October 6 - So it Begins - The Alberta Teacher Strike

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Regorium

Let's be real. We're all cowards. Wishful thinking that this is any more than just words.

Yes, that is true. That is kind of the point of Unions though, isn't it? By working together it isn't about one person sticking their neck out on their own but many hands locked together to make rich and powerful people listen.

I saw that the AUPE president, Guy Smith, is considering a general strike. Same with Gil McGowan from the Alberta Federation of Labour.

AUPE has 18,000 nurses voting next week on a potential strike so they are very interested in what is happening right now with the Teachers.

All of the union leaders are meeting on Friday so I think they are taking this very seriously. I hope a general strike is the response to the UCP forcing the teachers back to the schools. Anything less than a general strike will probably be ignored.

[GullFoss]

The option for a mediated binding solution makes the most sense if the two sides are really that far apart. The teachers have done what they can to ring the alarm with regards to the issues of class sizes and classroom conditions.

If people want more funding for education, they should vote in a government who has a mandate to do that. Clearly this government believes their mandate also includes fiscal responsibility and tax cuts. As such, they won't pay teachers much more than the average of teacher pay across benchmark provincds. And they have a limit for what they want to spend on public education, which results in larger class sizes than teachers or experts want. Whether you agree with the province or not, they believe that was the mandate they were elected on and they want to deliver on that.

To the extent the province is being unreasonable within their mandate, mediation should solve that issue. Mediation will ensure teachers are paid fairly relative to the other benchmark jurisdiction and that working conditions meet minimum standards. Beyond that, it's a question for Albertans at the next election. If Albertans want to fund education better they should be vote for a party that runs on that platform. Likewise if teachers don't like the pay/conditions, they should leave to work elsewhere.

But the strike should end.

[Looch City]

Is it too much to ask that the baseline should be "please properly fund education and healthcare" across all parties/governments?

We're not a third world country here. Canada. Alberta. The supposed richest province in the country.

Yet every time when it comes to education or healthcare it's "sorry, we simply don't have the cash, it's all gone, none left!"

It's a joke. Systematically dismantling the public and social services so they can serve it up on a platter to the private sector buddies for some extra cash.

[CFO]

Originally Posted by direwolf

The UCP are such reprehensible scumbags. F*** these arseholes.

I’m hearing from some friends in Calgary that high school kids are already planning student walk-outs if their teachers are forced back to work with no changes. If true, good on ‘em for supporting their teachers and standing up to this nonsense.

People need to keep protesting this s*** as much as possible.

Using kids - they don't know any better.

Teachers time to go back to work.

[Winnie]

Originally Posted by CFO

Using kids - they don't know any better.

Teachers time to go back to work.

Please elaborate. Who is using kids?

[Winnie]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

The option for a mediated binding solution makes the most sense if the two sides are really that far apart. The teachers have done what they can to ring the alarm with regards to the issues of class sizes and classroom conditions.

If people want more funding for education, they should vote in a government who has a mandate to do that. Clearly this government believes their mandate also includes fiscal responsibility and tax cuts. As such, they won't pay teachers much more than the average of teacher pay across benchmark provincds. And they have a limit for what they want to spend on public education, which results in larger class sizes than teachers or experts want. Whether you agree with the province or not, they believe that was the mandate they were elected on and they want to deliver on that.

To the extent the province is being unreasonable within their mandate, mediation should solve that issue. Mediation will ensure teachers are paid fairly relative to the other benchmark jurisdiction and that working conditions meet minimum standards. Beyond that, it's a question for Albertans at the next election. If Albertans want to fund education better they should be vote for a party that runs on that platform. Likewise if teachers don't like the pay/conditions, they should leave to work elsewhere.

But the strike should end.

That's a bit simplistic though. I'm curious how the government can justify voting themselves raises. If they don't like the pay, shouldn't they just leave to work elsewhere?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

The option for a mediated binding solution makes the most sense if the two sides are really that far apart. The teachers have done what they can to ring the alarm with regards to the issues of class sizes and classroom conditions.

If people want more funding for education, they should vote in a government who has a mandate to do that. Clearly this government believes their mandate also includes fiscal responsibility and tax cuts. As such, they won't pay teachers much more than the average of teacher pay across benchmark provincds. And they have a limit for what they want to spend on public education, which results in larger class sizes than teachers or experts want. Whether you agree with the province or not, they believe that was the mandate they were elected on and they want to deliver on that.

To the extent the province is being unreasonable within their mandate, mediation should solve that issue. Mediation will ensure teachers are paid fairly relative to the other benchmark jurisdiction and that working conditions meet minimum standards. Beyond that, it's a question for Albertans at the next election. If Albertans want to fund education better they should be vote for a party that runs on that platform. Likewise if teachers don't like the pay/conditions, they should leave to work elsewhere.

But the strike should end.

Spoken like someone with zero labour relations experience.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

The option for a mediated binding solution makes the most sense if the two sides are really that far apart. The teachers have done what they can to ring the alarm with regards to the issues of class sizes and classroom conditions.

If people want more funding for education, they should vote in a government who has a mandate to do that. Clearly this government believes their mandate also includes fiscal responsibility and tax cuts. As such, they won't pay teachers much more than the average of teacher pay across benchmark provincds. And they have a limit for what they want to spend on public education, which results in larger class sizes than teachers or experts want. Whether you agree with the province or not, they believe that was the mandate they were elected on and they want to deliver on that.

To the extent the province is being unreasonable within their mandate, mediation should solve that issue. Mediation will ensure teachers are paid fairly relative to the other benchmark jurisdiction and that working conditions meet minimum standards. Beyond that, it's a question for Albertans at the next election. If Albertans want to fund education better they should be vote for a party that runs on that platform. Likewise if teachers don't like the pay/conditions, they should leave to work elsewhere.

But the strike should end.

People didn't vote for this. In fact, the UCP have a list longer than you can track of things that were not voted for that they are doing to Albertans anyway.

Under education they promised to increase spending on K-12. They did not promise to be the cheapest and least funded province in the country. They are basically hiding their cost cutting in education by trying to ignore the population growth that they helped to stimulate.

Teachers should get a fair deal and it should not require mediation to get there. The government should prioritize the education of Albertans, which means prioritizing the teachers that provide that education. If the UCP cannot get there because their goal is actually to undermine and destroy public education then the teachers should fight them every step of the way and the strike should continue. If the UCP try to take away their right to strike then everyone should stand with the teachers and tell them 'no'.

This is not an issue for the next election, that is a lazy argument for crappy politicians to get away with whatever they want. People with integrity should not stand for that kind of undemocratic sentiment. Democracy is an every-day right, not just a voting-day right, and when politicians lie / cheat / steal from us they should resign or face consequences. This new brand of flagrant disrespect from the politicians and then telling you to shut up until the next election is unacceptable and no one should be on board with it.

If you do not like the strike then call the UCP and tell them off because this entire situation is of their creation.

[Point Blank]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

To the extent the province is being unreasonable within their mandate, mediation should solve that issue. Mediation will ensure teachers are paid fairly relative to the other benchmark jurisdiction and that working conditions meet minimum standards. Beyond that, it's a question for Albertans at the next election. If Albertans want to fund education better they should be vote for a party that runs on that platform. Likewise if teachers don't like the pay/conditions, they should leave to work elsewhere.

But the strike should end.

I really wish you would spend a bit of time reading the earlier posts before you comment. You seem to have a habit of coming up with conclusions that were literally addressed in earlier posts.

The UCP did offer “enhanced mediation” if teachers would return back to work on Sept 20. Thing is, the UCP also said that the condition for the enhanced mediation was that the mediator was not allowed to talk about class size and complexity- literally the reason teachers are striking.

So predictably, the union said “no” and the UCP said “we offered mediation and they won’t cooperate!”

[Point Blank]

Originally Posted by Winnie

Please elaborate. Who is using kids?

Don’t engage with him. He does random drive by comments like these all the time and then disappears when he gets called out.

[malcolmk14]

If the bill orders us back with some kind of fair-ish binding arbitration I’ll grit my teeth and head back with a sour taste in my mouth. Do a good job of doing my job but nothing at all extra or voluntary. Bare minimum on stuff outside of the contract that is considered professional responsibility.

If it forces us back under imposed conditions or no arbitration or uses the notwithstanding clause, I am ready for some civil disobedience.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

The option for a mediated binding solution makes the most sense if the two sides are really that far apart. The teachers have done what they can to ring the alarm with regards to the issues of class sizes and classroom conditions.

If people want more funding for education, they should vote in a government who has a mandate to do that. Clearly this government believes their mandate also includes fiscal responsibility and tax cuts. As such, they won't pay teachers much more than the average of teacher pay across benchmark provincds. And they have a limit for what they want to spend on public education, which results in larger class sizes than teachers or experts want. Whether you agree with the province or not, they believe that was the mandate they were elected on and they want to deliver on that.

To the extent the province is being unreasonable within their mandate, mediation should solve that issue. Mediation will ensure teachers are paid fairly relative to the other benchmark jurisdiction and that working conditions meet minimum standards. Beyond that, it's a question for Albertans at the next election. If Albertans want to fund education better they should be vote for a party that runs on that platform. Likewise if teachers don't like the pay/conditions, they should leave to work elsewhere.

But the strike should end.

1) Most people don't really want, or even know what they mean when they say "Fiscal Responsibility" as evident by the fact that what people think it means, is completely incompatible with cutting taxes. There is nothing fiscally responsible about cutting a reliable source of revenue like taxes and relying more on a single unpredictable commodity price to fund your government.

2) There is nothing fiscally responsible about cutting education and providing a lower standard of education to children. A well educated populace is a productive and high earning one

3) The attitude that if teachers don't like the pay they should just go elsewhere is the most self defeating position for anyone who claims to be fiscally responsible. You get what you pay for, if you want the worst teachers and education system in the country, then fund it that way and see what happens. If you want the best, you're going to have to pay a fair wage, and provide suitable conditions to the people providing it.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

The option for a mediated binding solution makes the most sense if the two sides are really that far apart. The teachers have done what they can to ring the alarm with regards to the issues of class sizes and classroom conditions.

If people want more funding for education, they should vote in a government who has a mandate to do that. Clearly this government believes their mandate also includes fiscal responsibility and tax cuts. As such, they won't pay teachers much more than the average of teacher pay across benchmark provincds. And they have a limit for what they want to spend on public education, which results in larger class sizes than teachers or experts want. Whether you agree with the province or not, they believe that was the mandate they were elected on and they want to deliver on that.

To the extent the province is being unreasonable within their mandate, mediation should solve that issue. Mediation will ensure teachers are paid fairly relative to the other benchmark jurisdiction and that working conditions meet minimum standards. Beyond that, it's a question for Albertans at the next election. If Albertans want to fund education better they should be vote for a party that runs on that platform. Likewise if teachers don't like the pay/conditions, they should leave to work elsewhere.

But the strike should end.

Then why are we lining up to throw away what may be a billion dollars to coal companies? Why did they cut taxes and give us a deficit? Is that fiscal responsibility? If they have completely and utterly failed at what they claimed to be their priority for governing, should they not resign in shame for their failure? Should citizens not rightfully demand that?

[Salt Water Cowboy #10]

The more we spend in our province, the less we send to the feds correct? Meaning the less we send to Quebec and Ontario. Lets spend all we have in this province first. People are moving here. We need teachers and infrastructure to catch up. Spend the money Danny! I’m sick of my kids being at home.
That being said, if the teachers get forced back, I hope they do it. And the negotiations continue, and we address the issues with education here in Alberta. It’s not going to be a quick solution. It’s going to take time. But it is necessary.

[IliketoPuck]

I'd be interested in the thoughts of the various lawyers on here as to the implications of the potential use of the notwithstanding clause to force teachers back to work.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

The option for a mediated binding solution makes the most sense if the two sides are really that far apart. The teachers have done what they can to ring the alarm with regards to the issues of class sizes and classroom conditions.

If people want more funding for education, they should vote in a government who has a mandate to do that. Clearly this government believes their mandate also includes fiscal responsibility and tax cuts. As such, they won't pay teachers much more than the average of teacher pay across benchmark provincds. And they have a limit for what they want to spend on public education, which results in larger class sizes than teachers or experts want. Whether you agree with the province or not, they believe that was the mandate they were elected on and they want to deliver on that.

To the extent the province is being unreasonable within their mandate, mediation should solve that issue. Mediation will ensure teachers are paid fairly relative to the other benchmark jurisdiction and that working conditions meet minimum standards. Beyond that, it's a question for Albertans at the next election. If Albertans want to fund education better they should be vote for a party that runs on that platform. Likewise if teachers don't like the pay/conditions, they should leave to work elsewhere.

But the strike should end.

A mediated solution or arbitration would be fine if the Government didn't handcuff the mediator and take everything off the table but of course, this is exactly what they'll do.

[IliketoPuck]

To clarify:

Mediation and Arbitration are not the same thing. Similar, but different. They both utilize a third party to arrive at a solution to a negotiating impasse, but mediation is non-binding, whereas arbitration is binding.

As well, the scope is important too.


The government has no interest in a mediation that results in discussion about the class size or complexity issues, and so the teachers will never agree to it.

The government also has no interest in getting locked into an arbitration decision that could include class size or complexity, so they will not entertain that option either.

There are two solutions:

1. Government negotiates in good faith and comes to a reasonable resolution on the three main issues (pay, class size, complexity)

2. Government forces teachers back to work via notwithstanding clause.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

To clarify:

Mediation and Arbitration are not the same thing. Similar, but different. They both utilize a third party to arrive at a solution to a negotiating impasse, but mediation is non-binding, whereas arbitration is binding.

As well, the scope is important too.


The government has no interest in a mediation that results in discussion about the class size or complexity issues, and so the teachers will never agree to it.

The government also has no interest in getting locked into an arbitration decision that could include class size or complexity, so they will not entertain that option either.

There are two solutions:

1. Government negotiates in good faith and comes to a reasonable resolution on the three main issues (pay, class size, complexity)

2. Government forces teachers back to work via notwithstanding clause.

The teachers don't have to agree to binding arbitration. The government can foist it upon us.

[IliketoPuck]

I understand that, but the arbitration also locks the government into a decision process where they don't control the outcome. They won't do that.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

I understand that, but the arbitration also locks the government into a decision process where they don't control the outcome. They won't do that.

I'm assuming they can impose their own guidelines to the arbiter to make sure nothing gets in there that they don't like. But I don't really know.