Brad Treliving needs to go

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

There is a lot of lose in that approach though.

This team will not be in a selling position at the deadline and chances they lost Gaudreau for nothing is high.

I would hate for this team to be starting a rebuild after they traded Pelletier and a 1st for a handful of games of Hertl.

It feels like they will target a depth Dman or maybe bring Gio back and sniff around a forward but hopefully not pay the price to get a guy like Hertl or Giroux who will certainly cost a 1st+

Poor cap management has this team in tough to keep their bubble squad together let alone add.

I fully support a new GM and have since another disappointing offseason concluded.

True. Basically, it's another year of hoping they either are firmly in a divisional playoff spot or lose every game between now and the deadline. This franchise doesn't have the stones to something dramatic unless at either end of the spectrum.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

I’m talking about the Eat Bread and Tkachuk situations. The ‘fan’ I quoted has a history of coming up with worst case scenarios for this team. As for Johnny maybe he walks, maybe he signs for 7 years, maybe both sides have an idea what a deal will look like and are going to complete it after the season. None of us know anything right now.

You can question someone as a fan as long as you want but for the last 30 yrs including 7 yrs under Treliving, the doubters have been right and the ones questioning/attacking them were proven wrong….multiple times

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

You can question someone as a fan as long as you want but for the last 30 yrs including 7 yrs under Treliving, the doubters have been right and the ones questioning/attacking them were proven wrong….multiple times

So it's about being right?

That's kind of sad.

It's a hockey team. You're a fan. Having hope and not seeing the worst possible outcome is ok right? Cornering the market on doom and gloom isn't a badge of honor.

Honestly don't get why you're a fan ... and that's not questioning if you are one ... I just don't see the point with what you bring to the table.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Pessimists will always be right more often than optimists when it comes to sports
All but one team will fail to win a championship each year
A small fraction will have a satisfying playoff run
Most prospects will bust.
Few will be impact players.

Which is why being right isn't some sort of badge of honor or deserving of a trophy.
It's easy to be right by being negative.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The team up the road road shows that a team can struggle to rise above mediocrity even with two superstars. And Eichel has never shown himself to be at the level of McDavid or Draisatl.

If Eichel alone is such an incredible difference-maker, why did the Sabres suck so bad? Emptying the chamber to bring in Eichel almost certainly would have made the Flames a worse team.

I said it in the game thread yesterday...and I would take it with a grain of salt because it's a bit of an unsubstantiated rumor from a source that I'm not sure I fully trust...

But a friend's "source" was adamant that Buffalo's ask of the Flames was Lindholm, Top Prospect, 2 1sts as the starting point, and Buffalo would only make a deal if Lindholm was included.

Which I think you can start to question if that's worth it.

GSVA is Dom Luszczyszyn of The Athletic's player model and this is the last 4 years for each guy.

Lindholm:
18-19: 3.2 GSVA
19-20: 1.6 GSVA
20-21: 1.6 GSVA
21-22: 2.8 GSVA (End of year projected)

Eichel:
18-19: 3.1 GSVA
19-20: 2.8 GSVA
20-21: 0.6 GSVA (Projected 1.6 GSVA if he played full season)
21-22: 2.6 GSVA (Projected had he been healthy this year)

So considering that their actual on-ice impact might not be that different, and since Lindholm costs $4.85M, and Eichel costs $10M...I could see why Treliving might have been hesitant to pull that trigger, and that's before you consider the injury/surgery risk.

That would check out from the "Flames were in on it, but never close" statement from Friedman. Would also make sense if Buffalo see's Tuch/Lindholm as similar pieces, which from a salary cap hit / contract perspective they are in the same realm.

I'm not sure Flames would be willing to part with Lindholm +++ in that move all things considered, and if he was the starting point for Buffalo that would have been tough.

[Poe969]

I don't think its about being right. It's about wanting something good. For a couple of years, some have been saying that this team doesn't have what it takes and needs change. Other fans step in and tell them they're too negative or they don't know what they're talking about and be passive aggressive towards them.

Wanting your favourite team to make changes doesn't make you less of a fan. When other fans question why you're even a fan it's not cool. It's like saying you're only a "real fan" if you drink the koolaid and say everything is great and whatever the team does is good. What you bring to the table is a different opinion. It's not that you dont' have hope, it's just that you hope for different things. I hope the team realizes that the players they've assembled aren't good enough to compete and I hope they make some changes because at least we get some sort of change.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

You can question someone as a fan as long as you want but for the last 30 yrs including 7 yrs under Treliving, the doubters have been right and the ones questioning/attacking them were proven wrong….multiple times

Have fun being a doubter. Must be an exhausting and draining way to be a ‘fan’. But if endless negativity is your thing, you do you.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I don't think its about being right. It's about wanting something good. For a couple of years, some have been saying that this team doesn't have what it takes and needs change. Other fans step in and tell them they're too negative or they don't know what they're talking about and be passive aggressive towards them.
.

Not sure how true this is. As an example I've been advocating for change for a long time, particularly to the forward group. I'm also someone who gets tired of the negativity when it is constant.

To be blunt - I think there is a subset of people on this site who care too much about being right.
And what I get tired of is baseless negativity. There are a ton of people who offered smart and thoughtful criticism.
Then there are a small number who post irrational and poorly thought through negative thoughts about everything. And sadly - they also post a lot.
I get tired of those people.

[Stanley]

Can we please call up Valimaki and end this godamn Zadorov experiment?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

They certainly aren’t a thing for Treliving.

Division Rival Vegas added an elite #1 centre just this season though…so it still happens, just not here, and not with this GM.

I definitely think you’re right though - Flames fans hoping for a mid-season move to help the team? Get prepared for disappointment, unless Treliving has his back up against the wall and tries to save his job.

Okay, that’s one significant mid-season trade in 2021-22.

In 2020-21 we had:

Dubois/Laine

In 2019-20:

The Taylor Hall deal


So 26 of the league’s GMs have not made a significant midseason trade in the last three seasons.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Bingo

So it's about being right?

That's kind of sad.

It's a hockey team. You're a fan. Having hope and not seeing the worst possible outcome is ok right? Cornering the market on doom and gloom isn't a badge of honor.

Honestly don't get why you're a fan ... and that's not questioning if you are one ... I just don't see the point with what you bring to the table.

I hate this topic of fan optimist vs pessimist.

I think the flames hit a very very polarized place with their fan base with this core. The great start and buy-in to the sutter way, helped to calm much of the angst, but I think fans will, whether it's considered fairly or unfairly, turn on this group pretty quick if they start to see it's a core with the exact same deficiencies we have complained about over the past several years.

Personally, I'm not their yet. The top line is still generating a ton. It just feels like the remaining 3 lines have lost their way. Even if they aren't scoring, they should be winning their shifts possession and chance wise. That is no longer the case, other than the top line, the other lines, especially last night, were more or less rag dolled.

I actually am not concerned about secondary scoring amongst the bottom 3 lines bug rather that they have fallen back to an identity-less group. This is a problem I do believe sutter can rectify.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Stanley

Can we please call up Valimaki and end this godamn Zadorov experiment?

Think valimaki is hurt....

[Bunk]

We are plunging into the middle of the pack death zone again. Our depth just isn't good enough. Poop or get off the pot. Perpetual mediocrity is the worst. Again, if we're at all likely to lose Johnny in the off season, just go all in. Try and get the cup with some big bold moves. If it fails, fine.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by Bunk

We are plunging into the middle of the pack death zone again. Our depth just isn't good enough. Poop or get off the pot. Perpetual mediocrity is the worst. Again, if we're at all likely to lose Johnny in the off season, just go all in. Try and get the cup with some big bold moves. If it fails, fine.

Our chances of winning the cup with this group and any addition are somewhere between very slim and none. If Johnny's walking trade him at the deadline for a 1st and some prospects and let the rebuild begin.

Edit. And fire Treliving.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Bunk

We are plunging into the middle of the pack death zone again. Our depth just isn't good enough. Poop or get off the pot. Perpetual mediocrity is the worst. Again, if we're at all likely to lose Johnny in the off season, just go all in. Try and get the cup with some big bold moves. If it fails, fine.

Tough to mortgage the future if you are heading toward a rebuild. Big deadline adds rarely result in cup wins

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

If you are asking if after 7 years of being in my role knowing that anything other than a drastic improvement in results is what is required to keep my job then I would definitely be more willing to take a risk.

Is this in fact the case? how do you know?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Is this in fact the case? how do you know?

Making an educated assumption based on an ownership group who demands playoffs that they would move on from an individual who has been able to get this team to the playoffs in 4 of 7 years with only a single round playoff victory (largely with the team he inherited) and coming off a miss. In addition he has managed the team to a spot where they are heard pressed to keep their upcoming UFA’s because of the bulky contracts handed out to guys better suited in the bottom 6.

If Treliving’s job is not at risk then I question the ownership group.

Darryl got better results and was fired for less. He missed the playoffs once as GM with over 90pts and was fired halfway through a season where the team finished with 94pts.

Why does Brad get a much longer leash? He has already had 5 head coaches to work with.

[redmile04]

Originally Posted by Bingo

So it's about being right?

That's kind of sad.

It's a hockey team. You're a fan. Having hope and not seeing the worst possible outcome is ok right? Cornering the market on doom and gloom isn't a badge of honor.

Honestly don't get why you're a fan ... and that's not questioning if you are one ... I just don't see the point with what you bring to the table.

You just love criticizing those who accept reality? I don't see the point with that and what that brings to the table.

They have passed the first round twice in 30+ years, give it a break with your false optimism.

He can be a fan and be realistic and not delusional. Theres actually nothing wrong that just because you dont think he should be a fan, doesnt mean he cant be a fan in his own way.

This is a weak franchise, thats a fact, not an opinion. We can still be fans, for whatever reason, local, were a fan before, etc.

[redmile04]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

You can question someone as a fan as long as you want but for the last 30 yrs including 7 yrs under Treliving, the doubters have been right and the ones questioning/attacking them were proven wrong….multiple times

Absolutely correct. Factual.

[Macho0978]

It’s a bit early to be getting this negative this quickly. This team was rolling then Covid happened and this team has hardly played in a month and probably had stretches where the couldn’t even skate due to being stuck at home. This team has had a lot of positive things and if you look at what has held this team back for the last few years some of these things are resolved or about to be resolved

1. Gios age. This team has moved on from Gio and done a very good job without him when it didn’t look like it was possible to replace him from within
2. Gaudreau and Monahans decline. Appears to be just Monahans decline but he has 1 year left on deal
3. Lucic contract. 1 year left
4. Lack of prospects. Treliving traded picks to build the core and more for rentals. Last 2 drafts we have had a surplus of picks and 3 years in a row with a first. This area is improving quickly.
5. Goaltending. Not only has markstrom overall been good but Vladar has too and Wolf might be the best goalie in the ahl. Stockton is one of the best teams being carried by kids

The Gaudreau contract situation is the decision that must get dealt with soon. If treliving does well there I don’t see why this team’s situation isn’t considered to be better now than even last off season