2017-18 Toronto Raptors and General NBA Thread

[Senator Clay Davis]

It's depressing thinking of what can even happen to change things.

Ibaka - Untradeable. I would seriously bury him on the 905's, or just straight waive him. Cannot be on the roster next year

Lowry - Not quite untradeable, but to trade him you probably gotta take $0.10 on the dollar. And really, there aren't many logical fits either. Might have no choice but to bring him back and hope a near contender has an injury and wants him.

DeRozan - Definitely tradeable, but can you get true value? I'm not so sure. Plus, when it was DeRozan and the bench mob this year, they looked pretty good. I'd be inclined to keep him unless you get a value offer.

JV - Has to be traded. Poeltl has shown he can give you basically the same thing.

Casey - I've defended him pretty strongly this year, and I actually don't put too much blame on him for this team being losers, but you can't bring him back after this performance. Let's see what Stack can do.

Must resign FVV, Miles did what he was brought in to do so no problem with him, although he might be the most tradeable player given his skillset. Wright is obviously good, Siakam is already better than Ibaka and deserves to start. Powell was terrible this year, but we gotta hope it was a blip. That said, if he goes off on a hot stretch at any point, gotta look to move him.

[savemedrzaius]

I'm wearing my fake bootleg Drake OVO DeRozan T-shirt today here in China as a rallying cry. If the Raps comeback and win this series you guys can thank me later.

[dammage79]

Safe to say the Raps needed at least a split. Does anyone believe they can get out of their own heads and Steal 2 on the road in Cleveland? Anyone? I don't, this series b done.

Which sucks a lot, because I was so ready to get on the hype train to T.O if they could get past their version of the Ducks in the Cavs.

Cannot believe LeBron is gonna toss them out yet again. Maybe they should just throw the entire cap at him only to have him NOT play against them.

[SuperMatt18]

I’m not that surprised. This team forgot how to play defense down the stretch and it continued into the playoffs.

Lebron is a machine too. 43 points on 68% FG% and 14 assists. I honestly think he steps up his game in Toronto just to show Drake up.

[dino7c]

At least we won't have to hear that lame song on fan960 and Sportsnet much longer

[St. Pats]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

It's depressing thinking of what can even happen to change things.

Ibaka - Untradeable. I would seriously bury him on the 905's, or just straight waive him. Cannot be on the roster next year

Lowry - Not quite untradeable, but to trade him you probably gotta take $0.10 on the dollar. And really, there aren't many logical fits either. Might have no choice but to bring him back and hope a near contender has an injury and wants him.

DeRozan - Definitely tradeable, but can you get true value? I'm not so sure. Plus, when it was DeRozan and the bench mob this year, they looked pretty good. I'd be inclined to keep him unless you get a value offer.

JV - Has to be traded. Poeltl has shown he can give you basically the same thing.

Casey - I've defended him pretty strongly this year, and I actually don't put too much blame on him for this team being losers, but you can't bring him back after this performance. Let's see what Stack can do.

Must resign FVV, Miles did what he was brought in to do so no problem with him, although he might be the most tradeable player given his skillset. Wright is obviously good, Siakam is already better than Ibaka and deserves to start. Powell was terrible this year, but we gotta hope it was a blip. That said, if he goes off on a hot stretch at any point, gotta look to move him.

If Ibaka is still even in 30's I'm surprised / what a complete joke the guy is / useless in every facet of the game and a contract MU will have to be a genius to get rid of.

Poetl cannot do what JV does at all. He can't score or shoot free throws and JV is good at both. JV can play defense on a classic big center and Poetl cannot. Poetl runs the floor, plays good pick and roll D and is a good offensive rebounder. Hustles like crazy but him starting would make that unit even worse.

Philly might actually want Lowry as they need some veteran presence to go with the young talent.

DD even though he is completely one dimensional player who can't handle the pressure of the playoffs is the one I would keep. He can score and that takes the pressure off the younger guys. Unless the return is excellent.

Casey is a clown and should have been canned long ago.

MU needs to clean house. Get a modern up and coming coach / not a neanderthal like Casey, Retool with youth.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Philly is getting LeBron, so why would they have any interest in Lowry? Maybe Miami but what do they have that the Raps would even slightly want that even comes close to value? Clippers are another possibility I guess, maybe Detroit if you package Lowry and JV together for Drummond. I've seen some people saying trade Lowry or DeRozan to the Wolves for Wiggins, but Wiggins is a negative player in my view and wholly not worth trading for, especially since you might have to give him $200 million. He's the less efficient, worse defending version of DeMar. Would be a move more to sell tickets than anything.

One thing I've seen suggested is that since the Raps and Wizards are basically in the same kind of spot, a backcourt swap might be worth it just to see if a change of scenery makes the difference. So trade Lowry and DeRozan for Wall and Beal. Definitely not equal value for the Raps, but a change for the sake of change trade might work, who knows? But straight tanking is impossible, as I said earlier even if they trade DeRozan, Ibaka and Lowry for a bag of balls and a pump, the remainder is still a playoff team in the East.

Probably the best case scenario is hope to find your Kawhi, your Jimmy Butler, your Jokic, an elite player outside the lottery. Bringing up Jokic stings like hell, because of course the year he was drafted at 41 was the year the Raps drafted Bruno at 20.

[Strange Brew]

I am no Raptors fan so maybe I have a different perspective. Winning a championship is awfully hard and a good amount of luck is involved.

I am a Rockets fan and they've had a helluva season, but I recognize it's an uphill battle for them to win the whole thing. But it has been extremely exciting to watch and I feel they have a chance to win any series.

I just don't think you revert to rebuild mode as soon as you realize you're not the favorite to win the championship. I get how disappointing the first two losses have been, so maybe its just the emotion talking, but even now Raptors still have a shot at this. Odds are any rebuild doesn't get you any closer.

Things will look a lot different if they win game 3 in Cleveland.

Just my 2 cents. Now Rockets sure as hell better win at least one in SLC.

[Senator Clay Davis]

To go all Herm Edwards: You play to win the game. I would agree that blowing it up on a whim is misguided, but it's worth remembering that Masai was ready to blow it up before the Lowry trade fell through, and the rest is obviously history. Obviously with the beauty of hindsight, we all wish that trade happened and they went full process. Maybe the Raps would have Ben Simmons and Jayson Tatum right now and would have an exceptionally bright future. Instead, the Raps are in purgatory, not good enough to win anything, but not bad enough that tanking is a legit possibility. Sadly the reality is they're probably going to have to play out the string with this group, which actually has the potential to lose you fans since we're all pretty much sick of it already.

We also have to remember we are in a unique time period of NBA basketball, and will be for at least two more seasons after this. Teams that are smart are prepping for the post-Warriors era. There is I suppose something to admire about the Raps and Rockets pushing forward with almost no hope, but if they aren't smart they will be the worst positioned teams in the post-Warriors era. And then their fans will be wondering why they didn't plan better. Rockets I guess will make a run at LeBron this summer at least, though after the piece of crap team he's probably taking back to the Finals this year, why would he ever leave the East?

[jayswin]

NBA's a weird league to condemn a franchise for failing to run with the big boys. It's pure vitriol towards the Raptors and management, but really how much can you feasibly do, guys?

They built quite an incredible team considering where the team is located. It's not like the NHL where you can acquire and draft a really good core, than add pieces and you've got a shot as a contender. You either have a couple of superstars or you don't.

And the stars basically make their own inside game of the NBA by conspiring to go to the same teams and create superteams.

If you're the GM of a team that isn't on the list of teams that stars want to band together on, then really, tell me, what can you do?

[jayswin]

It's a league that lacks integrity on several fronts. One being officiating that caters to superstars and certain markets, and the other is the league being awkwardly and embarrassingly open using tanking as a legitimate team building strategy.

I mean I get it, every sport has it, but in other sports at least teams recognize the value in not turning into a **** losing culture from tanking and use it as a last resort.

It's so embarrassing to hear NBA owners come out and literally say they are tanking to their fans and the players. It really should instill a losing culture, but unfortunately the NBA is so star driven that unlike the NHL they can basically instill a new culture pretty quickly with a new star or two. And because of this tanking isn't even really a guarantee of anything as the race to the bottom is as battle worthy and difficult as the race to the top.

It's so dumb.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Ask Sixers fans if 2012-2016 was worth it or not. Now not every process will work, but it's the NBA's fault it's the best way to build a squad. Hell, even the goddamn Lakers are struggling to attract top level FAs because of how the system is set up. Now you don't have to fully tank, the Spurs and Warriors are pretty good examples of that. But the best way, really the only way to win in the NBA, is through drafting. And obviously you'd always prefer to be drafting #1 and not #23.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Ask Sixers fans if 2012-2016 was worth it or not. Now not every process will work, but it's the NBA's fault it's the best way to build a squad. Hell, even the goddamn Lakers are struggling to attract top level FAs because of how the system is set up. Now you don't have to fully tank, the Spurs and Warriors are pretty good examples of that. But the best way, really the only way to win in the NBA, is through drafting. And obviously you'd always prefer to be drafting #1 and not #23.

The sixers haven't won #### yet. You know who else had an amazing big three. OKC. How many rings?

[Senator Clay Davis]

So because Presti (ownership really though) royally ####ed up, teams shouldn't view tanking as a good strategy? And yeah, if the Sixers get LeBron as they likely will, how will anyone say the strategy didn't work? We all know the big thing that has to end is caps on player salaries, as long as you're capped at what you can make in a year, it makes superteams simply a given.

[Beninho]

Tim and Sid taking a collective dumb on the raptors today. Thank god, tired of the Canadian media giving them a pass the last few seasons. Masai flat out did not do enough to improve this core and signing Ibaka and Powell will tie the raptors hands in future free agency. It’s done folks, this is the best it’s getting with this iteration of the raptors. The quicker they unload the more chance they have to be competitive in the future. They should be doing whatever they can to tank for RJ Barrett.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Beninho

They should be doing whatever they can to tank for RJ Barrett.

How could they possibly do that, though? Tanking is so competitive that it's almost like saying "They should be doing whatever they can to be as good as the top 3 teams".

Either way, you're facing a pretty big mountain.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by jayswin

How could they possibly do that, though? Tanking is so competitive that it's almost like saying "They should be doing whatever they can to be as good as the top 3 teams".

Either way, you're facing a pretty big mountain.

The quicker they start that process the better it will be. This won’t happen but I can hope. I won’t be getting invested into this core ever again and I’m sure that’s a sentiment felt by most fans.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

To go all Herm Edwards: You play to win the game. I would agree that blowing it up on a whim is misguided, but it's worth remembering that Masai was ready to blow it up before the Lowry trade fell through, and the rest is obviously history. Obviously with the beauty of hindsight, we all wish that trade happened and they went full process. Maybe the Raps would have Ben Simmons and Jayson Tatum right now and would have an exceptionally bright future. Instead, the Raps are in purgatory, not good enough to win anything, but not bad enough that tanking is a legit possibility. Sadly the reality is they're probably going to have to play out the string with this group, which actually has the potential to lose you fans since we're all pretty much sick of it already.

We also have to remember we are in a unique time period of NBA basketball, and will be for at least two more seasons after this. Teams that are smart are prepping for the post-Warriors era. There is I suppose something to admire about the Raps and Rockets pushing forward with almost no hope, but if they aren't smart they will be the worst positioned teams in the post-Warriors era. And then their fans will be wondering why they didn't plan better. Rockets I guess will make a run at LeBron this summer at least, though after the piece of crap team he's probably taking back to the Finals this year, why would he ever leave the East?

I understand your argument Senator but Warriors aren’t unbeatable. This is not the Jordan era Bulls, or the Bird-Magic era.

Teams like Rockets and Raptors have a chance to win it all. A chance that you have no guarantee of replicating by tearing it all down. And Rockets got to this point without tanking.

No Rockets fan is arguing for a rebuild and I doubt they will be 5 years from now. If 25 teams want to tank and rebuild, well let them.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I understand your argument Senator but Warriors aren’t unbeatable. This is not the Jordan era Bulls, or the Bird-Magic era.

Teams like Rockets and Raptors have a chance to win it all. A chance that you have no guarantee of replicating by tearing it all down. And Rockets got to this point without tanking.

No Rockets fan is arguing for a rebuild and I doubt they will be 5 years from now. If 25 teams want to tank and rebuild, well let them.

The Warriors could beat the Raptors in 4 games in an NBA final and rest starters in the second half of a couple games.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Lowry and Derozan are such losers. Never going to win with that leading your team.