Official WWE/ECW/WCW/TNA talk, or whatever v2

[Muta]

That Omega-Fletcher match this week on Dynamite was an absolute banger.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by LIP MAN

Man, reading this, and watching WWE just to see what’s happening. What about that product is really good? Outside of Dom, KO and Zayn WWE has some okay matches and Judgement Day. But it honestly still has a dinner theatre vibe to it. It’s very much predictable and sort of boring. Not sure how it passes while another product is out there working with adult storylines and themes. He’ll, Adam Cole is injured and they’re using him super well.

Like anything it's all subjective. Many don't see what is so special about AEW either.

And that's ok because we all can't like the same things.

[Blaster86]

I would describe AEW stories in a lot of ways. "Adult Stories and themes" are not two of them.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by LIP MAN

Man, reading this, and watching WWE just to see what’s happening. What about that product is really good? Outside of Dom, KO and Zayn WWE has some okay matches and Judgement Day. But it honestly still has a dinner theatre vibe to it. It’s very much predictable and sort of boring. Not sure how it passes while another product is out there working with adult storylines and themes. He’ll, Adam Cole is injured and they’re using him super well.

Quick question: do ratings include streaming?

Neither is all that good to be honest right now. I mean yeah Dom is absolutely awesome at what he does and LA Knight is pretty much red hot right now.


But it doesn't have a marquee feel to it.


The AEW I watch still has the same feeling to it that chased me away.


As for Sting, all I can pray is that they don't do anything stupid. Have a good build, Have Sting go out, do a tussle, a stinger splash a couple of yells and a Scorpion Death Lock. Don't have him going on the top rope, or going through a table face first or any other BS.

[rubecube]

Ugh. AEW, what are you doing? Omega vs. MJF on your free B show before a PPV where MJF is scheduled to defend against Jay White? This should have been saved for Revolution or DoN next year where the outcome wouldn't be so predictable.

[trackercowe]

Yeah Omega vs MJF is a money match. Probably their two biggest performers... A very puzzling situation. I imagine in ends in a swerve and we don't get a true winner. Yet AEW only has so few "A-level" talents, and they're wasting this one on a B Show no one watches. Maybe this was Omega's idea... but they gotta stop hot shotting dream matches.

Oh and is anyone else sick of Ric Flair? I know he's a "legend", but for everything that's come out over the past few years I wish he'd just go away for good. Even Hogan looks like an angel standing next to Flair.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by trackercowe

Yeah Omega vs MJF is a money match. Probably their two biggest performers... A very puzzling situation. I imagine in ends in a swerve and we don't get a true winner. Yet AEW only has so few "A-level" talents, and they're wasting this one on a B Show no one watches. Maybe this was Omega's idea... but they gotta stop hot shotting dream matches.

Oh and is anyone else sick of Ric Flair? I know he's a "legend", but for everything that's come out over the past few years I wish he'd just go away for good. Even Hogan looks like an angel standing next to Flair.

It's also on Halloween Saturday, which means it'll be bad numbers no matter what.

Just colossally stupid.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Ugh. AEW, what are you doing? Omega vs. MJF on your free B show before a PPV where MJF is scheduled to defend against Jay White? This should have been saved for Revolution or DoN next year where the outcome wouldn't be so predictable.

Its hotshot booking to boost TV ratings. Eric Bishoff did it with WCW when he got obsessed with TV ratings in the war with WWE. He threw away matches for free for no good reason at all. Remember the epic match between Hogan and Goldberg took place on a Nitro and in doing that he threw away a ton of money for a PPV match, but Eric could brag one last time at winning the ratings battle.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Ric Flair is still going?

Might be the most overrated wrestler in the history of wrestling. All he did was those flips over the turnbuckle and got 5 star matches.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by trackercowe

Yeah Omega vs MJF is a money match. Probably their two biggest performers... A very puzzling situation. I imagine in ends in a swerve and we don't get a true winner. Yet AEW only has so few "A-level" talents, and they're wasting this one on a B Show no one watches. Maybe this was Omega's idea... but they gotta stop hot shotting dream matches.

Oh and is anyone else sick of Ric Flair? I know he's a "legend", but for everything that's come out over the past few years I wish he'd just go away for good. Even Hogan looks like an angel standing next to Flair.

Its a problem when you have a booker or head writer that's lost sight of building things out and is just throwing out what he thinks are dream matches, but there's no real reason for the match to take place.

Going back to WCW like I did find above, because I see a lot of comparibles between AEW and WCW.

I forget which PPV it was, but there wasn't good build up. To the fact that the PPV company put out an ad that read "We don't know who's fighting and why, but for god sakes don't miss it". Dream matches are great for video games, they really are. Great matches are great for PWI illustrated, remember they used to Kayfabe article Hogan running into Sting in a bar and glaring eye to eye and speculating on who would win.

But in the end, Dream matches don't sell tickets or PPV's because they have no reason to happen, and there's no reason for the two to want to beat each other up.

Also, yeah, I don't have any interest in seeing Flair anymore, the reveal of the plane flight from hell, and other things should have kept him off of TV, just like his awful final match.

Tony is desperate for ratings and growth, and ticket sales and PPV buys. AEW isn't in financial trouble, Tony and his Dad have a ton of money. But things have to change.

Booking huge arena's and then seeing them half or 3/4 empty is a concern.
Their ratings not crowing and pretty much the collapse of Collision and Rampage has to be concerning when it comes to negotiating new deals. The what I would call stagnation of their A show where they're not growing the brand and chewing up their main fan base has to be concerning.

There are some really good things with AEW, Christian, MJF really come to mind. but a lot of everything else goes from meh to cringe.

Hey WWE isn't all that much better right now, there's not a lot of intriguing things happening on the main roster that I want to tune in to. I certainly don't watch the hours of wrestling per week that I used to thanks to the fast forward button, if I bother to watch at all.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Ric Flair is still going?

Might be the most overrated wrestler in the history of wrestling. All he did was those flips over the turnbuckle and got 5 star matches.

Yeah, its a major case of Georgeous George syndrome.



I would hope that they're not going to put him into matches at all. Please, please please.


I was never a huge fan of Ric Flair, especially in the later days. He really needed people to bring the best of him out. As a heel manager or mouth piece, I think he's probably still great.


But anyone that watched that "last match" of his, will tell you, that he should never get in the ring again.


I still expect that he's going to be found dead some day with a bottle clutched in his hands.

[trackercowe]

I do wonder if MJF is getting overexposed as well? You're having him open the next PPV with the ROH titles, a feud with Juice over the ring, a match with Kenny, a feud with Jay White, adding Samoa Joe as protection, an off-screen bromance with Adam Page, a quasi-feud with The Kingdom, and don't forget the program with The Acclaimed! How can he be featured in so many programs at once? He's all over AEW these days. I feel bad for the guy as he is being asked to carry so much. There's also whatever is going on with Wardlow!

Too much exposure isn't necessarily a good thing. If Freeman ever went down with an injury they would be a deep gap in talent depth, as everything is running through him right now.

Oh and was Danielson hurt again last night? They should be careful with how he is being handled as well. Especially since this is his final year, his matches should be featured in mainevent calibre situations, not random shows. Like Captain has said before, Tony and Co. need to protect Danielson from himself.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I still expect that he's going to be found dead some day with a bottle clutched in his hands.

And really when it happens I'll be more surprised still that it didn't happen sooner.

The guy is 74 years old!

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by trackercowe

I do wonder if MJF is getting overexposed as well? You're having him open the next PPV with the ROH titles, a feud with Juice over the ring, a match with Kenny, a feud with Jay White, adding Samoa Joe as protection, an off-screen bromance with Adam Page, a quasi-feud with The Kingdom, and don't forget the program with The Acclaimed! How can he be featured in so many programs at once? He's all over AEW these days. I feel bad for the guy as he is being asked to carry so much. There's also whatever is going on with Wardlow!

Too much exposure isn't necessarily a good thing. If Freeman ever went down with an injury they would be a deep gap in talent depth, as everything is running through him right now.

I actually think this was supposed to be part of the story.

Heel Max would always say "You have to pay me to wrestle" and part of the persona was that he wouldn't work the random shows.

And now Face Max is everywhere and is in multiple fueds, and is defending tag team belts on his own, and trying to defend Adam Cole's honor.

I actually think part of the story was supposed to be that MJF was being softened by being face and working all these events, and then somebody was going to beat him because he was weakened by his new softer face persona.

[Muta]

As an AEW fan, I will say - since Trips assumed the head creative position again, WWE's booking and storylines have been great. He's great at building their guys into stars (Jey Uso, LA Knight, Chad Gable, Gunther, Bron Breakker, Trick Williams / Carmelo Hayes, etc.).

Admittedly, the only storylines I have liked recently in AEW are current - MJF's juggling of everyone going after him for the belt at the same time (and Max Caster's love interest in him too), Toni's 1930's movie star gimmick, and Christian's legendary run as a father figure (he is absolutely must-watch TV right now). Aside from that, the booking has been sporadic and inconsistent for ages now, and they've really killed the momentum on their homegrown talents like Wardlow, Hobbs and Starks. If I was them, I'd immediately drop the ROH brand from AEW and stop cross-collaborating on that. Too many belts and too much exposure of another promotion waters down the show.

[SuperMatt18]

The ROH integration has killed the show since it happened.

It kind of made sense when Tony was trying to get a TV deal, but that ship has sailed and now he's only hurting his own product.

The guy needs to get a real team of bookers and writers around him and start trying to actually build a coherent long term story.

And yeah it's crazy how over all of Seth Rollins, Jey Uso, Cody Rhodes, and LA Knight are with the fans right now. I can't remember a time in recent history where WWE had 4 faces that were that over with the fans.

[Muta]

Getting Cody that over in WWE, when just before he was as stale as a pile of breadcrumbs in AEW, is masterful booking.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Muta

Getting Cody that over in WWE, when just before he was as stale as a pile of breadcrumbs in AEW, is masterful booking.

It's weird to say but that pec injury was probably the best thing to happen to him.

I have a feeling without that injury he would have felt shoved down people's throats.

But coming out to fight Rollins in that HIAC match with that torn pec really got him over I think.

Sometimes you just need that little spark and I swear that torn pec was it for Cody

[Muta]

That fact that he even did that match shows the massive cajones that man has, good lord.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by trackercowe

I do wonder if MJF is getting overexposed as well? You're having him open the next PPV with the ROH titles, a feud with Juice over the ring, a match with Kenny, a feud with Jay White, adding Samoa Joe as protection, an off-screen bromance with Adam Page, a quasi-feud with The Kingdom, and don't forget the program with The Acclaimed! How can he be featured in so many programs at once? He's all over AEW these days. I feel bad for the guy as he is being asked to carry so much. There's also whatever is going on with Wardlow!

Too much exposure isn't necessarily a good thing. If Freeman ever went down with an injury they would be a deep gap in talent depth, as everything is running through him right now.

Oh and was Danielson hurt again last night? They should be careful with how he is being handled as well. Especially since this is his final year, his matches should be featured in mainevent calibre situations, not random shows. Like Captain has said before, Tony and Co. need to protect Danielson from himself.

I actually like the MJF angle. Even though he's a face now, the walls are starting to close in around him for all his past misdeeds. Max also needs to lay off the juice. The backne is getting really noticeable.