[Rumour] Iginla willing to waive NMC at this years deadline

[JiriHrdina]

It's not just about playing defensive. It is about playing the system that the coach is trying to employing. It's about buy in.
No one was expecting Iggy to win a Selke but his overall game got worse over the years. The best players in the game play complete hockey

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Some fans, for some odd reason, have a really weird habit of praising defensive players over offensive players. Its been happening for years even though our only cup was won by an offensive powerhouse of a team. You can go back and look at reactions to a guy like Huselius, who performed way better than his contract demanded, and you'd see comments like "the guy can't throw a hit!". Nylander, Reichel, Fleury... to an extent we've seen these comments about Gaudreau and Monahan already. How many times did you read "Monahan is useless when he's not scoring" earlier this year.

And there's people who want to throw the best player in the team's history under the bus for not playing more defensively.

I don't know where this mentality came about but there's a definite bias to guys like Regehr who took 2 wrist shots at goal per year, but he's obviously a better team player and leader because he drove Hemskey through the boards a couple times. (Forgetting the fact that pound for pound Iginla was probably one of the toughest Flames of all time)

Seems like the prevailing mentality of many amongst the fanbase has been that the Flames need to become a gritty defence first team to succeed, and the offensive side of the game just happens, it doesn't need praise for truly providing value in terms of wins. I'm sure some people think Gio is actually better now because he's dropped his goal production.

You nailed it. I think it might be due to people fixated on 2004 and how a defensive system and team full of plugs nearly won a cup. But look at all the cup winning teams thereafter. Only Daryl Sutter's Kings did it with a purely defensive system. But he had the talent to score goals in a defensive system and the goaltender to survive the lack of goals you score. You basically need a perfect team.

The Blackhawks, Penguins, Red Wings, Ducks, and Bruins all played two-way games. It wasn't just defense and it wasn't just offense.

[taxbuster]

I just think about the game last night vs CBJ. Would having Iggy in the lineup have helped? Maybe a bit on the PP, but nowhere else. It's still a team game, and the entire team has to perform.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

It's so easy to dismiss what I am saying by saying I hate Iginla. Yeah, the guy who owns two different Iginla jerseys separated by 6 years is the guy with an irrational hatred for him. Absurd.

Address the points I made or don't bother responding. Strawman like I believe Iginla caused the decline of the avs or that I need psychiatric help need not apply.

The multi-stanley cup winning coach as a coach and the Stanley cup winning and former multi time nhl captain both said publicly, to the media, that Iginla was a difficult player to coach. His split with Brent Sutter was very public at the time. Darryl Sutter was blunt as hell when he answered the question of why trade for Steve stairs, "veteran leadership."

Our own JiriHrdina even confirmed for us that Iginla hanging out at the opposition blue line was not the instructions given by the coaching staff.

Iginla was enigmatic. in his prime there was no better, but there were also problems with coachability on occasion that detracted from the team which were magnified by his Captain status. That's the entirety of the argument.

People have addressed the points you made, and you just stopped responding.

The problem isn't having a simple opinion that he declined toward the end of his tenure or was hard to coach. It's slagging him absolutely every time he's brought up, ad nauseam.

How's about you start with finding this quote where Sutter said he's hard to coach and include the context? Continuing to mention it like it's some kind of trump card for your slanted bias is getting pretty tiresome. You're taking one quote, with none of the context in which it was made, and acting like it validates your entire twisted narrative.

You have no idea how Iginla was in the room, yet you take a couple random quotes from a decade + tenure and extrapolate them into him having been a leading factor in the team's demise. You drop comments about it all the time. It's asinine.

Then you go on and try to paint everyone here as having pitch forks when you very much did go so far as to (laughably) insinuate he was the cause of Colorado's downfall upon his signing.

At some point, you need to take a look in the mirror and come to grip with the fact that it's not everyone here jumping on you for no reason when it comes to this topic. It's because you're completely off kilter about it like you have some kind of ax to grind.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

It's not just about playing defensive. It is about playing the system that the coach is trying to employing. It's about buy in.
No one was expecting Iggy to win a Selke but his overall game got worse over the years. The best players in the game play complete hockey

Iggy. Boston. Enough.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Iginla for sure deserves SOME of the flack he has received. I don't think there is a question about it. I just think it has become overblown to the point that people hear or read something, and make 3 or 4 leaps to the point where he suddenly becomes some sort of a cancer. 3 other teams have stated that Iginla is a great role model and does what he needs to do.

Defensively, Iginla has left something to be desired in the last few years. However, is it because he gave no effort and was horrible defensively, or is it because we as fans saw a change? Iginla wasn't just good defensively before - he was literally a beast. He came hard on the backcheck, and would remove guys off the puck and come away with it. That was prime Iginla. When he became more of a 'sniper', I would say he didn't engage as often defensively.

Did he become horrible defensively? Irresponsible? I don't think so. Just not that 'beast' we saw before.

I still say Keenan deserves a lot of the blame for ALLOWING Iginla to turn into a more offence-oriented player. Sutter came in, and tried to implement a system that just didn't fit the Flames. I saw it, many other people saw it, and Iginla most definitely saw it as well (as did the rest of the forwards). We all heard for years that "this team can't score on the rush". It was a poorly built team in the forward ranks, and scoring off the rush wasn't a strength for sure. However, it was even worse along the boards because they were small and old (the smallest and oldest in the NHL, or very close to it in both categories). You don't build a system that forces everything along the boards in a team built like that.

The Flames went on some runs those years when they deviated from Sutter's system, IMO. It had nothing to do with Sutter's "Wolfpack Mentality" - that part was on the money. Forwards should have come down harder on defence and skated up together more as a unit. However, the system entailed moving the puck up along the boards. Well, it isn't like the opposing teams would sit there and just allow it to happen. They engaged, board battles were inevitably lost (teams were both quicker and bigger, and knew the system was all about forcing things up the boards). You can hardly fault a team for figuring it that the system just isn't working.

Sure, I can lay some blame on Iginla for whatever his part was in deviating from the system. For sure. However, Iginla was often along the boards (Bertuzzi, Langkow and Moss being the only other players that were half-decent along those boards).

I think too many people think that the captain ensures everyone else follows him. It doesn't work that way. Giordano was lauded as a great captain - heck, people were posting how he was a BETTER captain than Jarome was at times. Now this season, we have seen posts about Giordano not leading, questioning his leadership, etc. See a pattern?

The coach has always been and will always be THE captain of a team. As the coach goes, so does the team. If the coach doesn't find a way to command respect out there, the team doesn't do well. It doesn't matter if Iginla (or Giordano) is the greatest captain of all time, and is still 100% buying into the system.

This isn't implying that Brent Sutter wasn't a leader, or that Hartley wasn't a leader - then suddenly became a wonderful leader when the Flames made the playoffs, and then suddenly stopped last year, or that Gulutzan wasn't, then was, now 'maybe' is. Sounds kind of stupid, right?

Why then, was Iginla without question the game's best leader in '04, and then suddenly a cancer? Why was Giordano 'a much better leader', and now he suddenly isn't? Could it be that by chance there is just so much 'noise' and connecting the dots on things that as fans we have no clue about because we have no real insight on? We hear someone say something, and suddenly we connect two or three dots and assume it means something. I think that happened quite a bit with Iginla the last few years he was here, and it seems to be happening with Giordano now.

When a team is losing, people start questioning and making assumptions. Period. I bet that Iginla wasn't the perfect leader he seemed to be in the '04 run. I also bet that he wasn't even close to the cancer people were making him out to be (and still are) in the latter years he was here as well. I can't speak for everyone, but to me this just screams absolute nonsense.

I still don't want Iginla back on the Flames, but it has little to do with him disrupting the locker room or being some cancer. I just openly question if he could keep up with the style of game the Flames are trying to play, and will absolutely HATE to see him become a whipping boy (more than he already is) on these forums or in the media at large.

Iginla is what he is - a once great player who is in the twilight of his career. You bring players like these on your team once in a while for a cup run when your team is young and inexperienced to help them along. Anything else is gravy. If he fits a role here doing that on the Flames, so be it, and I will accept him coming on board. If he doesn't fit what the Flames are needing, then so be it too.

I just find it difficult to think that over the years, Iginla decided to trade-in his 'white hat' for a 'black one', and has decided to turn into a selfish villain who only cares about padding his stats.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by Scooter

I'd give all the credit Kipper carrying this team on his back to the 04 finals and subsequent years moreso than Iginla who always had a hard time understanding the concept of playing defence in your own zone.

Kipper was one of a large sum of the whole equation, Iggy was another, so was Gelina, Nilson, Regher, Yelle, Nieminen, and Simon, just to name a few on that Flames team during the cup run. Kipper always bounced back the next games after losses from allowing a bad goal once in a while, but it was Iggy who carried the team up the ice and he had supporting cast to help along. I'm sure if the Flames should've won that Cup that year, it's either gonna be Iggy or Kipper who would've gotten the Conn-Smythe Trophy. I don't think it would've mattered who could've won it since both of them were great and they were crucial to the success of the team from 2014 to before Brent Sutter came in. 2004 - 2008 Flames teams were great as a team and this team won with 3 constants: Iggy, Regehr, and Kipper. However, if you look back at all the games and look at all the stats and listen to all the commentators, two thing is for sure:

1) The Flames team during that span and even before Kipper came in, the Flames would NEVER win as many games as they did if Iggy does not score in a majority of those times. In a lot of those games, teams would double and triple cover him or even drape over him to prevent him from scoring and yet he's the top scorer on the team every year, let alone the top of the league in scoring every year.

2) Kipper can win games on his own and he can lose a few bad ones as well. He plays like 70+ games a season. But note that the Flames basically had one goalie, but they had a pretty decent defensive corps as well in front of Kipper.

So, your argument is about Kipper playing the best defence and Iggy does not have a clue about anything to do with defence. Right, Kipper is great in net, but you left out the supporting cast in front of him as well; and this is not to downplay Kipper's greatness as arguably the BEST goalie ever. I think you've neglected Regehr, Warrener (at his prime), and others in front of Kipper.

Secondly, if Iggy plays defence and my #1 point becomes moot. So, basically, Sutter built a team that couldn't score because there's no scoring depth on the forward lines. Everyone plays like they're the Coyotes or a Hitchcock snoozer team. C'mon, you don't frickin waste a power forward's talent to drive to the net and score goals by playing him defensively. The team has 3 to 4 defensive pairings with centers going back to help and you want Iggy to play defense!?! So, if you're being outscored every game, how the hell do you generate offence when there is none and the only one to produce is the one power forward on the team? Duh! How about telling Regehr to play score more goals while you're at it. Or, tell Gaudreau to become a more physical back-checking defensive forward and forget about scoring. That mentality is almost ######ed! It's almost like telling a plumber to do an electrician's job and vice versa. And guess what, that's what happened with Sutter when he thinks that he defence can score with Phaneuf going up the ice. So, he got greedy and got Jbo. Great - now we have two plumbers who can wire it up! However, the GM decides to hire his brother who demands everyone to go back to doing plumbing, including the electricians! It's a misuse of resources and talent and it's a damn shame to try and fit a square peg in a round hole of similar sizes.

I don't know about you man, you and half of this board can find every reason to blame Iggy for the downfall of the Flames or take credit away from what he has achieved with his team or whatever second-hand crap you hear from someone else and put it here on the forum, but just know this, there are 20+ players that play the game for 82 games a year, plus coaching staff, plus the GM that make up the whole team. It takes one god-awful GM to frickin run this team down to nothing and another to come in to try and replenish the system. By the time this team hits rock bottom, all three of these great players that are the backbone of the team are gone pretty much forever. So, if you can bring one of the greatest Flame player back for one last time, why not? Iggy would be better than Wideman on the point for the PP. He'd replace Stajan easily on the 4th line, and he'll provide size that the Flames still lack up front. A bunch of you always says how slow Iggy is on the ice. Some of the guys right now on the team don't even give an effort on a regular basis. So, who gives an eff? Just him being on the team provides a little bit more toughness and a little more spine to stand up for the more skilled players. Man, Iggy is like Rocky Balboa, except Flames fans will be cheering, "Ig-gy, Ig-gy, Ig-gy..." to the very end!

[Mister Yamoto]

Iginla? Never should have traded him in the first place.

The best thing for his legacy is to win the cup. The LA Kings are my prediction for the cup. Iggy to LA for a 2nd.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Mister Yamoto

Iginla? Never should have traded him in the first place.

The best thing for his legacy is to win the cup. The LA Kings are my prediction for the cup. Iggy to LA for a 2nd.

Oh no, I disagree with that 100%, Iggy had to go.

Again, nothing against him, but this team needed a reset and he wanted to chase a cup, he was never going to get that with us.

This team needed to get out from under the legacy that was Iginla, again, its nothing against him or an indictment of his play but sometimes you just need to part ways.

[MarkGio]

Iginla yielded Klimchuck, so who knows if the trade was worth a damn. But maybe a byproduct was Gaudreau and Monahan playing with Hudler instead, which turned out well for the playoff run. It may have also allowed Gio to turn into a Norris calibre D for those seasons, but looking at his current performance and contract, I'm not sure that's a good thing. You can also argue the playoff run allowed the Flames to sign Brouwer, who's currently out-performing Iginla at less salary. Also, re-signing Iginla would have cost a fortune for him to stay.

[David Struch]

It would really sting if the Flames faced Jarome Iginla in the Stanley Cup Final and he scored a monumental goal against Calgary, in the same way Martin St Louis did in game six, scoring that overtime goal to force game seven.

[jlh2640]

Originally Posted by David Struch

It would really sting if the Flames faced Jarome Iginla in the Stanley Cup Final and he scored a monumental goal against Calgary, in the same way Martin St Louis did in game six, scoring that overtime goal to force game seven.

A goal that happened only because the Calgary winger was tripped just inside the line. Garbage

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by David Struch

It would really sting if the Flames faced Jarome Iginla in the Stanley Cup Final and he scored a monumental goal against Calgary, in the same way Martin St Louis did in game six, scoring that overtime goal to force game seven.

Yeah I don't think any of us have to worry about that scenario playing out.

[TheScorpion]

Bumping up that trade value with another goal tonight.

4 goals, 4 assists in 30 games. Yikes.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Mister Yamoto

Iginla? Never should have traded him in the first place.

The best thing for his legacy is to win the cup. The LA Kings are my prediction for the cup. Iggy to LA for a 2nd.

You are predicting a team that won't make the playoffs to win the Cup?

[wired]

I really liked Iggy before his last contract. The last few years of his stay, along with others on the team during that time, put a sour taste in my mouth.
As I have said before, do as Regher (sp) did. Sign for a day, and retire as a Flame. More classy IMO.

[calgaryblood]

298 to 298.

Pretty crazy how even the poll has been.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

Iginla yielded Klimchuck, so who knows if the trade was worth a damn. But maybe a byproduct was Gaudreau and Monahan playing with Hudler instead, which turned out well for the playoff run. It may have also allowed Gio to turn into a Norris calibre D for those seasons, but looking at his current performance and contract, I'm not sure that's a good thing. You can also argue the playoff run allowed the Flames to sign Brouwer, who's currently out-performing Iginla at less salary. Also, re-signing Iginla would have cost a fortune for him to stay.

Trading Iginla yielded a lot more than Klimchuk. If we hadn't traded him we wouldn't have been bad enough to pick Monahan, or likely Bennett either. The team needed to be blown up so we could start fresh. It was without question the right move to trade him.


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[Pointman]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

No I'm not. Neither had a very successful career before or after centring Iginla. I think your underrating what I would consider one of the most dominant and best all-around wingers of his generation. Iginla and Kipper in their prime took basically a team of plugs to the SCF. They had one rookie All-Star defenseman and a great shutdown defensemen helping them, and a great coach in Daryl Sutter. Who else from that team really had a good career afterwards?

I love Iginla, but the myth of 2004 squad being trash is a myth. Beyond the best RW, the best G and elite top pairing they still had solid players. Gelinas surely had a solid career with Cup ring, deep runs and 30 goals season to his name. Lydman went on two runs to ECF, leading the Sabres in TOI in one of them. Conroy was widely regarded as excellent defensive center and was nominated for Selke twice. Warrener went to the Cup finals twice before 2004 run. Chris Simon scored 29 goals once in the "old" NHL and Chris Clark scored 30 in the "new" one. Reinprecht, though injured in playoffs, won the cup in top-six role with Avs. Hell, even 'doors went on to have a solid careers. It was a really deep team. And they had some amazing speed throughout the whole line-up. And yes, Iginla was great.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Pointman

I love Iginla, but the myth of 2004 squad being trash is a myth. Beyond the best RW, the best G and elite top pairing they still had solid players. Gelinas surely had a solid career with Cup ring, deep runs and 30 goals season to his name. Lydman went on two runs to ECF, leading the Sabres in TOI in one of them. Conroy was widely regarded as excellent defensive center and was nominated for Selke twice. Warrener went to the Cup finals twice before 2004 run. Chris Simon scored 29 goals once in the "old" NHL and Chris Clark scored 30 in the "new" one. Reinprecht, though injured in playoffs, won the cup in top-six role with Avs. Hell, even 'doors went on to have a solid careers. It was a really deep team. And they had some amazing speed throughout the whole line-up. And yes, Iginla was great.

There is some serious seeing what you want to see in that team. Here's the truth on that team:
- Best RW and debatably the best player in the game in 2004 in Iginla
- Best goalie in the game at that time in Kipper

After that it's pretty weak sauce:
- Conroy, a passable 2nd line center, but as you point out an excellent defensive but best suited as 3rd line shut down center.
- There was nothing elite about our top D pair. Reghre at that time was probably a legit 1st pair shut down guy, although the bulk of his career he was likely best suited for the 2nd pair. Even if you find that thought debatable, there is not debating Leopold was at best a #4 D-man.

After that, you go on and state some nice things about other players on the team, none in-accurate, but they don't mean a lot. Most of them are nice team stats or cherry picked career bests for players.

Not hard to take a scan of that roster and realize it wasn't that good:
- Conroy, was our best center.............
- Niemen, Donovan and Neilson (Marcus) was our 2nd line.
- The Doors played almost the entire playoffs for us, neither at that point were NHL regulars.

Iginla, Kipper and D.Sutter carried that team well beyond expectation, they shouldn't have been anywhere near the final.