[Trade] Flames trade Mangiapane to Capitals for COL 2025 2nd

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

The narrative around Jarnkrok is bizarre to me. He absolutely played well here, he just had no luck on the scoresheet. All of his other numbers, from advanced stats to things like faceoffs, put him as one of the best all around forwards on the team during his 17 games here. He came nearly as advertised, with a few less points than expected.

He was worth the price. The mistake came when Treliving decided not to bother re-signing him.

I liked Jarnkrok just fine, but renting a third liner for a 2nd, 3rd and 7th round pick is kind of steep.

I don't remember his advanced stts being all that stellar. I just looked and he was 8th in ice time for the playoffs, nothing really stood out to me.

He was a free agent who only signed for $2 million a year so I don't think he was all that coveted.

Still I didn't hate Treliving going all in with that team honestly. We had a HOF calibre coach with a seemingly short shelf life.

[Psytic]

I don't fault him for those trades. Its easy to pick away in hindsight. There's a plausible explanation that Neal was a proven goal scorer similar to somebody like Tyler Toffoli. Brouwer was gritty and we have seen you need that type of player to win. Hamonic was supposed to stabilize the D core. The main issue was letting Johnny and Chucky's contracts get to the point that they did. Those were the big mistakes...I admit I thought Tkachuk was a product of Gaudreau like Lindholm. I thought he was only worth around 7 mill at the time. So I'm not even sure I would have went all in max term on him either. But the whole bridging to keep Frolik was pretty ridiculous.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Your confusing plans on individual moves vs a plan for the team IMO

Getting Hamonic to be your 4th D by paying multiple high assets when the team had other much bigger holes just because he’s available and Edm and Van are in on him isn’t a plan for the team . Sure it gets Brodie a partner . Yaaay . Now we have given up premium draft picks for a 4th D, and also blocked any young D as we have 4 D locked into our core for the foreseeable future .

He never had a vision of what he wanted the Flames as a team to be and how to get there (or if he did I have no clue what it was and he certainly didn’t execute it well )

What was his plan for the Calgary Flames to win the cup in his tenure ? What type of team did he want to build ?

What’s Conroy’s Plan? What’s Alvin’s plan? Or Dubas’ plan? Grier? Nill? Yzerman?…..

Honest question, what do you expect? Are GM’s around the league supposed to disclose their ‘plans’ publicly? Are they permitted to change their plans should circumstances dictate?

I see Treliving’s ‘plan’ as a common criticism but it’s a lame/lazy/uninformed one. Just because he didn’t share with us their plan doesn’t mean one didn’t exist. Further was the plan for the Flames Treliving’s and Treliving’s alone or did others have input? What about Burke or Edwards?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by TOfan

What’s Conroy’s Plan? What’s Alvin’s plan? Or Dubas’ plan? Grier? Nill? Yzerman?…..

Honest question, what do you expect? Are GM’s around the league supposed to disclose their ‘plans’ publicly? Are they permitted to change their plans should circumstances dictate?

I see Treliving’s ‘plan’ as a common criticism but it’s a lame/lazy/uninformed one. Just because he didn’t share with us their plan doesn’t mean one didn’t exist. Further was the plan for the Flames Treliving’s and Treliving’s alone or did others have input? What about Burke or Edwards?

You can't see Conroy's plan? It seems quite clear to me.

It may not work and I believe outcomes matter more than "plans" but Treliving definitely seemed short sighted in his moves. I guess you would call that a lazy or uninformed take.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

You can't see Conroy's plan? It seems quite clear to me.

It may not work and I believe outcomes matter more than "plans" but Treliving definitely seemed short sighted in his moves. I guess you would call that a lazy or uninformed take.

I can see what I believe to be his plan, but that would be a presumption. As it would with any of us till the day Conroy holds a press conference and lets us all know exactly what he intends to do and the various off shoots etc.

If his plan is ‘get younger’ as he’s said, sure. If that constitutes a plan, well done. Not much of a plan though, if you ask me. Further, tearing it down/selling assets is the easy part. Curious to see how people choose to interpret Conroy’s plan when time comes to actually get competitive.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Your confusing plans on individual moves vs a plan for the team IMO

Getting Hamonic to be your 4th D by paying multiple high assets when the team had other much bigger holes just because he’s available and Edm and Van are in on him isn’t a plan for the team . Sure it gets Brodie a partner . Yaaay . Now we have given up premium draft picks for a 4th D, and also blocked any young D as we have 4 D locked into our core for the foreseeable future .

He never had a vision of what he wanted the Flames as a team to be and how to get there (or if he did I have no clue what it was and he certainly didn’t execute it well )

What was his plan for the Calgary Flames to win the cup in his tenure ? What type of team did he want to build ?

No, I think all those moves were part of building around what he had - from the start, which was Gaudreau/Monahan/Backlund/Gio/Brodie with Bennett and Tkachuk incoming. He needed two more solid D for the top 4 and more scoring and size up front. He chose badly and overpaid both in salary and trade compensation in the case of Neal and Hamonic. He also didn't read the need for Hamonic properly given Brodie's actual position preference. He did well with Hamilton at the end of the day.

And I think you are confusing your with you're.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by TOfan

I can see what I believe to be his plan, but that would be a presumption. As it would with any of us till the day Conroy holds a press conference and lets us all know exactly what he intends to do and the various off shoots etc.

If his plan is ‘get younger’ as he’s said, sure. If that constitutes a plan, well done. Not much of a plan though, if you ask me. Further, tearing it down/selling assets is the easy part. Curious to see how people choose to interpret Conroy’s plan when time comes to actually get competitive.

IMO operating year to year with little regard for the impact on the team down the road is the definition of poor planning. Call it what you will, but that is the essence of the argument that is critical of the job that Treliving did and why the new GM found himself in clean up mode on day one.

[CliffFletcher]

Trelivling’s job assignment was to contend for a Cup in the next 3-4 seasons with his core. He demonstrably failed at that, but his moves are all understandable in that light. And not different from the kinds of moves made by other GMs with the same mandate - use draft capital to build out your depth and don’t worry too much about the future beyond that window.

Conroy was given a different job assignment - move out the impending UFAs who don’t want to be here long term*, keep the veterans who do, and quickly retool the roster with the aim of being a solid playoff team in time for the new arena.

I don’t believe either guy chose his assignment. That level of strategic direction is decided by the collective braintrust, with the ultimate authority with ownership.

* It’s no coincidence so many guys’ contracts came up at the same time. Flames management under Treliving clearly earmarked last offseason a potential reset point. Which isn’t something a GM who isn’t giving any thought to the future does.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Trelivling’s job assignment was to contend for a Cup in the next 3-4 seasons with his core. He demonstrably failed at that, but his moves are all understandable in that light. And not different from the kinds of moves made by other GMs with the same mandate - use draft capital to build out your depth and don’t worry about the future beyond that window.

Conroy was given a different job assignment - move out the impending UFAs who don’t want to be here long term, keep the veterans who do, and quickly retool the roster with the aim of being a solid playoff team in time for the new arena.

I don’t believe either guy chose his assignment. That level of strategic direction is decided by the collective braintrust, with the ultimate authority with ownership.

Well put.

Based on the anecdotal evidence, which is all we have, I’d say this assessment is pretty accurate.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Trelivling’s job assignment was to contend for a Cup in the next 3-4 seasons with his core. He demonstrably failed at that, but his moves are all understandable in that light. And not different from the kinds of moves made by other GMs with the same mandate - use draft capital to build out your depth and don’t worry too much about the future beyond that window.

Conroy was given a different job assignment - move out the impending UFAs who don’t want to be here long term*, keep the veterans who do, and quickly retool the roster with the aim of being a solid playoff team in time for the new arena.

I don’t believe either guy chose his assignment. That level of strategic direction is decided by the collective braintrust, with the ultimate authority with ownership.

* It’s no coincidence so many guys’ contracts came up at the same time. Flames management under Treliving clearly earmarked last offseason a potential reset point. Which isn’t something a GM who isn’t giving any thought to the future does.

Was going to say, any GM's "plan" is in accordance with the short terms goals of the team's owners, as impacted by the age and talent existing at the time. And even that is subject to events occuring which were not hoped for or maybe expected - like Tyson said "everyone has a plan until they are punched in the face".