"Take that Calgary Puck!" — SN960 and Calgary sports media discussion

[Freeway]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

How many years of reporting and editing experience do you have that qualifies you to evaluate journalistic talent?

Nepotism certainly gets you in the door, but you can't hang on for decades based on mummy's help alone. Ryan Pike is reading this, care to weigh in?

My only comment is it's completely fair game to criticize aspects of peoples' work. It's a whole other thing, an off-side thing, to ascribe motivations or judgments of character to them.

[Circa89]

Francis is polarizing, personally I like him , always have ever since he went under cover to try out for the Hamilton Tiger Cats as a place kicker and nearly made the team.

Bruce Dowbiggen on the other hand .. I know he is an acclaimed journalist but he just screams arrogant, pseudo-intellectual, drama kid trying to hang with the jocks/cool kids and falls short. He was the Diane Chambers ( Cheers) of the local sports media scene

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Circa89

Francis is polarizing, personally I like him , always have ever since he went under cover to try out for the Hamilton Tiger Cats as a place kicker and nearly made the team.

Bruce Dowbiggen on the other hand .. I know he is an acclaimed journalist but he just screams arrogant, pseudo-intellectual, drama kid trying to hang with the jocks/cool kids and falls short. He was the Diane Chambers ( Cheers) of the local sports media scene

Dowbiggen seemed like he really wanted to emulate Duhatschek, but just couldn't.

Francis is like a lot of media: reporting facts is fine. Having access is a two way street, you have to play nice or lose access, which means selective reporting and sometimes being a mouthpiece. And then there's the clickbait game which includes taking certain stances to extremes.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Circa89

Francis is polarizing, personally I like him , always have ever since he went under cover to try out for the Hamilton Tiger Cats as a place kicker and nearly made the team.

Bruce Dowbiggen on the other hand .. I know he is an acclaimed journalist but he just screams arrogant, pseudo-intellectual, drama kid trying to hang with the jocks/cool kids and falls short. He was the Diane Chambers ( Cheers) of the local sports media scene

Dowbiggen didn't seem to like anything Calgary-related.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I spoke with Dowbiggen 1:1 about how he approached his work. When I was at MRC he came by and talked to one of our classes, and then I talked to him for 15 minutes after. For what its worth, he was very nice and giving with his time.

What he told me was his entire career was built on being a contrarian. He constantly looked at the prevailing opinion and went the other way. Or the way he said it was "I look at where the parade is marching, and I march hard the other way". it was how he separated himself from others....by offering a different voice and POV. His view was that there were too many voices saying all the same things. He wanted to be different and was very intentional about that.

That explains a lot of what we heard from him. He was never my cup of tea, but I understood his rationale.

[Titan2]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

...He was never my cup of team, but I understood his rationale.

Ironic freudian slip for a sports reporter!!

For what its worth I am related to someone that worked closely with Francis for years and they say he is a wonderful guy with some warts like the rest of us.

Also, if family was not allowed to help family get jobs, half of Calgary would be unemployed.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Titan2

Ironic freudian slip for a sports reporter!!

For what its worth I am related to someone that worked closely with Francis for years and they say he is a wonderful guy with some warts like the rest of us.

Also, if family was not allowed to help family get jobs, half of Calgary would be unemployed.

Why direct that at Calgary? It is equally true everywhere, and I don't think there is any reason whatsoever to think it is any more prevalent here than elsewhere.

[rogermexico]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I spoke with Dowbiggen 1:1 about how he approached his work. When I was at MRC he came by and talked to one of our classes, and then I talked to him for 15 minutes after. For what its worth, he was very nice and giving with his time.

What he told me was his entire career was built on being a contrarian. He constantly looked at the prevailing opinion and went the other way. Or the way he said it was "I look at where the parade is marching, and I march hard the other way". it was how he separated himself from others....by offering a different voice and POV. His view was that there were too many voices saying all the same things. He wanted to be different and was very intentional about that.

That explains a lot of what we heard from him. He was never my cup of team, but I understood his rationale.

Yeah I had a similar experience with him. I did a radio hit with him on CBC once years ago (not talking about hockey). Before we went to air he said to me "Remember, our job is to be entertaining, and it isn't entertaining if we just agree with each other."

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Maybe its me, but I think its wise for media to stay out of online discussions that pertain to them/peers and involve critiques and honest opinions.

Lets just say a flames announcer had a bit of a crash out on here a few years back because people had criticisms about his style/delivery. Since then this kind of stuff makes me uneasy because of how it can veer into personal territory once in a while, even though critiques and opinions are allowed and usually not personal but just based on what we see, hear and read because its literally being presented to and for us to consume. We can have feelings and thoughts about the quality of it.

People in that arena that get wrapped up in trying to control narratives and put out fires in online spaces is a futile endeavor anyhow, and usually winds up in making things worse.

As for Francis, he probably cares the least of any one about the noise which is why he's lasted as long as he has as the resident contrarian, so im not sure he needs peers in the media defending his honor lol.

When did people go soft on Francis anyhow. He had hate threads running here for years. And he probably relished it.

Maybe people forget what younger Francis was like. The reputation was earned. He's softened up himself lately in old age, but he wasn't as honorable as media people here chiming in here back in his heyday.

Strange timeline indeed.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I spoke with Dowbiggen 1:1 about how he approached his work. When I was at MRC he came by and talked to one of our classes, and then I talked to him for 15 minutes after. For what its worth, he was very nice and giving with his time.

What he told me was his entire career was built on being a contrarian. He constantly looked at the prevailing opinion and went the other way. Or the way he said it was "I look at where the parade is marching, and I march hard the other way". it was how he separated himself from others....by offering a different voice and POV. His view was that there were too many voices saying all the same things. He wanted to be different and was very intentional about that.

That explains a lot of what we heard from him. He was never my cup of tea, but I understood his rationale.

fair enough although (in an era before the term fake news existed) I felt often his contrarian ways actually involved him spouting facts that he must have known were not actually true (as he's a smart guy I think) and that bothered me

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Maybe its me, but I think its wise for media to stay out of online discussions that pertain to them/peers and involve critiques and honest opinions.

Lets just say a flames announcer had a bit of a crash out on here a few years back because people had criticisms about his style/delivery. Since then this kind of stuff makes me uneasy because of how it can veer into personal territory once in a while, even though critiques and opinions are allowed and usually not personal but just based on what we see, hear and read because its literally being presented to and for us to consume. We can have feelings and thoughts about the quality of it.

People in that arena that get wrapped up in trying to control narratives and put out fires in online spaces is a futile endeavor anyhow, and usually winds up in making things worse.

As for Francis, he probably cares the least of any one about the noise which is why he's lasted as long as he has as the resident contrarian, so im not sure he needs peers in the media defending his honor lol.

When did people go soft on Francis anyhow. He had hate threads running here for years. And he probably relished it.

Maybe people forget what younger Francis was like. The reputation was earned. He's softened up himself lately in old age, but he wasn't as honorable as media people here chiming in here back in his heyday.

Strange timeline indeed.

Criticism is fine but maybe avoid saying things like this “ Gaudreau and his family didn't like Francis.”
That’s not an opinion. That’s a statement of fact that you should be challenged to back up.
Otherwise it’s over the line

[habernac]

Not sure what Johnny’s family thinks of him, but he sure didn’t work to try to keep him in town. He #### on him from day one. I don’t watch him during intermission because I still don’t like him. Great that he does good stuff in the community, but he’s not for me.

[GioforPM]

Strikes me that being a contrarian on purpose is being purposely dishonest.

[cam_calderon]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Maybe its me, but I think its wise for media to stay out of online discussions that pertain to them/peers and involve critiques and honest opinions.

Lets just say a flames announcer had a bit of a crash out on here a few years back because people had criticisms about his style/delivery. Since then this kind of stuff makes me uneasy because of how it can veer into personal territory once in a while, even though critiques and opinions are allowed and usually not personal but just based on what we see, hear and read because its literally being presented to and for us to consume. We can have feelings and thoughts about the quality of it.

People in that arena that get wrapped up in trying to control narratives and put out fires in online spaces is a futile endeavor anyhow, and usually winds up in making things worse.

As for Francis, he probably cares the least of any one about the noise which is why he's lasted as long as he has as the resident contrarian, so im not sure he needs peers in the media defending his honor lol.

When did people go soft on Francis anyhow. He had hate threads running here for years. And he probably relished it.

Maybe people forget what younger Francis was like. The reputation was earned. He's softened up himself lately in old age, but he wasn't as honorable as media people here chiming in here back in his heyday.

Strange timeline indeed.

Now you're lecturing Freeway, one of the best contributors on this board considering his reporting on the club, when he answered my question respectfully, if a little conservatively.

Jiri asked you for evidence of your baseless claim that Francis was disliked by the Gaudreaus. Where is it?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I spoke with Dowbiggen 1:1 about how he approached his work. When I was at MRC he came by and talked to one of our classes, and then I talked to him for 15 minutes after. For what its worth, he was very nice and giving with his time.

What he told me was his entire career was built on being a contrarian. He constantly looked at the prevailing opinion and went the other way. Or the way he said it was "I look at where the parade is marching, and I march hard the other way". it was how he separated himself from others....by offering a different voice and POV. His view was that there were too many voices saying all the same things. He wanted to be different and was very intentional about that.

That explains a lot of what we heard from him. He was never my cup of tea, but I understood his rationale.

That doesn't sound to me like someone who is providing commentary and analysis with some integrity. I like to think when I am reading someone's opinion that there is a degree of authenticity. Otherwise I guess we should just assume that they are knowingly omitting information that is contrary to their "take".

[cam_calderon]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Strikes me that being a contrarian on purpose is being purposely dishonest.

All talking heads are playing a character, to an extent. Any producer will tell you that a TV segment or radio hit where everyone is on the same page is boring, and that show will eventually bleed viewers.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

That doesn't sound to me like someone who is providing commentary and analysis with some integrity. I like to think when I am reading someone's opinion that there is a degree of authenticity. Otherwise I guess we should just assume that they are knowingly omitting information that is contrary to their "take".

Yeah and I think he actually did that
There were numerous times where he seems to have facts wrong or omitted. I wasn’t a fan

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

All talking heads are playing a character, to an extent. Any producer will tell you that a TV segment or radio hit where everyone is on the same page is boring, and that show will eventually bleed viewers.

That may be true, but the cure is not to pretend to have views that you don't. It's for the producers to cast people who naturally have different points of view.

[Samonadreau]

Anyone that has a huge problem with Francis can go read Staples and Spector and report back if the opinion has changed.

Hes not perfect, but it could be a heck of a lot worse.

[NegativeSpace]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

That may be true, but the cure is not to pretend to have views that you don't. It's for the producers to cast people who naturally have different points of view.

One of the main problems with present day media is the lack of actual authentic reporting and opinions. So much of the media landscape is pandering for views, clicks, and attention that it is quite rare to see someone just have an opinion openly and honestly. I say this knowing that I do not earn any income from needing people to follow my work, which I imagine is quite demoralizing.