[News] Patrick Kane being investigated for rape. UPD: DA announces no charges

[CliffFletcher]

There are various factors at play, including reliance on myths and stereotypes to discourage the complainant from testifying in court and to attack the credibility of the complainant.

That sounds like a political statement more than a legal one. The reason prosecutions are statistically rare in sexual assault cases is because the alleged incidents almost always take place in private, and physical evidence is often lacking, leaving it to a case of he said versus she said. Our courts rarely prosecute on the basis of one person's testimony - and that goes for all crimes, not just sexual assaults.

In other words, even if we root out all sexism and victim-blaming from the system, we still won't see sexual assault charges successfully prosecuted nearly as often as other criminal charges. And as much as that's disheartening, I don't think anyone who's familiar with history or with how courts work in some other countries want us to move to a system where one person's allegations alone can get another person put in prison.

[The Coppernian One]

Don't know if this has been posted, and I haven't gone through the previous number of pages and discussion to find out, but here's an article on this from the MSN page:

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/nhl/...ape/ar-BBlE2Av

Edit - by "this" I mean related to Kane and the events, not the broader philosophical/legal discussion (although their tied together).

[Poe969]

so do we know anything about the other person involved?

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Poe969

so do we know anything about the other person involved?

According to AP, sources are saying she is in her 20s. So the statutory rape rumors are bunk.

The bar manager at the bar where they supposedly met, claims he saw a woman just follow Kane around and follow Kane and his friends out of the bar. He readily admits that he doesn't know if the woman he saw is the same woman who is accusing Kane.

Then there are gossip stuff (i.e. from unreliable sources) that I don't really feel comfortable sharing.

[Hackey]

We sort of know her side of the story a little bit. Met at bar. Went to Kane's house. Was with a friend. Went to a room alone. Kane followed. Incident took place. Scratches on legs and bite marks. She left and called a family member I believe then went to the hospital and then went to the police.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by The Coppernian One

Don't know if this has been posted, and I haven't gone through the previous number of pages and discussion to find out, but here's an article on this from the MSN page:

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/nhl/...ape/ar-BBlE2Av

Edit - by "this" I mean related to Kane and the events, not the broader philosophical/legal discussion (although their tied together).

I haven't read the actual article where the excerts came from but seems like people just reported what they saw. A woman who was with Kane for a couple hours and was flirty with him. Kane wasn't drunk out of his mind. He was being respectful. He wasn't sure if it was the same girl or not. I mean I guess that could be trying to steer perception a certain way but it could also just be the truth. Doesn't seem like he's insinuating anything.

[united]

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The reason prosecutions are statistically rare in sexual assault cases is because the alleged incidents almost always take place in private, and physical evidence is often lacking, leaving it to a case of he said versus she said. Our courts rarely prosecute on the basis of one person's testimony - and that goes for all crimes, not just sexual assaults.

In other words, even if we root out all sexism and victim-blaming from the system, we still won't see sexual assault charges successfully prosecuted nearly as often as other criminal charges. And as much as that's disheartening, I don't think anyone who's familiar with history or with how courts work in some other countries want us to move to a system where one person's allegations alone can get another person put in prison.

This simply is not true. In Canada, the Crown frequently prosecutes sexual assaults based purely on the statement of a complainant (which, as you correctly note, is the only Crown evidence in the majority of sexual assault cases). Further, courts frequently convict an accused person solely or primarily on the basis of a complainant's evidence so long as, after being subjected to cross-examination etc., the complainant's evidence is credible and the evidence of the accused (if he or she testifies) is not credible enough to raise a reasonable doubt.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Makarov

This simply is not true. In Canada, the Crown frequently prosecutes sexual assaults based purely on the statement of a complainant (which, as you correctly note, is the only Crown evidence in the majority of sexual assault cases). Further, courts frequently convict an accused person solely or primarily on the basis of a complainant's evidence so long as, after being subjected to cross-examination etc., the complainant's evidence is credible and the evidence of the accused (if he or she testifies) is not credible enough to raise a reasonable doubt.

So really in Canada I can be charged with sexual assault if I am less believable than my accuser with no other evidence? Wow that's an eye opener.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Weitz

So really in Canada I can be charged with sexual assault if I am less believable than my accuser with no other evidence? Wow that's an eye opener.

Not exactly. For example, your evidence could be less credible than the complainant's and yet still raise a reasonable doubt and therefore cause you to be acquitted. "Beyond a reasonable doubt" is a very high standard of proof.

[DJones]

http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/23709/

Just saw this. Not related to Kane's case but just goes to show how Looney Tunes the states is getting over "rape culture"

Very glad that the student is allowed to sue the school.

Why you can't make any judgements without more facts.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by DJones

http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/23709/

Just saw this. Not related to Kane's case but just goes to show how Looney Tunes the states is getting over "rape culture"

Very glad that the student is allowed to sue the school.

Why you can't make any judgements without more facts.

Organizations that are aggressively trying to expand the definition of rape think they're doing the right thing for women. But when they overstep the bounds of rational sense so far - in this case trying to get sex that leaves one of the participants regretful and unhappy qualified as rape - they're courting a public and legal backlash. In their crusading zeal they seem to have abandoned all sense of proportionality and logic.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

The 'thanks' my posts have received would seem to indicate the general pulse is people agree with me.

If I thank this post, will you stop whining and move on, already?

[DJones]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Organizations that are aggressively trying to expand the definition of rape think they're doing the right thing for women. But when they overstep the bounds of rational sense so far - in this case trying to get sex that leaves one of the participants regretful and unhappy qualified as rape - they're courting a public and legal backlash. In their crusading zeal they seem to have abandoned all sense of proportionality and logic.

It is written that she got jealous when he moved on. It seems like a key fact that no one is arguing.

That is just insane. Not one person stopped and thought "this is completely ridiculous"

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by DJones

It is written that she got jealous when he moved on. It seems like a key fact that no one is arguing.

That is just insane. Not one person stopped and thought "this is completely ridiculous"

As I understand it, that decision was regarding a motion to strike the plaintiff (student)'s action. Therefore, in deciding whether to strike or not, the judge simply accepts the plaintiff's allegations as true for the purposes of the motion. Every allegation made by the plaintiff will not necessarily be proven at trial.

[Brando]

Originally Posted by Weitz

So really in Canada I can be charged with sexual assault if I am less believable than my accuser with no other evidence? Wow that's an eye opener.

A person I know has been charged with rape by his x-wife. She claims 6 years ago while they were dating he didn't stop quickly enough during consensual sex when she told him to stop because it was hurting her (I am talking 3 to 5 seconds). Since then they married, had a child, got divorced. She became addicted to pain killers and then meth during the marriage that obviously became toxic causing him to finally leave after roughly 5 years. She has since been arrested multiple times for drug offenses, driving while impaired, assault, and shop lifting. Total train wreck. Then the moment he meets a girl and moves on she goes to the police and he is arrested at his work in front of the public and co workers. Everyone knows about it and he has been told by his lawyer not to talk about it or try to defend himself against anyone. His lawyer thinks he has a good case but his legal fees will be around $20,000. I can't tell you he is a hundred percent innocent and if he isn't I hope he rots in a cell. Either way someone is a monster and needs to be punished accordingly. Stay away from the crazy ones and you should be fine.

[OutOfTheCube]

Originally Posted by Brando

A person I know has been charged with rape by his x-wife. She claims 6 years ago while they were dating he didn't stop quickly enough during consensual sex when she told him to stop because it was hurting her (I am talking 3 to 5 seconds). Since then they married, had a child, got divorced. She became addicted to pain killers and then meth during the marriage that obviously became toxic causing him to finally leave after roughly 5 years. She has since been arrested multiple times for drug offenses, driving while impaired, assault, and shop lifting. Total train wreck. Then the moment he meets a girl and moves on she goes to the police and he is arrested at his work in front of the public and co workers. Everyone knows about it and he has been told by his lawyer not to talk about it or try to defend himself against anyone. His lawyer thinks he has a good case but his legal fees will be around $20,000. I can't tell you he is a hundred percent innocent and if he isn't I hope he rots in a cell. Either way someone is a monster and needs to be punished accordingly. Stay away from the crazy ones and you should be fine.

So you think if he is guilty of the first bolded part that he is a monster and should rot in a cell? A little extreme...

[heep223]

Never put it in crazy. Sheesh don't these people know yet

[Brando]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

So you think if he is guilty of the first bolded part that he is a monster and should rot in a cell? A little extreme...

I think if he is guilty of rape he should go to jail for a very long time. If this truly happened it could have caused her life to spiral out of control to the point she is today. When a girl says no or to stop then stop. My mother and two of her sisters were molested as pre teens by a family friend so that may add to why I feel so strongly.

[TX_Flame]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

"Threads being even slightly off-topic make my OCD flare up!"

LOL