Omar F*****G Khadr is getting $10.5 milion

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Were those bombs for terrorism or were they for war? It makes a big difference. People seem to forget that while the taliban were considered a terrorist organization everywhere else, they were the government body in Afghanistan at the time, anything they did to defend against coalition forces were no different than what the Germans did in WWI and II, unless you consider what they did to be acts of terrorism, what Khadr did was not terrorism. The case could be made for treason, but again his age at the time and the upbringing he was born into are significant factors to consider when determine whether or not he could have avoided this scenario.

They weren't the government body at the time, they had fled and abandoned the capital. They were just as effective at terrorizing their own citizens as well as they were going after coalition forces. Lets not make that group some heroic group of freedom fighters fighting the evil Coalition. That to me is gross. Even when they were in government they were at war with their own people. As well they they gave aid and comfort to Al Qaeda and Bin Laden. In return Bin Laden helped fund the Taliban.

As well Omar's father and Omar were more linked to Al Qaeda, and the training that Omar did receive was by Al Qaeda. So there was an affiliation with a terror group.

On top of it these "freedom fighters" were also busy during their "resistance" shooting and attacking kids for daring to go to school. Brutalizing and shaking down villagers, and killing anyone that wasn't on their side.

the United States never recognized the Taliban Government, Canada did designate them as a terror group, and Great Britain agreed with the removal of the Taliban.

Omar Khadr wasn't some heroic freedom fighter trying to save his homeland, if that's what your saying then he's not a Canadian, oh wait except that whole noxious family are Canadians' by convenience so that their sons could get shot up or their scumbag old man could get shot up and come home and get top notch first aid and take advantage of the Canadian Welfare system.

He was trained by Al Qaeda, and built bombs that were used against Coalition troops that included, you know Canada. Who were there on a legal mission, fighting a "government" that wasn't a "government" that offered aid and comfort and training camps to a terrorist group, that supported them Materially.

Look at the end of the day, what's done is done in terms of the settlement, its unlikely that any money is going to go to Speer's widow or Sgt Morris. Even though Omar is all about reconciliation, he admits that he lied on his guilty plea, which meant that his statement of apology is also to me suspect, and he's never made an effort to apologize to the widow or the Sgt in person

What is going to be investigated is how this government handled this case, and questions are going to be asked about the secrecy of the payout.

I also believe that the government should have enforced a position that $0.00 of his settlement could go to that family of his.

[iggy_oi]

I did not recall the timeline of the taliban, nor was I defending their actions against their people. I was just looking at it from the perspective that even if recently removed whether we agreed with it or not they were still the government of that country, the al Qaeda part is different. I just see it as very gray because al Qaeda were supporting the taliban resistance and we don't know how involved Khadr was with their terrorism activities, we know he was aiding resistance forces in Afghanistan but because of the circumstances it can be debated whether or not resisting foreign government armed forces is considered terrorism.

It's interesting to read on that the US government didn't consider the taliban as a terrorist organization.

As for Khadr's apology, he made a generic apology, he didn't apologize directly to Speers' family, but if he is not guilty of murdering him I can understand why he wouldnt apologize to them directly.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

What is going to be investigated is how this government handled this case, and questions are going to be asked about the secrecy of the payout.

I also believe that the government should have enforced a position that $0.00 of his settlement could go to that family of his.

I'm not sure if the legality of a condition such as that, if it is legal do we know for a fact that such a condition wasn't part of the agreement?

[CaptainCrunch]

They were removed they were not the government of that country. Beyond that they weren't recognized by the US as a legitimate government, they were never granted recognition.

There is no gray, they weren't a country, they spent as much time terrorizing their own people as they did as a resistance to the coalition

Canada declared the Taliban as an enemy terrorist group, mainly because they provided aid and material support to Al Qeada and bin laden. We do have Omar making bombs though so in a real sense from a Canadian perspective he was a terrorist.

As well He was trained by Al Qaeda members, his old man provided material support and did fund raising that directly benefited Al Qaeda and its cause.

Omar also worked with Al Qaeda as a translator in Afghanistan. By every definition he was a member of a terrorist group. Not the Taliban, but Al Qaeda.

The group that he was with when attacked were foreign fighters as well, not the Taliban, Therefore with a Terrorist Group,

There to me is no debate. He received training from a terrorist group, we have him on video building bombs that were used against the Coalition, and he was a citizen of Canada. On top of it, he was building bombs with Al Qaeda members.

Basically by building those bombs whether they were used by the Taliban or Al Qaeda which were used against the Coalition which included Canada, Omar a Canadian Citizen did perform an act that at the most was treasonous, at the least was providing material or training support to a group that was at war with Canada.

I don't consider him a freedom fighter, or some member of a resistance.

If he was Al Qaeda he was a terrorist

If he identified as Taliban, then he was an insurgent, that was not the government at the time, and spend as much time attacking civilians as it did coalition forces..

To the second part, its irelevant I guess. I had sworn that I wasn't going to get back into this thread. But the portrayal of the acts that Omar did in Afghanistan as somewhat heroic or even justified to me are wrong.

Isn't the whole defense here that he was part of a terrorist group but he was brain washed by his dad so its not his fault.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

That may well be the case but I would argue that there should not have ever been a settlement. The entire debacle should have been resolved by due process through the courts. The sad thing is that this guy continues to be a pawn of the government to this day. Pretty boy Justin wanted this to go away as quietly as possible whether it was right or not to settle.

When your own Supreme Court says that you violated Khadr's Charter rights, then literally the only thing left to fight for in a lawsuit from the Government's side is the size of the settlement. There isn't a lower court judge in the country that could hope to find in favour of the Government and not have the SCOC overturn on appeal.

So while the Government could very well have chosen to take it to trial regardless, you can bet that pretty much every lawyer advising the PMO was telling them to settle. And, FWIW, $10.5 million is what the Harper government paid to Arar following his torture. That is not a precedent setting result, and his case was far more egregious on the part of our officials, but it still sets a guideline.

IMO (and IANAL, obviously), the only likely benefit the Government would have gained by fighting it to the very end in court is political. It would have downloaded anger about the sum Khadr is getting paid onto the judiciary while allowing Trudeau, the Liberals and CSIS to shrug their shoulders and say "blame the judges". But that, IMNSHO, would be a deliberate waste of the courts' time.

[Resolute 14]

Speaking of the courts, the request by Speer's wife to have Khadr's assets frozen was denied as her legal team failed to present a credible threat that he would move the assets off-shore.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/omar-kh...unts-1.4203035

"We do not have one law for Omar Khadr and another for all other Canadians," Justice Edward Belobaba wrote in his decision. "The law, including the law for obtaining a pre-judgment freezing order, applies equally to everyone."

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by blankall

He's on film making and placing bombs for terrorists. It doesn't really matter which specific bombs specific terrorists used in specific places. Even if he was washing the dishes for the people he was with, he'd likely be convicted as a party to their crimes.

It also doesn't really matter whether his father put him up to it or not. He would still be convicted.

The kind of things you're talking about are likely to be mitigating factors to his sentencing. The confession you're talking about was to the murder of the US soldier, which yes would have been difficult to prove in the first place and probably impossible to prove after all the evidence tampering and coerced confessions.

First of all, I was talking about High Treason, a charge reserved for "the most egregious crimes against Canada". Since the majority of evidence against Khadr is, among other things, totally impossible to prove, a video of him making bombs isn't going to amount to a hill of beans. This the best summary of the evidence against him I've found so far...

http://www.nationalobserver.com/2017...dr-isnt-guilty

What you're talking about is not Treason. You're talking about other charges under the anti terrorism act, specifically an Offense Involving Explosive or Other Lethal Device. And if that's your charge, then the above bolded text you wrote is absolutely not true.

Every one who delivers, places, discharges or detonates an explosive or other lethal device to, into, in or against a place of public use, a government or public facility, a public transportation system or an infrastructure facility

The placement of the device is actually very key to the charge itself. There no evidence other than what the Americans said "places where US forces were known to travel". And that doesn't amount to a hill of beans when it comes to proving "public place".

You could probably get him for participation with a terrorist group. But again, this comes down to knowing if, where and when Khadr actually planted any IED.

He's guilty in the same sense OJ was guilty. But any possible charge you can think of requires evidence that's pretty hard to verify.

[pepper24]

Omar Khadr though born in Canada really never has lived here until his recent release from prison. Timeline below from birth in Toronto until his time in Guantanamo Bay. Mostly his family made brief visits to collect money for terrorism starting when he was around 10 years old. Canadians of convenience.

1986: Omar Khadr is born in Toronto on Sept. 19, but lives with family in Pakistan until 1995.

1995: Khadr's father is arrested in connection with the bombing of the Egyptian embassy in Islamabad, but is freed after then-prime minister Jean Chretien raises the arrest with Pakistani Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto.

1996: After briefly returning to Canada, the family moves to Jalalabad in Taliban-controlled eastern Afghanistan, where they live in Osama bin Laden's compound.

1996: The Khadr brothers begin attending weapons training camps affiliated with the Taliban and bin Laden. The family makes annual trips to Canada to raise money and collect supplies.

July 27, 2002: Two Afghan government soldiers are killed and several U.S. troops suffer injuries as coalition forces move in on Khadr's compound. Khadr throws a grenade that kills U.S. Sgt. 1st Class Christopher Speer. Khadr is injured in the melee.

October 2002: Khadr is transferred to Guantanamo Bay.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/timelin...hadr-1.2363587

[Amethyst]

Originally Posted by pepper24

Omar Khadr though born in Canada really never has lived here until his recent release from prison. Timeline below from birth in Toronto until his time in Guantanamo Bay. Mostly his family made brief visits to collect money for terrorism starting when he was around 10 years old. Canadian of convenience.



http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/timelin...hadr-1.2363587

His family maybe, but as a child or a prisoner, it's not like he had any say in the matter.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by pepper24

Omar Khadr though born in Canada really never has lived here until his recent release from prison. Timeline below from birth in Toronto until his time in Guantanamo Bay. Mostly his family made brief visits to collect money for terrorism starting when he was around 10 years old. Canadian of convenience.

1986: Omar Khadr is born in Toronto on Sept. 19, but lives with family in Pakistan until 1995.

1995: Khadr's father is arrested in connection with the bombing of the Egyptian embassy in Islamabad, but is freed after then-prime minister Jean Chretien raises the arrest with Pakistani Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto.

1996: After briefly returning to Canada, the family moves to Jalalabad in Taliban-controlled eastern Afghanistan, where they live in Osama bin Laden's compound.

1996: The Khadr brothers begin attending weapons training camps affiliated with the Taliban and bin Laden. The family makes annual trips to Canada to raise money and collect supplies.

July 27, 2002: Two Afghan government soldiers are killed and several U.S. troops suffer injuries as coalition forces move in on Khadr's compound. Khadr throws a grenade that kills U.S. Sgt. 1st Class Christopher Speer. Khadr is injured in the melee.

October 2002: Khadr is transferred to Guantanamo Bay.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/timelin...hadr-1.2363587

Woah, woah, woah. Are you calling his family Canadians of convenience or him? If it's the former than fair enough, but to call Omar himself a citizen of convenience would be pretty silly.

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by Amethyst

His family maybe, but as a child or a prisoner, it's not like he had any say in the matter.

Yes, sorry. Should say Canadians of convenience for the entire family. Not him directly being just a kid.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Speaking of the courts, the request by Speer's wife to have Khadr's assets frozen was denied as her legal team failed to present a credible threat that he would move the assets off-shore.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/omar-kh...unts-1.4203035

"We do not have one law for Omar Khadr and another for all other Canadians," Justice Edward Belobaba wrote in his decision.

I think that quote sums up a lot of what a number of us have been saying. Good to see it in a written legal judgement.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

I think that quote sums up a lot of what a number of us have been saying. Good to see it in a written legal judgement.

I dont know....seems more like a poor man's Boblobla's Law Blog....

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Who's saying anything about not paying? This entire payout is so greasy it doesn't seem real. It should have been concluded by the courts, not a private settlement to make as little noise as possible.

If that burns your butt just think of the additional $5 Million in legal fees that the Harper Government spent on fighting Khadr all the way to the Supreme Court. That's half a settlement.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

What is going to be investigated is how this government handled this case, and questions are going to be asked about the secrecy of the payout.

I also believe that the government should have enforced a position that $0.00 of his settlement could go to that family of his.

With respect to your first point, settlement of litigation is typically done in secrecy. Legal advice is privileged. Settlement discussions are privileged. And often settlements include confidentiality provisions. Governments "secretly" settle lawsuits all the time.

With respect to your second point, such a condition would be highly unusual and totally unenforceable (probably why it would be so unusual). As soon as settlement monies commingled with prior savings or future earnings, it would become impossible to distinguish one from the other. Even if that weeent true, the condition could be easily circumvented by channeling money through third parties. It's not a good idea.

[Makarov]

In terms of whether or not Khadr was a terrorist, it really depends on how one defines terrorist. There is no evidence (that I'm aware of) that Khadr ever participated in the targeting of non-combatants. To me, that puts claims of "terrorist" on very shaky ground.

The treason arguments are much better. He may well have committed treason. However, his age and circumstances are clearly mitigating. There would be significant difficulties in proving the offence at trial. And to the extent that the charge related to his participation in the death of Cpl Speers, he's already served a significant period in custody for that.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Makarov

In terms of whether or not Khadr was a terrorist, it really depends on how one defines terrorist. There is no evidence (that I'm aware of) that Khadr ever participated in the targeting of non-combatants. To me, that puts claims of "terrorist" on very shaky ground.

The treason arguments are much better. He may well have committed treason. However, his age and circumstances are clearly mitigating. There would be significant difficulties in proving the offence at trial. And to the extent that the charge related to his participation in the death of Cpl Speers, he's already served a significant period in custody for that.

You don't have to directly participate in a crime to be party to it.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by blankall

You don't have to directly participate in a crime to be party to it.

I'm familiar with the law regarding being a party to an offence. I haven't seen any evidence that Khadr knowingly assisted in the targeting of non-combatants.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Makarov

In terms of whether or not Khadr was a terrorist, it really depends on how one defines terrorist. There is no evidence (that I'm aware of) that Khadr ever participated in the targeting of non-combatants. To me, that puts claims of "terrorist" on very shaky ground.

The treason arguments are much better. He may well have committed treason. However, his age and circumstances are clearly mitigating. There would be significant difficulties in proving the offence at trial. And to the extent that the charge related to his participation in the death of Cpl Speers, he's already served a significant period in custody for that.

He was building bombs for a terrorist group. he was trained by Al Qaeda at their camps, and he worked directly with Al Qaeda.

So to me that makes him a terrorist, it doesn't matter if he actively planted bombs or not.

It would be similar to the IRA bomb makers and even the ISIS bomb makers who don't blow up the bombs themselves. They're a active member of a terrorist group.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

He was building bombs for a terrorist group. he was trained by Al Qaeda at their camps, and he worked directly with Al Qaeda.

So to me that makes him a terrorist, it doesn't matter if he actively planted bombs or not.

It would be similar to the IRA bomb makers and even the ISIS bomb makers who don't blow up the bombs themselves. They're a active member of a terrorist group.

Except that the vast majority of bombs IEDs planted by the Taliban were targeting combatants, not civilians. In my mind, to label Khadr a terrorist one would have to prove that he built an IED that he knew at the time would be used to target non-combatants.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

He was building bombs for a terrorist group. he was trained by Al Qaeda at their camps, and he worked directly with Al Qaeda.

So to me that makes him a terrorist, it doesn't matter if he actively planted bombs or not.

It would be similar to the IRA bomb makers and even the ISIS bomb makers who don't blow up the bombs themselves. They're a active member of a terrorist group.

Exactly this. No one has to prove what bombs were used where. If he built bombs for an organization that was using some of those bombs on civilians, then he's guilty. Groups like Al Queda tend to broadcast quite widely to their followers that they targeting civilians and are quick to take credit for such attacks. So I doubt he'd be very successful in arguing those bombs were for strictly military purposes.

If Al Queda has a pile of 10 bombs, you don't have to trace the use each particular bomb. Building any bomb for them is a crime.