The Canadian Men's Soccer Team Thread

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

There is none.

The solution might be to get out of concacaf and ask to join UEFA. I mean Toronto is closer to the UK than it is to Honduras.

Lmao. What about Astana or Baku to Vancouver?

[browna]

Originally Posted by shermanator

To summarize the money issue with Canada Soccer:

- The CSA blew their reserve fund to fund a World Cup qualification during the COVID years.
- The MNT have superstars who expect the national team give them the same first class treatment they get with their big European clubs.
- The WNT see the treatment the MNT gets and demands the same.
- The youth teams see the treatment the MNT and WNT want and demand money for youth camps.
- The CSA get a fixed revenue for media and sponsorship rights. The media rights are worthless anyways as no sports network will pay for them, and sponsorship deals are limited given that they compete with their own players to sign these deals.
- Nike puts no effort into merchandise as it doesn’t sell well enough for them to care. So your merch doesn't sell well.
- The CSA tried to raise fees from youth clubs and the provincial associations forced the CSA president out (thankfully) as a result.
- CONCACAF games don’t draw well, especially if tickets are not cheap.
- There are no opportunities for friendlies against European opponents as they have Euro 2024 qualifying during those windows.
- High profile South American teams are incredibly expensive to fly in, nor do those teams have anything to gain by playing Canada.
- The MNT refused to play the last friendly in Canada, so other national teams are weary to commit to friendlies here.

So, what’s the magical solution?

My position on this has been made clear, the CSA through mismanaging everything from the buisness side to media rights, has been low priority since the 90s, where political games are they need to come out ahead on and soccer is second, and soccer has come second, which has lead further deficits for funding as the years go by and nothing changes in the CSA.

It's a clear chicken an egg thing that's gone on for generations...mismamagement off the field is why there is no reserve fund, through mismanaging the team, the sponsors and networks have gone away. Without that funding they don't get better and then no on wants to spend money to sponsor.
Only when a coach has used the associations lack of support to help galvanize a team, did results come.

As to your points, will disagree on some. Again, the reserve fund was blown because it wasn't there. The arrogance shown when things came to light from Bontis and others was a small fraction of the attitude of waste and greed and power trips that had been going on for decades within the CSA, which alienates sponors to the point where no company wanted to deal with the mickey mouse CSA, which lead to third party private enterprise to come in and provide some structure and management and get a cut rate deal to collect anything they could muster up for soccer.

Herdman's ask before the Panama game was to have a longer camp and maybe a friendly. Doesnt equate to star players wanting lavish treatment.

Women's teams are going to get equitable treatment in this day and age. Youth teams no idea if they want any better treatment, but sure.

As far as Nike, Ill take world's top sportswear brand's business model over the CSA's demands. These are partnerships, where both sides have to bring something to the table. The lack of any sort of CSA being a partner is evident. The NT program doesn't even buy enough tracksuits to outfit the national teams without having to share. The CSA also has to be the ones to assist on ordering merchandise as part of their agreement...you think Nike has issues with production of hundreds of thousands of jerseys in a handful of months? But shortages of jerseys and basically anything else was evident when they would've sold like 2004 Flames jerseys in spring 2004, if there was stock from summer 2021 to 2022. Not helping either is the CSB fully in bed with Macron, so there is conflict there. Canada the only team not to have new kits before the WC2022, and that not due to lack of interest or resources by Nike.

The CSA botched the friendly with Iran due to not being able to read the room politically and socially in this country. The last minute replacement Panama friendly instead, and the players took a stand because it was no longer a tune up against a fellow WC side. I hardly think that cancellation makes teams think twice. Again, it's up to the CSA to develop even simple relationships with other countries to be able to stage friendlies...countries with smaller associations and less funding can do it, why is it so hard for an organization with 14 board members? Sure there are travel considerations and costs, but it appears there has been little effort to have a proper preparation campaign at any point even since Herdman has been around.

Is that because the CSB runs the show financially and can hide in the shadows and not have to answer?

Herdman's right, he shouldn't have to canvas to raise money for flights. And thos could be the window we need to have the best shot. Sure, with the expanded WCs now we should make it each year, but the talent, and most importantly the coaching that has this team have come together unexpectedly, may not be there post 2026.

Yes, the team needs sponsors, but 3 years out from a WC in a recession now, companies can wait a year or two before throwing support to get the most value for their investment.

And, those are the sponsors that are a) not leery of the past dealings with the slimy CSA, and/or b)not sure of dealings with the CSB, and/or c)Not leery of the investigations going on with the CSA and the federal government around the CSB deal, allegations of abuse etc.

Networks will jump in board when it's profitable for them, again, all 3 have had failed relationships with the CSA over the last 20 years so they know exctly what sort of delinquent partners they have in the CSA when jumping into bed with them. Copa America, probably may get Snet, but that tourney conflicts with Euros (TSN) next summer.

In short, no magical solution outside of a white knight corporation coming in and bypassing the CSA and CSB contracts to directly help fund the national teams (and only the national teams) on some sort of 5 year term. Not sure said sponsors could bypass those contracts, but that's what they need...the funding won't come from or be built up from, a broke CSA who gets a small annual allowance, nor from the CSB who are funding CPL losses for the next few years at least.

But that doesn't and shouldnt stop Herdman from contiuing to use his position and finally having a spotlight, to push the issues, when so many before him, players and coaches, for the national teams, had to deal with these issues, to an even greater degree, with no voice to bring light to these issues.

[shermanator]

Ah yes, some magical rich person is going to throw tens to hundreds of millions of dollars into the national programs, bypassing the group of people who've invested tens of millions into the professional game and national teams in the last 5 years.

Completely realistic.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Lmao. What about Astana or Baku to Vancouver?

Australia does it. They fly to Beirut!

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

My point is you don't pay money to stars of other teams. You pay money to see the stars of your own team, of which Canada has a few.

I agree, but the Gold Cup roster excludes some significant names. I get it - clubs need their investments to heal up for the next season. It isn't that this Canada roster isn't worth watching, but add in the opponent and the competition, it is a big ask.

But that kind of reinforces Slava's points: That's a LOT of money to watch Canada, minus some big names, to play against a regional minnow that isn't even a FIFA member. In a competition that unfortunately hasn't been marketed very well over the years.

Canada and Cavalry could both heed the same advice: set your price to reach that theoretical sweet spot (no empty seats, nobody left wanting), make more on food/beer/merch, and create a buzz. Get the next generation of kids interested early because (with all due respect to OneSoccer, of whom I am a fan) they aren't going to get exposed to through other avenues as easily these days.

[Ozy_Flame]

I'm not talking about the Gold Cup. I'm contending the point that we pay money to see the 'stars' of another team. We pay money for CMNT because they're getting infinitely better than they've ever been, they went on a hot streak, and they have 'stars' that obviously sell tickets.

Its also not like we are selling tickets to see stars like Vinicius Jr, Haaland or Messi. CMNT sells tickets with their own star power and performance on the pitch.

[M*A*S*H 4077]

https://www.tsn.ca/westhead-interim-...nces-1.1977583

Good grief. Now they’re potentially turning down games in the September window because they’re broke.

Women’s gold in 2021, men qualifying for 2022. Add in hockey Canada’s mess and that should’ve been a slam dunk for getting sponsorship money if they had a competent board.

Burn it down. Everyone who has a tie to soccer Canada prior to 2023 (other than Herdman) needs to be shown the door.

[shermanator]

So the men's national teams can't play friendlies against good opponents at a fairly reasonable cost because they need to make sure the women get friendlies at the same time, and they don't have enough cash to get both sorted? Yikes.

deVos said the men’s national team has already missed out on the chance to play matches against Korea and Saudi Arabia in September. deVos was days into his executive position with Canada Soccer when he was advised that a match agent (someone paid to broker games between national teams) had tabled an offer for Canadian men’s team to play Korea in England and Saudi Arabia in Austria during the September window.

Saudi Arabia was willing to offer Canada Soccer $500,000 to play, which meant the cost to the federation of playing both games in Europe would have been less than $200,000.

Beyond the fact that Canada, currently the No. 47 ranked national men’s team, had the opportunity to play credible competition – Korea is No. 27 and Saudi Arabia is No. 54 and both played in the World Cup in Qatar – having games in Europe would have had the added benefit of allowing Canada’s players with European club teams not to have to travel as far for training camps and games.

deVos said told an agent that he couldn’t immediately commit because he needed to explore the financial consequences of agreeing to the games. He said Canada Soccer officials believe that if the men’s national team plays in its international windows this fall, then the federation would need to ensure the women’s team also schedule games in their windows.

Playing two matches and running a camp in a single window can cost between $500,000 and $1 million per team (depending on whether teams need to book charter flights) and there is concern within Canada Soccer that having both senior national teams playing in their three windows this fall may further drain the federation’s cash.

[CroFlames]

The good part is that hardly anyone pays attention to Canada so I doubt other countries are laughing at us.

But if they were, this would be embarrassment of the highest order.

Freaking yikes man.

[shermanator]

I'm curious why we need WNT friendlies at the same time? Is it now imperative that both teams get friendlies at the same time in every window?

[GirlySports]

It doesn't make sense for CONCACAF to have a nation's league. That just makes windows of opportunity to play friendlies smaller.

Korea plays a ton of friendlies. This year alone, Colombia, Uruguay, Peru and El Salvador. They wanted to play Wales and Canada this September but Canada has backed out.

[Mccree]

Originally Posted by shermanator

I'm curious why we need WNT friendlies at the same time? Is it now imperative that both teams get friendlies at the same time in every window?

I suppose it look bad if they didn't have friendlies to both teams. Special treatment for the men vs women?

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by shermanator

To summarize the money issue with Canada Soccer:

- The CSA blew their reserve fund to fund a World Cup qualification during the COVID years.
- The MNT have superstars who expect the national team give them the same first class treatment they get with their big European clubs.
- The WNT see the treatment the MNT gets and demands the same.
- The youth teams see the treatment the MNT and WNT want and demand money for youth camps.
- The CSA get a fixed revenue for media and sponsorship rights. The media rights are worthless anyways as no sports network will pay for them, and sponsorship deals are limited given that they compete with their own players to sign these deals.
- Nike puts no effort into merchandise as it doesn’t sell well enough for them to care. So your merch doesn't sell well.
- The CSA tried to raise fees from youth clubs and the provincial associations forced the CSA president out (thankfully) as a result.
- CONCACAF games don’t draw well, especially if tickets are not cheap.
- There are no opportunities for friendlies against European opponents as they have Euro 2024 qualifying during those windows.
- High profile South American teams are incredibly expensive to fly in, nor do those teams have anything to gain by playing Canada.
- The MNT refused to play the last friendly in Canada, so other national teams are weary to commit to friendlies here.

So, what’s the magical solution?

Disagree the media rights are worthless now. TSN or Sportsnet would pay for them now. Sportsnet has a deal with Canada Basketball now which I can't imagine bring in more viewers than Canada Soccer.

Canada Soccer took a 10 year deal when they were worthless (because I assume they needed money). They had to know at least at that point they were likely going to have a men's team in the 2026 World Cup which would bring in a bunch of sponsorship money.

They couldn't have predicted Canada would win the woman's Olympics or qualify for the Men's World Cup in 2022. But they made a long term deal with no upside.

[Johnny199r]

Originally Posted by shermanator

I'm curious why we need WNT friendlies at the same time? Is it now imperative that both teams get friendlies at the same time in every window?

EqUaLiTy.

Now means the exact same things for both teams at the exact same time, every time, with no exceptions, ever.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

EqUaLiTy.

Now means the exact same things for both teams at the exact same time, every time, with no exceptions, ever.

no friendlies at the same time sounds good

[shermanator]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Disagree the media rights are worthless now. TSN or Sportsnet would pay for them now. Sportsnet has a deal with Canada Basketball now which I can't imagine bring in more viewers than Canada Soccer.

Canada Soccer took a 10 year deal when they were worthless (because I assume they needed money). They had to know at least at that point they were likely going to have a men's team in the 2026 World Cup which would bring in a bunch of sponsorship money.

They couldn't have predicted Canada would win the woman's Olympics or qualify for the Men's World Cup in 2022. But they made a long term deal with no upside.

Media rights are only worth something if broadcasters are willing to pay for them. Outside of the last qualifying cycle, broadcasters have not been willing to pay for them for decades.

Looking from now until 2026, there is really nothing appetizing out there to broadcast anyways. The CSA doesn't own the broadcasting rights to either the Women's World Cup or Copa America, and none of the Men's or Women's Gold Cup, Nations League, or Olympic Qualifiers are big enough draws to get broadcasters to pay up. I think their best shot at getting something is a high profile friendly, but we're at the point where that's not achievable.

I've stated it before, the CSA bet against Canadian soccer and took the guaranteed money for media and sponsorship rights, because at the time it was a significant improvement on what they were getting. Short term it was a no brainer, but once the men's national team started playing well for the first time in 30 years it quickly became a terrible deal. Where the CSA failed was both in the sheer length of the deal, and in putting in any sort of clause that shared revenue over and above a certain point so that they received more should the game actually grow in this country.

[browna]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Disagree the media rights are worthless now. TSN or Sportsnet would pay for them now. Sportsnet has a deal with Canada Basketball now which I can't imagine bring in more viewers than Canada Soccer.

Canada Soccer took a 10 year deal when they were worthless (because I assume they needed money). They had to know at least at that point they were likely going to have a men's team in the 2026 World Cup which would bring in a bunch of sponsorship money.

They couldn't have predicted Canada would win the woman's Olympics or qualify for the Men's World Cup in 2022. But they made a long term deal with no upside.

In addition, the CSA took the CSB deal just a few months in advance of the WC 2026 announcement, with the US CAN MX bid always the favourite. Even without the Olympics or 2022 WC, the lead up to 2026, even if the teams stunk, would have sold merch, interest would be enough for a network to make money in covering the team for 3 years.
And where does the $ for the host nations go, from FIFA (nevermind making the 2022 WC)? Did the CSA sign that guaranteed 2026 payday off to the CSB to collect?
Definitely DeVos is floating the situation out there, in response to, or, in conjunction with, Herdmans comments from last week…to push for direct corporate sponsorship and probably hoping the CSB ups the allowance.

But he, and Crooks, were at the CSA when this deal got pushed through by Bontis et. al. at the time. DeVos claims to be in lock step with the players because he was one himself, but none of the players knew of the csb deal at the time and he had to know it was not going to be a player friendly deal, which is why it was hidden from them. So his claims are pretty weak.

Sad all around decades of mismanagement of everything by people in it for personal selfishness have lead to this.

[Slava]

Brilliant management. The teams on the pitch have seen the best successes in decades (or ever for the women). Somehow we have zero dollars and might not even have friendlies this fall. Hopefully someone is having a look through the books to see what's going on.

[shermanator]

So the women have Olympic qualifiers in September which helps clarify why they were insisting on both.

[M*A*S*H 4077]

I do not understand Borjan starting tonight’s gold cup match one bit. Leadership? You have Vitoria there. And frankly it’s Guadeloupe, they can figure it out.

Excited to see Bombito and McGraw get starts. And Ali Ahmed. Hopefully Victor gets his first cap