[News] CSEC and City of Calgary agree to restart formal discussions on new arena

[Yeah_Baby]

They're probably still salivating at having their own area district where they don't have to deal with the Stampede Board.

[Robbob]

They should build it in Eau Claire and make it part of the green line

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

I don't think its a secret that the Flames' owners prefer the West Village.

And it's not a secret that aside from CSEC, no one really takes that very seriously. CSEC wants someone else to do all the remediation and demo work so they can sweep in for some cheap real estate and new arena in an area that already has an ASP. Unless they're planning on bringing something new to the table here, I don't see why the city even gives them the time of day on that idea.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

And it's not a secret that aside from CSEC, no one really takes that very seriously. CSEC wants someone else to do all the remediation and demo work so they can sweep in for some cheap real estate and new arena in an area that already has an ASP. Unless they're planning on bringing something new to the table here, I don't see why the city even gives them the time of day on that idea.

It feels like there is something fishy going on with the West Village. With polluter pays legislation I don't understand why Domtar has not been forced to remediate the area. Alberta Environment's claims that they can't be held accountable after leaving the province is crap.

I would love someone to explain this cluster. Whether arena or not, that area could be amazing.

[Zarley]

The issue with West Village is that there's literally nothing there. It will take years to build out and will cannibalize multi-res absorption from the East Village / Vic Park if it gets started prior to those areas building out.

There's also a ton of capital cost involved in both the cleanup of the WV and the civil works (overhauling the street network etc.). Allocating a huge chunk of developable land to a massive sports complex does not help the pro-forma if the intent is to finance this thing via CRL.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

I don't think its a secret that the Flames' owners prefer the West Village.

maybe there could be a way to get the province to give money for an arena without directly giving money.

We know the UCP wants to bribe Calgarians to vote for them. Maybe the offer would be for the province to pay for the cleanup so an event centre could be built at that location.
Then it would be easy for the government to say no public funds were used toward an arena, but still buy votes.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Zarley

The issue with West Village is that there's literally nothing there. It will take years to build out and will cannibalize multi-res absorption from the East Village / Vic Park if it gets started prior to those areas building out.

There's also a ton of capital cost involved in both the cleanup of the WV and the civil works (overhauling the street network etc.). Allocating a huge chunk of developable land to a massive sports complex does not help the pro-forma if the intent is to finance this thing via CRL.

It's also just a worse location for access as well. It's closer for one line, but significantly worse for the Red Line, and nowhere near the Green Line routing. It's surrounded by barriers on all side for pedestrian traffic,

The benefit for the West Village location is because it has more development opportunities for CSEC's owners. The impact on the public side is significantly worse.

Originally Posted by Infinit47

It feels like there is something fishy going on with the West Village. With polluter pays legislation I don't understand why Domtar has not been forced to remediate the area. Alberta Environment's claims that they can't be held accountable after leaving the province is crap.

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

maybe there could be a way to get the province to give money for an arena without directly giving money.

We know the UCP wants to bribe Calgarians to vote for them. Maybe the offer would be for the province to pay for the cleanup so an event centre could be built at that location.
Then it would be easy for the government to say no public funds were used toward an arena, but still buy votes.

If the chatter around the province having the 'ownership' of the cleanup is true, it means they're footing the bill for cleanup regardless of whether it's an arena, or a longer term project. Hopping on the pro-arena train means that they're trying to get things done, and it's the mean ol' city that's preventing it from happening (even though it's better for the city for it not to be there, have the province pay for reclamation anyway for when a better development cycle can happen in the West Village).

Naturally the worst outcome for the city and people of Calgary is what I expect in such a scenario.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Zarley

The issue with West Village is that there's literally nothing there. It will take years to build out and will cannibalize multi-res absorption from the East Village / Vic Park if it gets started prior to those areas building out.

There's also a ton of capital cost involved in both the cleanup of the WV and the civil works (overhauling the street network etc.). Allocating a huge chunk of developable land to a massive sports complex does not help the pro-forma if the intent is to finance this thing via CRL.

You're right there's nothing at WV because of the contamination, but revitalizing CalgaryNEXT, and getting the province to contribute to the cleanup may be the only chance of letting West Village amount to something in the long run.

The Rivers District development may have it's timeline of build out pushed because of this, but there isn't anything that would hold it back from getting developed fully. East Village started hot, but has cooled down the last while with a lot of the development focused in the Beltline currently. But the only thing holding back EV right now is the market. West Village most likely needs some catalytic/anchor development to make the contamination cleanup process startup, and let that area have a chance to utilize it's potential.

I much prefer the arena being at the current Stampede location because the I think it's an appropriate fit for the entertainment district they are wanting to build out there, and it's near all the 3/4 LRT lines around there. But I can see why CSEC wants to have all their properties under one (big) house, and possibly have carte blanche land for real estate development. Even if the arena still goes through at the Stampede, something gotta be done about the football stadium. And I don't think anyone is truly interested in renovating/keeping McMahon Stadium; especially the university.

[Torture]

“We do know that time is of the essence, also we’re working with cost escalations. So, you know, projects, the sooner they happen, the better, when it comes to time and money.”

Nothing like artificial time pressures to make sure we get the right deal!

[Ashartus]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

It feels like there is something fishy going on with the West Village. With polluter pays legislation I don't understand why Domtar has not been forced to remediate the area. Alberta Environment's claims that they can't be held accountable after leaving the province is crap.

I would love someone to explain this cluster. Whether arena or not, that area could be amazing.

I've heard rumours of a deal made by Domtar with the government but never seen anything tangible to support that. Just excuses that they don't operate in Alberta anymore and refuse to pay which seems pretty thin to me. Though just like a lot of old mines there's some convulted corporate acquisition history too.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by bdubbs

CalgaryNEXT part 2?

NextCalgaryNext

This time rendered in MS Paint.

[topfiverecords]

We're on track for shovels in the ground in spring 2035 for a 12,000 seat bare bones box rink.

[dustygoon]

Reading this report, the remediation costs for creosote in West Village in 2016 were estimated to be $110mm for 3 years of work. Geebus.

[Lil Pedro]

Just build a damn near arena in Vic Park already

[timun]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

Reading this report, the remediation costs for creosote in West Village in 2016 were estimated to be $110mm for 3 years of work. Geebus.

If "this report" means the CMLC report from April 2016, it was actually $110M just for the Canada Creosote site itself, plus another $30M for the rest of the West Village lands, for a total of $140M. And that was not "three years of work", that was three years of ongoing remediation: the full timeline was estimated to take an additional three to five years' worth of site investigations, permitting, approvals, etc. before remediation even began.

[JBR]

I'm convinced this project will not be completed before the time of my death.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by JBR

I'm convinced this project will not be completed before the time of my death.

Didn't you just reach legal drinking age? If so, your projection sounds about right.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by timun

If "this report" means the CMLC report from April 2016, it was actually $110M just for the Canada Creosote site itself, plus another $30M for the rest of the West Village lands, for a total of $140M. And that was not "three years of work", that was three years of ongoing remediation: the full timeline was estimated to take an additional three to five years' worth of site investigations, permitting, approvals, etc. before remediation even began.

Can't they just ship the soil to Edmonton where it'll match the natural surroundings there?

[Shazam]

You know what, I'm okay with someone paying for the soil remediation. It's going to have to be done someday anyhow. Plop a stadium on there? Sure why not. It'll be obsolete in 30 years so knock it down and put something else there.

[timun]

I know you're joking, but the costs I quoted actually were for the "expedited" option, which consisted of simply digging up all the dirt and disposing of it somewhere else.

This was based on an estimated volume of 269,000 cubic metres of soil to be removed. That's over 100 Olympic-sized swimming pools' worth of dirt.