Toronto Blue Jays - Offseason Thread - Page 28 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

howard_the_duck · 12-06-2016, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Those 2 combined for a 1.7 WAR last year. Better then anyone we added this offseason.

And Cleveland wasn't built on offense per se. If we take the extra money and create the leagues top 5 bullpen then I will understand the moved.

Sure the team can make more moves. But right now the moves aren't anything that makes the team any better, or even close to on par to last seasons team.

Carrera and Upton combined for 1.9 WAR in 2016. If we walked into the season now, it's a comparable option.

Again, how are we to know what they will/won't add this early in the offseason? If we're having this conversation in March, I agree it's cause for concern. But the Jays are one Dexter Fowler signing away from this being a ludicrous argument. It's way too early to start to pencil our depth chart and project opening day, we're not anywhere close to that yet.

howard_the_duck · 12-06-2016, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClubFlames

Mitch Moreland signs with the Red Sox. Pending a physical.

What a day for them.

They can have Moreland. Glad he won't be signing with the Jays, he's baaad.

Cappy · 12-06-2016, 05:28 PM

https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/806293726825955328

Jays talking with JB.

Jason14h · 12-06-2016, 05:30 PM

Guess I'll assume the Upton of the past 3.5 years where he was the worst of in the majors ( including his half season in Toronto ) is the real Upton, not his 4 months pre trade last season !

Which Upton are we more likely to see? Sure he could turn it around, but history says he will be terrible

bluejays · 12-06-2016, 05:49 PM

Right now let's look at the Jays holes which are preventing them from being a championship team (from largest to smallest):
RF - with JB no longer able to play, they don't have a RFer.
CF - Pilar can't hit
RP - a lot of holes - primarily the set up man role, but also long relief
LF - Upton doesn't really cut it on a championship team, but can live with him
Backup catcher - don't have one

Having said this, I really think they need a solid RF and CF, while focusing on building the bullpen. If they get Fowler, Pilar will be dealt for a RP I'd think. This is going to be a long tough off-season for the management group.

Clever_Iggy · 12-06-2016, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cappy

https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/806293726825955328

Jays talking with JB.

Gross. Was counting down the games last year waiting for him to be gone.

Orioles told him he wouldn't be a fit because their fans don't like him. Hahaha.

bluejays · 12-06-2016, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

Gross. Was counting down the games last year waiting for him to be gone.

Orioles told him he wouldn't be a fit because their fans don't like him. Hahaha.

Unlikely that's the case. The reality is that teams are generally professional. Do you think anyone calls anyone up to tell them that? Jose's agent likely doesn't have to call up teams to drum up interest, so how would a story like that be out there? Likely Baltimore fans throwing out a BS line to just stick it to Jose again.

Clever_Iggy · 12-06-2016, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fleury

Unlikely that's the case. The reality is that teams are generally professional. Do you think anyone calls anyone up to tell them that? Jose's agent likely doesn't have to call up teams to drum up interest, so how would a story like that be out there? Likely Baltimore fans throwing out a BS line to just stick it to Jose again.

Shrug.

https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status...rc=twsrc%5Etfw

Also, Steve Phillips said that JB isn't liked among many AL teams and because is defensive game has regressed so badly, NL teams don't think he can play OF full time.

http://www.tsn.ca/blue-jays-are-out-...acion-1.623894

Cappy · 12-06-2016, 06:52 PM

Honestly, I'm surprised by all the Bautista hate the jays fans have given him over the last year

Where does this come from? Was it his alleged contract demands? His arguing balls and strikes? His injury/down year?

Yeah he's 35 but so is Holliday and Beltran who are already gone. If you get JB for cheaper than that you're good. The way he can hit you can afford a liability in the field every no and again, especially since the jays are one of the better fielding teams in the league.

If it's because we all want fowler, I get that but Free agency isn't a grocery store, you don't just go in and grab what you want. (Fowler ain't coming here without a massive overpay). If we don't get fowler, who do you want in RF. Bruce?

Jason14h · 12-06-2016, 07:15 PM

I would bet anyone on this board Jose has a higher WAR then Fowler next year . We can even do a donation bet

Clever_Iggy · 12-06-2016, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cappy

Honestly, I'm surprised by all the Bautista hate the jays fans have given him over the last year

Where does this come from? Was it his alleged contract demands? His arguing balls and strikes? His injury/down year?

The way he holds himself out. Showing up pitchers. Constantly whining about balls/strikes. He had a few moments in the media that made me roll my eyes.

The alleged contract demands didn't move the needle for me. I wanted him gone anyway. His injury/down year was bound to happen with age. So that didn't matter to me either.

I was always shocked people liked him as much as they did. #1 most hated MLBer ever. Apparently I wasn't alone in that...

Skaloper · 12-06-2016, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cappy

Honestly, I'm surprised by all the Bautista hate the jays fans have given him over the last year

Where does this come from? Was it his alleged contract demands? His arguing balls and strikes? His injury/down year?

Yeah he's 35 but so is Holliday and Beltran who are already gone. If you get JB for cheaper than that you're good. The way he can hit you can afford a liability in the field every no and again, especially since the jays are one of the better fielding teams in the league.

If it's because we all want fowler, I get that but Free agency isn't a grocery store, you don't just go in and grab what you want. (Fowler ain't coming here without a massive overpay). If we don't get fowler, who do you want in RF. Bruce?

Pretty much anyone is an upgrade in field over Bautista. His bat was pretty average the past season. He is past his prime and if the Jays sign him for any multi-year deal I will not be impressed.

I'd gladly take Bruce or Fowler if the price was right.

Parallex · 12-06-2016, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cappy

If we don't get fowler, who do you want in RF. Bruce?

If it's Jose I'd rather he be in left. Mitigate his now poor range by putting him in the OF position that requires less fielding.

Parallex · 12-06-2016, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skaloper

I'd gladly take Bruce or Fowler if the price was right.

What? Bruce is a worse fielder then Jose. If the choice is Jose or Bruce give me Jose. I'd prefer Fowler... lose out on the power sure but you keep the OBP and make up the rest on baserunning and D.

Cappy · 12-06-2016, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skaloper

Pretty much anyone is an upgrade in field over Bautista. His bat was pretty average the past season. He is past his prime and if the Jays sign him for any multi-year deal I will not be impressed.

I'd gladly take Bruce or Fowler if the price was right.

Down year. Still had a 360 OBP and a 117 OPS+ It's better than jay Bruce. Bruce had a higher slugging % suggesting more feast/ famine. The Bane of jays fans existence

Joey even had a better dWAR than jay Bruce last season in RF

And if big issue is "price is right". Wouldn't be surprised if fowler gets his 18 over 5 paying him until 36/37. Bautista potentially could be had on a 1 year show me deal that is relatively cheap given the draft compensation

If we all wanted fowler so bad why didn't we get him last year in the same circumstances.

Jason14h · 12-06-2016, 07:57 PM

Fowler will be the worst FA signing of the year

Bautista injured still had pretty good numbers . Get him out of RF and he'll be way better then Bruce or Fowler

bluejays · 12-06-2016, 08:36 PM

I'm fine with bringing in Jose if the contract is right and he's DH or 1st, as he's the least of our problems. But there have to be other pieces the Jays need to fill which look more and more like the OF positions as those are simply not as good as they need to be.

calgaryblood · 12-06-2016, 10:59 PM

Always nice to see a player get burnt when they get greedy. Bautista probably left $50 million on the table because of his greed. Should have signed an extension when it was on the table rather than think he was going to keep up his play.

Cappy · 12-07-2016, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Always nice to see a player get burnt when they get greedy. Bautista probably left $50 million on the table because of his greed. Should have signed an extension when it was on the table rather than think he was going to keep up his play.

I don't remember the jays offering him a contract st the beginning of the season. I can't find a link either

Inferno · 12-07-2016, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cappy

I don't remember the jays offering him a contract st the beginning of the season. I can't find a link either

I remember him giving them contract demands in Spring Training saying he's taken enough of a hometown discount already but I don't recall them ever giving him an offer either.