Tuch

Yeah, after the trade Adams said he wanted Krebs badly, what's he supposed to say? that's all Vegas had?

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Why do you think this beats Vegas package?

Assume the picks cancel out

Alex Tuch and Peyton Krebs for Linholm, Vali, and Pelletier

TBH Krebs is a much more attractive prospect then either Vali or Pelletier (Maybe Vali 2 years ago). Giving 2 less desired prospects does not add up to one higher upside (That we know Buffalo loved)

Aside from playing center ice Peyton Krebs is not any better than Pelletier, If I'm wrong please show me some kind of a metric that proves it

I would guarantee if Pelletier was called up and gifted 2nd line minutes he would have more than 2 secondary assists in 14 games and wouldn't be a -10 in those games. Peyton Krebs is quickly becoming the most overrated prospect since Rob Schremp.

If Adams would turn down Lindholm, Valimaki, Pelletier over Krebs and Tuch he would be fired on the spot.