Shooting at Movie screening of TDKR in Colorado

[T@T]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Yeah as far as short term there is literally nothing that can be effectively done, and i guess that's what i was getting at as far as that goes. Long term? That would require an amendment to the constitution, and that's a whole different can o' worms.

Living there and making as many friends as i did, the whole gun ownership thing is ingrained into the collective quite deeply. These are very stand up, legitimate, law abiding citizens that see what they do as nothing more than a birth right (and constitutionally they are 100% correct).

We would go out shooting sometimes and i never knew what would be brought along til i got there, AR's, glocks, pistols and rifles all were part of the days events, and there no never any hesitation about any of them as everything we did was done with safety and responsibility at the forefront.

That's why it would be so hard to get people to change....because the vast vast majority of people with guns ARE responsible with them, and any major changes to their abilities to do so, would be seen as an afront to their ways of doing things correctly.

Most canadians dont understand that and see the issue as black and white....it just isnt that simple though.

I could care less about your little hobbies that you think are safe,it is clear you are wrong considering death and injury from firearm accidents are a close second only behind auto accidents in the USA. when over a 100,000 people are shot (accident or not) each year in the USA anyone with a half a lobe should know theres a problem that should be fixed.

As a canadian the only issue I really care about is the thousands of american guns being smuggled into my country. That is black and white.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by t@t

i could care less about your little hobbies that you think are safe,it is clear you are wrong considering death and injury from firearm accidents are a close second only behind auto accidents in the usa. When over a 100,000 people are shot (accident or not) each year in the usa anyone with a half a lobe should know theres a problem that should be fixed.

As a canadian the only issue i really care about is the thousands of american guns being smuggled into my country. that is black and white.

lol!

[Azure]

Originally Posted by transplant99

lol!

Don't bother arguing with him. I've been down that road before. He's pretty deadset in the ideas that guns are evil and need to be banned, and not only that, he's naive enough to think it will work.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by transplant99

lol!

Sure...funny topic and great response!

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Azure

Don't bother arguing with him. I've been down that road before. He's pretty deadset in the ideas that guns are evil and need to be banned, and not only that, he's naive enough to think it will work.

I don't believe in "evil"

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by T@T

Sure...funny topic and great response!

No, your inability to comprehend what i was saying is what's funny....but hardly surprising.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by transplant99

No, your inability to comprehend what i was saying is what's funny....but hardly surprising.

Well,maybe you should re-think your words, I read it twice and you got my response from what I read, Last time I was tested my IQ was 128 so I have no problem claiming I'm no dummy.

Your words are like a broken record heard from american gun freaks everytime this issue come up...it never changes. At least you didn't bring up a stupid ammendment wrote 300 years ago. Fact is there is no other developed country on this planet with the gun problems of the grand USA.

I have a great idea, how about you state why you think Americans should keep their 300 million guns.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by T@T

Well,maybe you should re-think your words, I read it twice and you got my response from what I read, Last time I was tested my IQ was 128 so I have no problem claiming I'm no dummy.

Your words are like a broken record heard from american gun freaks everytime this issue come up...it never changes. At least you didn't bring up a stupid ammendment wrote 300 years ago. Fact is there is no other developed country on this planet with the gun problems of the grand USA.

I have a great idea, how about you state why you think Americans should keep their 300 million guns.

1. Who gets their IQ tested? What purpose does that have?

2. Banning guns is not realistic and frankly a little extreme.

3. There are types of guns that should be banned and they should be tightly controlled in my opinion, assault rifles, handguns and generally anything potentially easily hidden I have no use for.

4. Calling people "gun freaks" is no way to build constructive discussion and serves to make your brilliant IQ appear lower than it actually is.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

1. Who gets their IQ tested? What purpose does that have?

2. Banning guns is not realistic and frankly a little extreme.

3. There are types of guns that should be banned and they should be tightly controlled in my opinion, assault rifles, handguns and generally anything potentially easily hidden I have no use for.

4. Calling people "gun freaks" is no way to build constructive discussion and serves to make your brilliant IQ appear lower than it actually is.

1) You must be young,had mine done 3 times..elementary,high school and university.
2) See 3
3) Agreed
4) Probably right..I might be getting old and crusty

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by T@T

Well,maybe you should re-think your words, I read it twice and you got my response from what I read, Last time I was tested my IQ was 128 so I have no problem claiming I'm no dummy.

Your words are like a broken record heard from american gun freaks everytime this issue come up...it never changes. At least you didn't bring up a stupid ammendment wrote 300 years ago. Fact is there is no other developed country on this planet with the gun problems of the grand USA.

I have a great idea, how about you state why you think Americans should keep their 300 million guns.

If you were as smart as you think you are, i think you would be able to comprehend what i wrote. I never defended in any way, shape or form what my friends believe or do with their guns. And no, they are not "freaks' of any sort. Therefore I have no reason to state why I think they should keep their weapons other than to state that they not only bought and own them legally and use them in an entirely safe way. Not to mention that it is the law that they can.

I dont own a gun....never have and likely never will. Im not an American, but it nice of you to lump me in with all of them. Some of my best friends on this planet reside South of the 49th and I cherish their friendships as much as any others.

You seemingly cant grasp the fact that this issue is so much more complex than "ban them all". Going any further with you is pointless because you simply cant remove your emotional hatred of everything gun related and delve into the complexities of the issue.....but i guess you are smart enough to know that....right?

[T@T]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I dont own a gun....never have and likely never will. Im not an American, but it nice of you to lump me in with all of them.

I know this..but yet:

I had no shortage of ways to get a hold of pretty much anything i wanted had i chosen too. (and i mean anything from 6 shooters to Ak's)

Living there and making as many friends as i did, the whole gun ownership thing is ingrained into the collective quite deeply. These are very stand up, legitimate, law abiding citizens that see what they do as nothing more than a birth right (and constitutionally they are 100% correct).

We would go out shooting sometimes and i never knew what would be brought along til i got there, AR's, glocks, pistols and rifles all were part of the days events, and there no never any hesitation about any of them as everything we did was done with safety and responsibility at the forefront.

Seems to me you actually like these activities and agree with them, Please don't claim the foreigner excuse.We all have choices and you chose to go with it.

And you still haven't answered my question. Your starting to remind me of calgaryborn but thankfully on a different subject.

I guess you can take solace in knowing you have the resident hillbilly and conspiracy theorist "Mr.A" on your side though.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by PIMking

Yeah the good ole Fox News rant... I don't watch fox news or any of the other liberal crap either. Seriously think about it, I'm not saying that they did I am saying that the FBI and CIA have done this sort of red flag thing before and it's been publicized. Things in this case aren't adding up, why would he give him self up with out a fight and all that body armour? why would he tell the police his house was booby trapped? how did he afford all that equipment while being in grad school and unemployed? (15-20k worth)
Something isn't kosher here boys, I'm not saying the Government did it but it's not adding up.
It's just convienient that this happend a week before the UN gun treaty.

Did you think maybe the NRA would do it just to fire up the Libs.
Maybe its a new donor drive.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by T@T

I know this..but yet:

Seems to me you actually like these activities and agree with them, Please don't claim the foreigner excuse.We all have choices and you chose to go with it.

And you still haven't answered my question. Your starting to remind me of calgaryborn but thankfully on a different subject.

I guess you can take solace in knowing you have the resident hillbilly and conspiracy theorist "Mr.A" on your side though.

Whether or not I enjoyed target shooting with buddies has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Though just because it will bother you I will tell you in my most hillbilly voice "hell yeah I did"!!

You simply dont get it, or are to simple to get it....im actually beginning to believe its the latter.

And your proving with the bolded part...you have no ability to either understand or beleive this a very complex issue, so im not wasting time with you.

[Red Slinger]

I don't really see why this debate is about guns. I'm no advocate of guns but regardless of the laws in place the shooter would have found a way to harm and kill many innocent people.

The only thing I can think of that may have been done to prevent this (besides this guy not losing his mind) is tighter security protocols at the theatre.

[Flames_Gimp]

this thread is still a pro/anti gun pissing match?

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Yeah cause its just as easy for the average person to buy guns off the black market than at a local sporting good store?

Where's your black market at? How do you get a hold of them? Do you walk into the ghetto and start shouting you're looking to buy some guns? Do you walk into some shady asian restaurant in chinatown and ask around? Seriously, how is the average person going to find a black market arms dealer?

Stupid, stupid argument.

The ease of purchasing guns directly correlates to how often gun incidents can happen.

Sure we can't stop someone from researching how to make homemade bombs. That is a different argument.

But to suggest the average person can just as easily acquire a gun from the black market is a very dumb argument. Surprised it has been made several times in this thread already since it is fairly obvious that it is much, much harder for the average person to find guns via this route vs a gun shop/sporting good store/etc.

Making guns much, much harder to acquire would reduce violent gun incidences no?

I havn't drank in several years but, when I did and was bar hopping in Idaho/Montana people a few times offered to get me automatics over a couple beers. My friends have often had simular experiences. In a more urban area I suppose I would check with my local drug dealer. They probably have more call for weapons than others.

Now this Holmes guy might not have looked normal enough to be trusted. I don't know. But if he had 6 months planning I just can't believe he wouldn't have found someone who wanted to make a buck.

[FlameOn]

Ouch. Stats about gun-related homicides in the US are staggering. US gun related homicides are 20 times higher than the combined rate of the next 22 GDP ranked countries. Researchers determined the rate of gun related homicides in the US was 4.1 per 100000 people vs. 0.2 per 100000 people in the next 22 countries.
http://www.politifact.com/virginia/s...te-20-times-h/

With almost a gun for every person in the US, its really hard to prevent a single wacko from just finding a weapon and hosing a bunch of people. Say what you will about gun control laws, they seem to be effective if enough of them are taken off the streets. US gun related homicides in 2008 12000+, Japan 11. Though that does punish people with legitimate uses for guns.
http://www.theatlantic.com/internati...deaths/260189/

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Ouch. Stats about gun-related homicides in the US are staggering. US gun related homicides are 20 times higher than the combined rate of the next 22 GDP ranked countries. Researchers determined the rate of gun related homicides in the US was 4.1 per 100000 people vs. 0.2 per 100000 people in the next 22 countries.
http://www.politifact.com/virginia/s...te-20-times-h/

With almost a gun for every person in the US, its really hard to prevent a single wacko from just finding a weapon and hosing a bunch of people. Say what you will about gun control laws, they seem to be effective. US gun related homicides in 2008 12000+, Japan 11.
http://www.theatlantic.com/internati...deaths/260189/

Well maybe Obama should protect the southern border. It may not be the solution for places like Chicago but, it would sure help in the southern border towns.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Reading about these courageous sacrifices in the name of love really only enrages me more that this waste of life destroyed the lives of people who made society better

Of the 12 people killed in the Aurora theater shooting, four of them were men who made the ultimate sacrifice to protect their girlfriends. Now, each of these women are struggling to come to terms with both their grief and their gratitude.

Alexander Teves, 24, attended the midnight screening of "The Dark Knight Rises" with his girlfriend Amanda Lindgren , 24,and another friend.

When suspected gunman James Holmes opened fire in the sold out theater, Teves immediately lunged to block Lindgren from the gunfire.

"I was really, really confused at first about what was going on, so confused," Lindgren told ABC News. "But, it's like Alex didn't even hesitate. Because I sat there for a minute, not knowing what was going on, and he held me down and he covered my head and he said, 'Shh stay down. It's ok. Shh just stay down.' So I did."

Teves blocked the bullets from Lindgren but he was shot and killed. She was not hit.

"He was my angel that night, but he was my angel every day I knew him," Lindgren said. "I'm broken."

Lindgren reflected on the profoundly close relationship she had with Teves, saying that the couple would not go an hour in the day "without missing each other terribly."

"My other half was just ripped apart from me and so for me it's still unreal," she said. "I can't picture my life without him. How do you? When someone loves you that much and you love somebody that much…how do you believe that this is real? And of all places. We were in that theater, that specific room. We were just supposed to watch a movie."

When asked if she thought Teves knew he was putting himself in danger for her, Lindgren said, "I know he did. He'd do anything for me. He always told me that, too. I just wish I could have protected him the same way he protected me."

Teves' father Tom Teves is also devastated, but said that his son is still with him.
"I'm hollow. But Alex has come and brought me…from heaven, he's been bringing me hope," Teves told ABC News. "He's still my inspiration. And I know now more than ever that there is a God. Because of Alex. Because Alex is still coming through. Because that's the kind of man he is."

Elsewhere in theater nine, John Larimer and his girlfriend Julia Vojtsek went through a similar situation.

U.S. Navy Petty Officer 3rd Class John Larimer, 26, and his girlfriend Julia Vojtsek, 23, were sitting int the middle of the theater when the shooting began.

"John immediately and instinctively covered me and brought me to the ground in order to protect me from any danger," Vojtsek wrote in a statement. "Moments later, John knowingly shielded me from a spray of gunshots. It was then I believe John was hit with a bullet that would have very possibly struck me. I feel very strongly that I was saved by John and his ultimate kindness."

The couple had known each other since they were 21 and 18 years old when they met working at a Chili's in Illinois, where they are both from. Larimer was home for the summer from school and Vojtsek was getting ready to go to college. They became close and stayed in touch with Facebook and text messages.

This summer, Vojtsek's father Fred Vojtsek came to Colorado to work for an extended period of time. When Julia Vojtsek traveled to Colorado to spend part of her summer with her father, she told him that Larimer was stationed in Aurora and he encouraged her to see him.

"I wanted her to see him because he would have been a kid that a father wants to see his daughter with, a kid of values and things like that," Fred Vojtsek told ABCNews.com. He said his daughter and Larimer became boyfriend and girlfriend about three weeks ago. "So many kids these days don't really want to hear what parents have to say or engage or listen, and he did. That's what stood out with me."

"We were planning on going to church Saturday night," Vojstek said. "He was a good kid."

Fred Vojstek has been staying in a place just minutes away from from the Century 16 movie theater where the shooting took place. His panicked daughter called him as she was running out of the theater and he arrived within minutes of the shooting.

"She was hysterical and then she got more into a shock stage," Vojtsek said.

Since then, Julia Vojtsek has told her father that she was at the movie with Larimer, two other navy men and a woman. Fred Vojtsek said that after Larimer was shot, the other two navy members were "unbelievable" in making sure his daughter got out safely, even though they had just met her earlier that day.

"I'm grateful my daughter is alive and hopeful he can get through this," Vojtsek said, adding that she is "very, very traumatized."
He said that Larimer's family has been very good to his daughter and that he is "eternally grateful" for Larimer and his Navy friends for saving his daughter.

Vojtsek wrote that just weeks earlier, Larimer had spoken to her about his further advancement in the military.

"John convincingly stated to me that he wanted to be deployed for two simple reasons: He wanted to protect his country, and he wanted to save others from danger and harm," she wrote. "John adamantly wanted to make a difference in the world, and he thought that his military service would be the best chance for him to do so."

"John served his country to the fullest, fulfilling both of his goals," she added.

In addition to these two couples, Matthew McQuinn, 27, and Jon Blunk, 26, died saving their girlfriends in similar ways. Their girlfriends Samantha Yowler, 26, and Jansen Young, 21, did not respond to requests for comment.

http://gma.yahoo.com/women-survived-...opstories.html

[SeeBass]

It's too bad the guy didnt attack everybody with an exploding shampoo bottle.

It seems resonable to limit shampoo bottle sizes on planes for safety with a grand total of 0 deaths.

Not being able to carry a litre of shampoo on a plane is a violation of ones rights to pursue happiness. Where is my lobby group for Proctor and Gamble.