Alberta Politics Thread

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

According to Flash_Walken and iggy_oi only the ones that choose to live modest and mediocre lives will get the rebate.

Those that strive to achieve something in their life should pay the full costs of the carbon tax.

Not accurate. And to be frank, your insinuation that the majority of the population aren't striving to achieve anything comes off as extremely arrogant.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Wiggum_PI

The interesting thing about a PST in Alberta, is that the government would have to hold a referendum before implementing the tax.

It's part of the "Alberta Taxpayer Protection Act"



http://www.qp.alberta.ca/documents/Acts/A36.pdf

I'm sure they could repeal that with their majority.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Notley was our Trump style revolt. Alberta wanted to punish the CP and this is the sole reason we are dealing with this. Zero chance the NDP lasts more than one term.

I actually think when you consider that the price of oil will likely continue to rise through 2017, and the fact that that should give our economy a pretty decent boost, many people may change their views of the NDP. The carbon tax is getting a lot of backlash because of the timing of its introduction. Voters tend to have a very short term memory, if the economy is doing well and people are happy it wouldn't surprise me at all to have the election in 2019 be much closer than most people are assuming it will be.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Nope. Abolishing the carbon tax will be the election promise that gets the next party in office. Comparing carbon tax to PST is apples to oranges.

No party serious about tackling the budget deficit will scrap the carbon tax. They might tweak it. But there's no way they'll forego that revenue.

[Bownesian]

Originally Posted by Slava

^While I somewhat stand corrected, this is a shell game. Some of those things were already included and I'm not sure that they're all new programs? Is the transit funding new for example or is this the green line they were already supposed to fund anyway?

The rebates are what we saw from day one. That is the largest piece of the puzzle that shows that this wealth redistribution masquerading as environmental policy.

And that $645mm piece is probably the 5 year cost to implement and administer this tax and coordinate rebates and things like that. Is that really creating jobs diversifying the energy industry?

It looks to me like much of this money is spent several times over as well, but if I were to break it down:

$6.2 billion will help diversify our energy industry and create new jobs:

Half is for energy, none for what I would call the Energy Industry as it currently stands - this heading is itself misleading. Should read "help grow renewable energy industry," because in Alberta, the Energy Industry is understood to include fossil fuels, which this largely excludes.

• $3.4 billion for large scale renewable energy, bioenergy and technology
  
  NDP appointees picking winners with a third of the take. This is not a recipe for success. This may include some tech investments for plant retrofits maybe.
  
  
• $2.2 billion for green infrastructure like public transit
  
  This is promised general revenue spending (i.e. from their election platform) on NDP priorities as yet unfunded future union jobs.
  
  
• $645 million for Energy Efficiency Alberta, a new provincial agency that will support energy efficiency programs and services for homes and businesses
  
  New unionized bureaucracy and maybe something for furnace/window retrofits or something?
  
  

$3.4 billion will help households, businesses and communities adjust to the carbon levy:

• $2.3 billion for carbon rebates to help low- and middle-income families
  
  Wealth transfer from richer to poorer, an ideological choice in line with NDP priorities.
  
  
• $865 million to pay for a cut in the small business tax rate from 3% to 2%
  
  In effect this is a wealth transfer from more successful companies to less successful ones.
  
  As an aside, I run a company that is in the neighborhood of the small/large business cutoff. This act of making the step between the two tax rates bigger only encourages companies like ours to stay below that line by driving up expenses, rather than investing in expansion with retained income. I'd rather have the step be more gradual, or dare I say progressive.
  
  
• $195 million to assist coal communities, Indigenous communities and others transition to a cleaner economy
  
  Cleaning up the mess they are creating (coal communities) though this dollar amount is off by $1 billion or so, and ideological spending in line with NDP priorities. Noteworthy is that our indigenous brethren don't have to pay any of the direct tax on fuel, perhaps this outlay is to defray their indirect costs on groceries etc.

[Bownesian]

If it were me, I would rebate the carbon tax as broad personal tax reductions (with a small rebate for those who don't pay provincial tax), and broad corporate tax reductions. This is what BC did and their experience has been a success.

That would actually be economically efficient, would encourage efficiency and would be cheap to implement (i.e. little wasted in government institutions).

What the NDP have planned is an ideologically driven wealth distribution and government growth boondoggle at all levels.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Not accurate. And to be frank, your insinuation that the majority of the population aren't striving to achieve anything comes off as extremely arrogant.

Not the majority of the population. Just folks like you who think its better to make less money to qualify for government subsidies.

You are doing a disservice to yourself, your family, and your nation.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Not the majority of the population. Just folks like you who think its better to make less money to qualify for government subsidies.

You are doing a disservice to yourself, your family, and your nation.

When did I say any of that?

I would consider the personal attack about my "disservice" to myself, my family and my nation as crossing the line if it wasn't so ludicrously unfounded. Have you considered for a minute that I won't actually qualify for these rebates either?

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Not the majority of the population. Just folks like you who think its better to make less money to qualify for government subsidies.

You are doing a disservice to yourself, your family, and your nation.

What are you even talking about? No one WANTS to have to qualify for government subsidies. If you offered anyone who needs these subsidies a choice between staying where they are or making more money and not getting them they take the more money every time.

What arrogance to assume that people who need these services are simply lazy, or work any less than you. These are hard working people trying to make a living and trying to get ahead. When 60%.. Let me say that again.. 60% of people in the province will receive a rebate then yes that is a majority of the population you are calling out.

Get over yourself, I am glad you are able to be in a position to not need a subsidy, to not need any assistance in your magnificent life. But the fact is there are thousands of hard working people doing the best they can to get ahead and just can't in a society that constantly enables the rich to become richer on the backs of the poor.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

So this surcharge will be the equivalent to if fuel prices went up 6-7 cents per litre?

What is the point you're trying to make?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

What is the point you're trying to make?

Their costs fluctuate all the time, the fact that they announce a move such as this isn't about their concerns for their customers, it's a way of creating public pressure to get rid of the tax all together. They could easily have just added it into their fuel charges per load as they would do with any regular increase, the fact that they are making an announcement like this indicates to me that there is a motive behind it that has nothing to do with the fact that it will cost their customers more, unless they have a long history of announcing increases/decreases to their fuel costs publicly.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Their costs fluctuate all the time, the fact that they announce a move such as this isn't about their concerns for their customers, it's a way of creating public pressure to get rid of the tax all together. They could easily have just added it into their fuel charges per load as they would do with any regular increase, the fact that they are making an announcement like this indicates to me that there is a motive behind it that has nothing to do with the fact that it will cost their customers more, unless they have a long history of announcing increases/decreases to their fuel costs publicly.

Airlines and trucking companies implement fuel surcharges all the time to compensate for high gas prices and usually peg them to some gas price.

Yes it's marketing but it does allow them to keep consistent pricing accross multiple regulatory environments

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by belsarius

What are you even talking about? No one WANTS to have to qualify for government subsidies. If you offered anyone who needs these subsidies a choice between staying where they are or making more money and not getting them they take the more money every time.

What arrogance to assume that people who need these services are simply lazy, or work any less than you. These are hard working people trying to make a living and trying to get ahead. When 60%.. Let me say that again.. 60% of people in the province will receive a rebate then yes that is a majority of the population you are calling out.

Get over yourself, I am glad you are able to be in a position to not need a subsidy, to not need any assistance in your magnificent life. But the fact is there are thousands of hard working people doing the best they can to get ahead and just can't in a society that constantly enables the rich to become richer on the backs of the poor.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...postcount=5537

Read the post above.

I am not calling out people that work hard that get a subsidy.

I am calling out those who believe you should not work as hard as you could to get a subsidy as indicated above by Flash and liked by iggy.

I am as humble as a person as you can get. My family came from nothing.

My dad purchased old police cars from auctions because they were cheap. My dad wore old clothes and we grew up in a modest 900 square foot home before we moved into something bigger. He did this so he could put me and my sister through school.

We worked and we made something out of ourselves. And for that we gladly pay more in tax and others.

What angers me is that some of the programs like the CTax rebate are not universal like health care. If you can't understand that, I can't help you.

To say I am arrogant because you falsely believe I think most Albertans are lazy illustrates that you have not read all the posts or don't understand what you are reading.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...postcount=5537

Read the post above.

I am not calling out people that work hard that get a subsidy.

I am calling out those who believe you should not work as hard as you could to get a subsidy as indicated above by Flash and liked by iggy.

I am as humble as a person as you can get. My family came from nothing.

My dad purchased old police cars from auctions because they were cheap. My dad wore old clothes and we grew up in a modest 900 square foot home before we moved into something bigger. He did this so he could put me and my sister through school.

We worked and we made something out of ourselves. And for that we gladly pay more in tax and others.

What angers me is that some of the programs like the CTax rebate are not universal like health care. If you can't understand that, I can't help you.

To say I am arrogant because you falsely believe I think most Albertans are lazy illustrates that you have not read all the posts or don't understand what you are reading.

Do conservatives all share the same talking points among themselves about coming from humble beginnings, pulling themselves up by their bootstraps, and god damn it, why can't everyone do what I did?

I don't even know how to speak to conservatives anymore, they're so far in their own little right wing bubble.

[GGG]

^^ are you against progressive taxation brackets and property value based taxes as well?

Or say welfare or OIS?

[Red]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

Do conservatives all share the same talking points among themselves about coming from humble beginnings, pulling themselves up by their bootstraps, and god damn it, why can't everyone do what I did?

I don't even know how to speak to conservatives anymore, they're so far in their own little right wing bubble.

Don't forget their best point, only the lazy are poor.
Because we all know that the guy working at a mine 12 hours a day to support his family of 5 is a lazy loser.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Red

Don't forget their best point, only the lazy are poor.
Because we all know that the guy working at a mine 12 hours a day to support his family of 5 is a lazy loser.

To be fair, a guy working at a mine 12 hours a day in Canada today is very far from poor. Easily in the top 30 per cent in income.

Most of the working poor today work in service. They're the people who pour your coffee, help you find stuff at RONA, and delivery your pizza.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...postcount=5537

Read the post above.

I am not calling out people that work hard that get a subsidy.

I am calling out those who believe you should not work as hard as you could to get a subsidy as indicated above by Flash and liked by iggy.

I am as humble as a person as you can get. My family came from nothing.

My dad purchased old police cars from auctions because they were cheap. My dad wore old clothes and we grew up in a modest 900 square foot home before we moved into something bigger. He did this so he could put me and my sister through school.

We worked and we made something out of ourselves. And for that we gladly pay more in tax and others.

What angers me is that some of the programs like the CTax rebate are not universal like health care. If you can't understand that, I can't help you.

To say I am arrogant because you falsely believe I think most Albertans are lazy illustrates that you have not read all the posts or don't understand what you are reading.

The part that you are not getting is that all Albertans who qualify can get the rebates. Same as healthcare, if you're sick, you get help, if you're not you don't, because you don't need it. You were complaining about not qualifying so flash gave you option. He didn't suggest, not have I, that anyone should strive to get subsidies. People are saying you come off as arrogant because you are making statements about people based on the fact that they qualify for a subsidy. That's not being humble, your dad would have likely welcomed a little hell while you were growing up, I'm not sure what programs and grants were available at that time, but this attitude that because you didn't get it so no one needs it is really ignorant to the facts that times have changed and not everyone has the exact same upbringing.

[jammies]

Negatory!

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by GGG

Airlines and trucking companies implement fuel surcharges all the time to compensate for high gas prices and usually peg them to some gas price.

Yes it's marketing but it does allow them to keep consistent pricing accross multiple regulatory environments

I understand that, that's why I'm saying it's somewhat of an unnecessary announcement.