Sam Bennett Value: Have the Flames held on TOO long? OR is he awesome?

[GranteedEV]

Bennett should be neither on the top line nor the focal point the third line. Play him with Tkachuk. Have Janko or Foo be the third guy. Drop Backs to a shutdown line role and again have Foo/Janko/Shore/Frolik/Brouwer cycle on the wings.

Ideally I see our toaster next year being

Gaudreau Monahan Ferland
Tkachuk Bennett Kovalchuk
Jankowski Backlund Foo
Mangiapane Shore Frolik/Lazar

[PugnaciousIntern]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Bennett should be neither on the top line nor the focal point the third line. Play him with Tkachuk. Have Janko or Foo be the third guy. Drop Backs to a shutdown line role and again have Foo/Janko/Shore/Frolik/Brouwer cycle on the wings.

Ideally I see our toaster next year being

Gaudreau Monahan Ferland
Tkachuk Bennett Kovalchuk
Jankowski Backlund Foo
Mangiapane Shore Frolik/Lazar

I'm a fan of both the text, and the proposed lineup. But slipping that little 'Kovalchuk' into the second line, without mentioning it in the text, made me chuckle.

[EldrickOnIce]

Yeah, no Bennett at centre for now please.
If injury dictates, and he runs with it, outstanding.
Can't stumble out to another brutal start to a season with him fumbling that role.

[Torch]

No to Ferland on the top line.

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

I always said I think Bennett should be on the top line and given a chance to make it his. If he’s given the same leash ferland got last two years up there he probably easily outscores ferkland.

However, I asked what you think we should do with Bennett for next year? Keep him? Trade him? Make him carry ferkland a equipment to the rink everyday?

And yes that 20 goal scorer on the top line should’ve been demoted in February and never put back because once mony got injured ferkland disappeared

It's Ferland, unless you're Kevin Bieksa or a Canuck fan or stuck in 2015. This is a thread about Bennett and his struggles, not a hate on Ferland who had 21 goals and isn't a problem.

Easily outscoring Ferland being on the top line would mean Monahan type 30+ goals (which Ferland was on pace for before his late season struggles). There's no way that Bennett gets near that from how he's played the last few years. That's top 10-15 in the league, not someone meddling as a 3rd line winger. He improves on top line but no way he turns into an elite scorer. I think we need to give Ferland more credit on why he was put on the top line and why he performed well. Jonny and Monny are really good and make players better but there's more to it.

[Torch]

Pepper I think Bennett is a cheap young 3rd line winger with an upside.
Ferland needed top end talent to score his 21. I like Ferland just not on the top line. The flames need a top end RW that can create space on the first line. Like Kuchurov, Laine, Tarasenko, Oshie

[EldrickOnIce]

Unless I'm reading it wrong (and I must be) Bennett played more than 120 ES minutes with Gaudreau and Monahan as linemates, and got 2 points.
So less than 1pt/60min while playing with them - which should be impossible.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

I always said I think Bennett should be on the top line and given a chance to make it his. If he’s given the same leash ferland got last two years up there he probably easily outscores ferkland.

However, I asked what you think we should do with Bennett for next year? Keep him? Trade him? Make him carry ferkland a equipment to the rink everyday?

And yes that 20 goal scorer on the top line should’ve been demoted in February and never put back because once mony got injured ferkland disappeared

Why? What has he done to merit that?

What should be done with Bennett? He needs to be told to play better, like a 4OA should. Why does he need to be spoonfed to succeed? Tell him to force his way up the lineup, like Gaudreau did. Like Gio did. Tell him he's been playing on a line with another first rounder in Jankowski and, sometimes, with Jaromir Jagr.

Ferland cooled off right when the rest of the team did - after the mandated break.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Unless I'm reading it wrong (and I must be) Bennett played more than 120 ES minutes with Gaudreau and Monahan as linemates, and got 2 points.
So less than 1pt/60min while playing with them - which should be impossible.

Injured Monahan and cold Gaudreau. Just for context.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by pepper24

That's the sales pitch that Trevliving needs to use to the other 30 GMs. It worked against him for Lazar, now his turn to do the same.

Unlike some fans, NHL scouts and GMs know that 21 year olds haven't hit their full potential and still have a lot of room for improvement. NHL GMs and scouts understand that development doesn't always come fast and furious and that some players have some ups and downs early in their careers.

A lot of our fans don't seem to grasp these points. Impatience rules the day.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Injured Monahan and cold Gaudreau. Just for context.

Bennett played with the top line 13.3 percent of the time. He played with Janko and Hathaway 50.3% and Janko and Jagr 13.7%. It was, as you say, 4th quarter when he got into a line with Gaudreau and Monahan. That said, injured Monahan had 9 points in the same time frame (4 goals). And Bennett had exactly the same production in the 4th quarter with his Janko and Hathaway, in the same percentage of shifts.

Bennett had a great 2nd quarter especially with Hathaway and Jankowski. 4 goals, 13 points. Over half were with J and H, and only 2 were with Jagr. He never played with the top line during that period. He does that over a year and its 16 goals, 52 points.Just fine at his age. So why was he not as good the rest of the year?

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Bennett should be neither on the top line nor the focal point the third line. Play him with Tkachuk. Have Janko or Foo be the third guy. Drop Backs to a shutdown line role and again have Foo/Janko/Shore/Frolik/Brouwer cycle on the wings.

Ideally I see our toaster next year being

Gaudreau Monahan Ferland
Tkachuk Bennett Kovalchuk
Jankowski Backlund Foo
Mangiapane Shore Frolik/Lazar

I, too, would like to have a toaster like that.

[corporatejay]

If Bennett was on any other team we wouldn't give up a first rounder for him. That's how far he's fallen.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

If Bennett was on any other team we wouldn't give up a first rounder for him. That's how far he's fallen.

I think his upside is easily still worth a late 1st, maybe even a mid 1st in some years. I think his value has fallen in the eyes of impatient fans more than it has for hockey people.

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I think his upside is easily still worth a late 1st, maybe even a mid 1st in some years. I think his value has fallen in the eyes of impatient fans more than it has for hockey people.

If so then Treliving should be all over that especially without a first round pick.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Unlike some fans, NHL scouts and GMs know that 21 year olds haven't hit their full potential and still have a lot of room for improvement. NHL GMs and scouts understand that development doesn't always come fast and furious and that some players have some ups and downs early in their careers.

A lot of our fans don't seem to grasp these points. Impatience rules the day.

Yakupov, Connolly, Hamill, Cowen, and countless other high picks never developed much further (or regressed) after their 21st birthday.

Injuries, rushed into the NHL, opportunities, coaches, there's a plethora of reasons that fans attributed to players that never developed or appeared to take a step back after their 21 first birthday despite high expectations. And all of them had similar arguments between their fan bases. "Be patient," "wait to see how he does after missing a year of development, "give him a new coach," "he needed to develop in the minors," "needs to be given better opportunities."

Sure, you don't want to give up on a Niederreiter, but being patience isn't always the key. High picks that start entering that 22-23 year old range without much showing for themselves usually get peanuts in a return unless you're lucky enough to find a trading partner like Chiarelli. In the worst cases, you see teams banking on their youngsters developing and not doing so and eventually having to be bought out, like Cowen.

I think Bennett has passed the point where a team would be willing to give much for him (highly disagreeing with your most recent post about the first), so no point in trading and take the gamble he does break out. But, I think it's a weak argument to defer to authority when there's new cases of players showing that being patience doesn't always pay off happening every season.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by pepper24

If so then Treliving should be all over that especially without a first round pick.

Yeah an impatient fan would say that I guess.

I still think he has top two line potential so I'm not particularly ready to give up on that. I wouldn't deal him for a late 1st, I'll stick with Bennett. I probably wouldn't deal him unless we were getting a top 10 pick back.

Why be so quick to give up on extremely skilled young players? Bennett is in a great age range to be improving with our core. A 1st rounder likely won't help for 4-5 years. We're just about to see what Bennett can truly develop into and you wanna give up on him just before that? Seems extremely shortsighted.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Yakupov, Connolly, Hamill, Cowen, and countless other high picks never developed much further (or regressed) after their 21st birthday.

I think Bennett is a lot closer to Niederreiter than to your examples above.

Only time will tell.

[GranteedEV]

All I know is, I've seen Bennett show top line ability in the NHL. I'm not talking about the fancy dangles. I'm talking about vision, delicacy, elusiveness, tenacity, anticipation, and even finish. I mean go back to his four goal game, and look at the goal he scores on the Engelland rebound - how many players have you ever seen in your lifetime of hockey backhand that play top shelf while facing away from the net? It was pure instinct.

As a center I see strong instincts on the defensive side of the red line, and his faceoff percentage has also improved. I think he is a better center than, at the very least, Mark Jankowski and I think Janko is a strong center himself.

Yes, he has weak points too, the top of which I would say is that he goes too directly to the net instead of finding soft space as a goal scorer - but I feel his bevy of strengths haven't been fully harnessed and his weaknesses too magnified in comparision to guys like Tkachuk and Monahan who are simply different players.

Giving up on Bennett before we see him under a new coach would be foolish. It's not as if he looked bad under Hartley - he was a lot weaker on the puck back then but overall that still stands as his best season and you have to figure out why.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I think Bennett is a lot closer to Niederreiter than to your examples above.

Only time will tell.

Obviously the point is that you think Bennett will breakout and trading him prior would be foolish but Niederreiter had scored 24 goals in his 21 year old season as he was traded just after his 20th birthday. Bennett just scored 11 in his.

And for the record, at the time, I would have loved if the Flames gave up a first or equivalent for Connolly when he was 21 and struggling to find his place with the Lightning but doing well in the AHL. But of course Lightning counterpart fans, or some, would have laughed at the idea of moving him for something so minor when he was "still developing" and "just wasn't given the opportunity in the NHL yet."

Of course they would have loved that first in retrospect instead of the second that they got from the Bruins a year later. And the Bruins would have loved to have that second back when he went unqualified a year after that.

Every player is different. I think dismissing arguments as being from "impatient fans" is a bit of a copout. It's a discussion board, we have different opinions is all on what Bennett will become.