Ongoing Calgarians complaining about pedestrian bridges thread

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Muta

That's their design style, which clients seem to like. And it fits the client's budget, too. That's exactly what I'm talking about. It's the same reason as to why people would go eat at McDonald's or Burger King instead of somewhere else. Familiarity and price. The quality is what it is.

Yep, they are basically the McDonalds of architecture. They are both quick, cheap....and make you take a big shart as soon as you've utilized their product.

If that's their style and tactic, thats fine. But I'm not going to expect them to up their game just for a competition then. You can't be hawking cheap burgers your whole life, and then all of a sudden come out with a filet mignon. I feel like quality is not that simple to switch on and off. To achieve quality, you have to have the mindset to do good work right from the start.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by North East Goon

I question why we needed another pedestrian only bridge. Another Auto commuter into downtown with pedestrain access on the side would have been more well received - no?

Where would you build it, and how do you build it for $22 million? IMO the most urgent infrastructure project for Calgary is the downtown subway, but that doesn't mean it could have been built instead of a pedestrian bridge.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by SebC

Where would you build it, and how do you build it for $22 million? IMO the most urgent infrastructure project for Calgary is the downtown subway, but that doesn't mean it could have been built instead of a pedestrian bridge.

I agree, a downtown subway would be terrifc to see.

[getbak]

I have a question that's related to the functionality of the bridge, rather than the look.

Based on the sketches I've seen, and the information I've read, the south end of the bridge will be a little east of the helipad, and the north end will be somewhere around 8th St NW.

My question is, how is someone going to get from Sunnyside on the north side of Memorial to this bridge?

Right now, the only two ways across the river for a cyclist or a pedestrian are the Louise Bridge at 10th St, or the bridge by the Curling Club over Prince's Island. Traffic at 10th St is controlled by lights and pedestrians have a crosswalk, and there is an overpass by the C-Train bridge. At the Curling Club, there is a pedestrian overpass over Memorial.

Other than taking your life into your own hands by crossing Memorial directly, there doesn't seem to be any way for someone to get from Sunnyside to this new bridge (other than the existing crossings).

Is there a plan for some way to get people from Sunnyside to this new bridge, other than putting up flashing Pedestrian lights at 8th and Memorial (which would just make Memorial an even bigger cluster during rush hour)?

[Table 5]

So what youre saying is we should call back Santiago and have him design a second bridge. Deal!

[V]

Aren't there traffic signals at 7th?

[CaptainCrunch]

I'd like to see the bridge as a little larger thrusting aggresively into the city core splitng downtown in half.

[trew]

Originally Posted by getbak

I have a question that's related to the functionality of the bridge, rather than the look.

Based on the sketches I've seen, and the information I've read, the south end of the bridge will be a little east of the helipad, and the north end will be somewhere around 8th St NW.

My question is, how is someone going to get from Sunnyside on the north side of Memorial to this bridge?

Right now, the only two ways across the river for a cyclist or a pedestrian are the Louise Bridge at 10th St, or the bridge by the Curling Club over Prince's Island. Traffic at 10th St is controlled by lights and pedestrians have a crosswalk, and there is an overpass by the C-Train bridge. At the Curling Club, there is a pedestrian overpass over Memorial.

Other than taking your life into your own hands by crossing Memorial directly, there doesn't seem to be any way for someone to get from Sunnyside to this new bridge (other than the existing crossings).

Is there a plan for some way to get people from Sunnyside to this new bridge, other than putting up flashing Pedestrian lights at 8th and Memorial (which would just make Memorial an even bigger cluster during rush hour)?

I'm guessing they will probably move the stoplight and crosswalk one block west from 7th street to 8th street. Not helping traffic much, but not adding another light either.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Table 5

What I am against is all the typical "my kid could've done that!" or the "let's give it to a high school student to design" crap that you hear when something like this comes up. Belittling a field of study that people have no real understanding of is what I get angry about.

I realize we're treading on your personal territory, but come on. Is what you're saying is the trained professional designers should have a monopoly on ideas on how a bridge (etc) should look, and everyone else should stay out of it?

Kids are pretty imaginative. Are they going to come up with a perfectly workable design? Of course not... but they could generate ideas that a true professional would take and run with. Where's the harm in that? Too much pride?

[getbak]

Originally Posted by V

Aren't there traffic signals at 7th?

I don't drive Memorial enough to know, but looking at Google Maps, there appears to be a crosswalk at 7th. I'd assume it's controlled by pedestrian lights.

Right now, because there isn't a convenient way across the river anywhere near there, I can't imagine that it's very heavily used. If this new bridge is going to get the kind of traffic that justifies its construction, presumably, there will be a similar increase in the number of people who want to cross Memorial in that area too.

Having nothing more than a surface crossing between the pathway and the north side of Memorial seems pretty stupid and potentially dangerous to me.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by calculoso

Is what you're saying is the trained professional designers should have a monopoly on ideas on how a bridge (etc) should look, and everyone else should stay out of it?

Nope, never said. Although having an idea and being able to execute it are two different things. My dad comes up with great inventions in his head every day, doesn't mean that he knows how to make them happen (or if they are realistic to begin with).

There is something to be said for leaving tasks to the professionals who actually have some training (an architect does what, 4-6 years of school before he can even build anything?). I don't perform surgery just because I watched ER a couple of times. I can try, sure, but what are the chances I'll be anywhere as good as the guy who actually knows what he's doing?

Originally Posted by calculoso

Kids are pretty imaginative. Are they going to come up with a perfectly workable design? Of course not... but they could generate ideas that a true professional would take and run with. Where's the harm in that? Too much pride?

Sure, they are, but why waste time and money as a City going to some random and unpredictable source for inspiration, when you can just go to an architect...someone who is supposed to have the know-how and creative tendencies right from the start. Let him worry about idea generation.

Btw, Im not an architect either. I can make nice doodles in my sketch book, but I know better then to try and pretend they are better than what an architect can do.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by calculoso

I realize we're treading on your personal territory, but come on. Is what you're saying is the trained professional designers should have a monopoly on ideas on how a bridge (etc) should look, and everyone else should stay out of it?

Kids are pretty imaginative. Are they going to come up with a perfectly workable design? Of course not... but they could generate ideas that a true professional would take and run with. Where's the harm in that? Too much pride?

I think this is exactly where common architecture comes from, and exactly why it is common - i.e. lets design what tit will look like, then figure out exactly how everything is going to work. Considering the details that must go into most buildings, you have to comprimise on something.

Good architecture has to take in HOW it will work into the shape/general design itself, or else things have to be tacked on at the end.

Even on a bridge like this, you have to incorporate into the look of the structure:

1. How it holds itself up
2. Wher the lighting can go
3. Where the wiring for the lighting can go
4. Where stormwater drains to (it doesn't drain straight into the river, BTW)
5. How the bridge can be maintained - from all sides, including the underside.
6. All of the systems have to be able to be maintained and repaired easily, but yet still resistant to damage from users of the bridge.

People who don't understand what all needs to go into a bridge are going to have a hard time coming up with a spectacular design that accomodates all of those things. Saying that Children could come up with the design is absurd. Whatever they would come up with would have to be modified so much to make it work that it would have been a pointless exercise.

[V]

Originally Posted by getbak

I don't drive Memorial enough to know, but looking at Google Maps, there appears to be a crosswalk at 7th. I'd assume it's controlled by pedestrian lights.

Right now, because there isn't a convenient way across the river anywhere near there, I can't imagine that it's very heavily used. If this new bridge is going to get the kind of traffic that justifies its construction, presumably, there will be a similar increase in the number of people who want to cross Memorial in that area too.

Having nothing more than a surface crossing between the pathway and the north side of Memorial seems pretty stupid and potentially dangerous to me.

It's a full-fledged traffic signal. I don't see what's dangerous about that.

And to the other guy, there's no chance the signals move. Not a prayer. The lighting along the Landscape of Memory would have to be changed. They paid a pretty penny for that to go in, and I highly doubt the City will be looking at paying the money required to change it.

Speaking of real reasons to complain about City spending, I give you Exhibit A: The Landscape of Memory.

[BlackArcher101]

I don't get this high school stuff. How come this applies to artchitecture but no other profession? Last I checked high school students are good at doing high school type jobs, not ones of professionals. Leave the high schoolers to design logos and the such, not something as complicated as a bridge. Frankly I don't even know what the purpose of that argument is. Taking a crappy design and trying to make it work after the fact will always cost more than making it work from the beginning.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

I don't get this high school stuff. How come this applies to artchitecture but no other profession? Last I checked high school students are good at doing high school type jobs, not ones of professionals. Leave the high schoolers to design logos and the such, not something as complicated as a bridge. Frankly I don't even know what the purpose of that argument is.

take that back.

[BlackArcher101]

Originally Posted by Table 5

take that back.

Take what back?

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

Take what back?

He's a logo designer...

[Muta]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

I don't get this high school stuff. How come this applies to artchitecture but no other profession? Last I checked high school students are good at doing high school type jobs, not ones of professionals. Leave the high schoolers to design logos and the such, not something as complicated as a bridge. Frankly I don't even know what the purpose of that argument is. Taking a crappy design and trying to make it work after the fact will always cost more than making it work from the beginning.

Agreed. I'm not about to walk into Ferrari's head office and tell them how to design a car, just because my opinion counts and I could buy their product one day. That's such a simplistic view. I have no understanding of how cars are specifically designed (let alone Ferraris), the details behind it, all the electrical work, etc. No clue. I'll leave that to the professionals... you know, Ferrari.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

I
Saying that Children could come up with the design is absurd. Whatever they would come up with would have to be modified so much to make it work that it would have been a pointless exercise.

Do you seriously think that anyone is advocating having them try to come down with a fully-fledged, ready for building, design? If so, you're totally missing the point.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Muta

Agreed. I'm not about to walk into Ferrari's head office and tell them how to design a car, just because my opinion counts and I could buy their product one day. That's such a simplistic view. I have no understanding of how cars are specifically designed (let alone Ferraris), the details behind it, all the electrical work, etc. No clue. I'll leave that to the professionals... you know, Ferrari.

And yet, if you doodle a great looking outside of the car, or the look of the dash, they'd probably be grateful.