LeBrun: Flames are looking at every single scenario to try and keep Giordano

[blender]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I just wanted to throw this tidbit out here as well regarding rebuilding for a cup. The last top 3 pick to win a cup was drafted in 2010(Seguin). Not one of the top 3 draft picks in the last 11 years has won a cup.

There is still merit to getting top 3 picks. In fact, I think that is the option the Flames should pick. Just don’t expect to win a cup in the next 10 years. You’ll get a contender eventually, most likely, and that’s the most we can realistically hope for.

Well we've got Sutter at the helm and he's won 2 cups in the last 10 years so the Flames are twice as likely to win the cup than if they had a top-3 pick!

[flambers]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I just wanted to throw this tidbit out here as well regarding rebuilding for a cup. The last top 3 pick to win a cup was drafted in 2010(Seguin). Not one of the top 3 draft picks in the last 11 years has won a cup.

There is still merit to getting top 3 picks. In fact, I think that is the option the Flames should pick. Just don’t expect to win a cup in the next 10 years. You’ll get a contender eventually, most likely, and that’s the most we can realistically hope for.

Maybe but the teams listed below 5 out of 6 have a 1st overall

2021: Tampa Bay Lightning,
2020: Tampa Bay Lightning,
2019: St. Louis Blues,
2018: Washington Capitals,
2017: Pittsburgh Penguins,
2016: Pittsburgh Penguins,

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by flambers

Maybe but the teams listed below 5 out of 6 have a 1st overall

2021: Tampa Bay Lightning,
2020: Tampa Bay Lightning,
2019: St. Louis Blues,
2018: Washington Capitals,
2017: Pittsburgh Penguins,
2016: Pittsburgh Penguins,

I completely agree with you, and I see the point. However, those teams(in most cases) had to resign their star franchise player drafted in the top 3 before they could win anything.

Stamkos won cups in D+12, D+13
Hedman won cups in D+11, D+12
Ovi won his cup in D+14
Crosby won his first cup D+4, next cups were only D+11, D+12
Add a year for Malkin, 2 for Fleury.

I am just saying that even getting McDavid/McKinnon type home run doesn’t win you a cup until they hit their UFA years. It just takes a long time transforming a team from being the one of the worst teams to the best team in the league.

[3rd Degree]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I completely agree with you, and I see the point. However, those teams(in most cases) had to resign their star franchise player drafted in the top 3 before they could win anything.

Stamkos won cups in D+12, D+13
Hedman won cups in D+11, D+12
Ovi won his cup in D+14
Crosby won his first cup D+4, next cups were only D+11, D+12
Add a year for Malkin, 2 for Fleury.

I am just saying that even getting McDavid/McKinnon type home run doesn’t win you a cup until they hit their UFA years. It just takes a long time transforming a team from being the one of the worst teams to the best team in the league.

I guess we better start transforming as soon as possible. We need players with heart and fire who raise their play in the playoffs. More Chucky, not less.

[kyuss275]

Take your top 3 pick selection to another thread. I need sureloss breaking news on what flames are doing with Gio .

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by 3rd Degree

I guess we better start transforming as soon as possible. We need players with heart and fire who raise their play in the playoffs. More Chucky, not less.

I haven’t really seen Tkachuk raise his level in the playoffs.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I completely agree with you, and I see the point. However, those teams(in most cases) had to resign their star franchise player drafted in the top 3 before they could win anything.

Stamkos won cups in D+12, D+13
Hedman won cups in D+11, D+12
Ovi won his cup in D+14
Crosby won his first cup D+4, next cups were only D+11, D+12
Add a year for Malkin, 2 for Fleury.

I am just saying that even getting McDavid/McKinnon type home run doesn’t win you a cup until they hit their UFA years. It just takes a long time transforming a team from being the one of the worst teams to the best team in the league.

And St. Louis’ 1OA was Erik Johnson. They haven’t drafted higher than 20th in the last 10 years. They are an odd case - they only drafted maybe three of their impact players - Tarasenko, Parayko and Binnington.

[Wood]

Since 1980 only 9 1st overalls have won a cup. Lemieux, Murphy, Modano, Lecavalier, Kane, Fleury, Crosby, Ovechkin and Stamkos

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Wood

Since 1980 only 9 1st overalls have won a cup. Lemieux, Murphy, Modano, Lecavalier, Kane, Fleury, Crosby, Ovechkin and Stamkos

4/9 won with the Pens (Murphy also won as a Wing). Murphy also didn’t win his 4 cups with the team that drafted him.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Don’t think we have a chance in hell of getting landeskog. I have read rumours that hall will be re-signing with the bruins after expansion. I think “Vinny” made a good post a while back that flames could be looking to make a trade with Seattle after expansion. Seattle is probably going to draft a lot of dmen . Could see something like Bean and another forward castoff for Monahan. Yes underwhelming but could see it. Also Monahan might have some value to teams that miss out on Eichel .

I think that draft day, then a couple of weeks into free agency would be crucial times to swinging a big trade. At each of these points teams have their roster's holes clearly defined. Also, I really hope that the changes and the return would be more than just trading Monahan for a "forward castoff" and a year of Gio.

As for Gio he is as good as gone. I don't see the Flames paying more than a 2nd to keep him. Seattle can take their time/trade him back to the Flames after the dust settles or around the trade deadline. The only way the Flames keep him is if they trade one of Hanifin/Andersson/Tanev for a forward before the expansion draft. In that case, Seattle will probably take Backlund.

As for Gio news from sureloss, sorry for derailing the thread, but I don't think you'll hear anything about deals made with Seattle until the 20th at the earliest.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

And St. Louis’ 1OA was Erik Johnson. They haven’t drafted higher than 20th in the last 10 years. They are an odd case - they only drafted maybe three of their impact players - Tarasenko, Parayko and Binnington.

Doug Armstrong is the exemplar of the “stay good without rebuilding” approach. However, he isn’t at all afraid to move out guys if it isn’t working. Core players he’s traded or let walk in their prime:

Brewer
E Johnson
Perron
Halak
C Stewart
Backes
Oshie
Shattenkirk
Stastny
Pietrangelo

Armstrong doesn’t fall in love with his players and is absolutely ruthless with asset management. If he were the Flames GM, I expect he would have moved out two of Gaudreau, Monahan, or Giordano in recent years.

[3rd Degree]

Originally Posted by flamesgod

I haven’t really seen Tkachuk raise his level in the playoffs.

That’s because you need players with heart and fire to get you to the playoffs. Let’s stand pat and see if anything changes.
Tkachuck is the type of player that is difficult to play against and has some g.a.f. Little floaters will take this team to exactly where it is. It’s crazy to me that people think more of the same is what we need.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by 3rd Degree

That’s because you need players with heart and fire to get you to the playoffs.

So when the Flames made the playoffs the two previous years with the same core, that means…?

‘Heart and fire’ is BS. The minor leagues are full of players with heart and fire. You need skill and execution to get you to the playoffs.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by 3rd Degree

That’s because you need players with heart and fire to get you to the playoffs. Let’s stand pat and see if anything changes.
Tkachuck is the type of player that is difficult to play against and has some g.a.f. Little floaters will take this team to exactly where it is. It’s crazy to me that people think more of the same is what we need.

This crap that the players on this team have no heart or drive to win is ridiculously overblown. Like they go into every season thinking wow, let's suck some serious ass this year, who wants to win? Come on....

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

This crap that the players on this team have no heart or drive to win is ridiculously overblown. Like they go into every season thinking wow, let's suck some serious ass this year, who wants to win? Come on....

It's straight-up magical thinking, that's all. We live in a society where people are bombarded every day with the message that you can have anything you want if you just want it badly enough. The flip side to that message is that if you don't get absolutely everything you want, it's your own fault for not wanting it enough.

Every professional athlete has more ‘heart’ and more ‘drive to win’ than most fans can easily imagine. Without those qualities, few of them would have persisted all their lives against the most intense competition to become top players at their particular game. But they also have natural athleticism, hard-won skill, and a strong support system of coaches and trainers. Those are the things that determine how far persistence can take you.

The idea that you can improve a team by getting rid of skilled players and replacing them with unskilled mooks who just want it enough is a fantasy. I wish it were not such a widespread fantasy.

[Kipper_3434]

on topic plz

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

This crap that the players on this team have no heart or drive to win is ridiculously overblown. Like they go into every season thinking wow, let's suck some serious ass this year, who wants to win? Come on....

I don’t think anyone really believes that any player doesn’t want to win.

But some players seem to be able to raise their game when the going gets tough to a higher level, and some do not.

You don’t think that Toews, Kane and Keith weren’t able to raise their game?

Especially Keith. He was generally not considered the leagues best dman until playoff time. Then everyone remembered.


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[ResAlien]

Everyone wants to win. Not everyone hates to lose.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I don’t think anyone really believes that any player doesn’t want to win.

But some players seem to be able to raise their game when the going gets tough to a higher level, and some do not.

You don’t think that Toews, Kane and Keith weren’t able to raise their game?

Especially Keith. He was generally not considered the leagues best dman until playoff time. Then everyone remembered.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Or some players just play on better teams? I think that is more likely.

[chummer]

Maybe they don't take Gio-

https://twitter.com/user/status/1416512410668646401