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View Poll Results: Where will the Flames finish in the overall standings in the 24/25 season?
32 6 1.99%
31 4 1.32%
30 50 16.56%
29 52 17.22%
28 58 19.21%
27 42 13.91%
26 25 8.28%
25 20 6.62%
24 6 1.99%
23rd or better 39 12.91%
Voters: 302. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-09-2024, 11:26 AM   #521
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All I know is if this team is remotely competitive there is going to be a lot of negativity thrown at them for trying to win on here.
People got upset and Conroy for wins last year. The players a competitive they wont just lose.

The key is to surround the team with competitive players, but with stone hands.

I just don't see us winning much, being competitive? Yes

Or we may the Gully season when the team looked like they jus went for a public skate, and we ended up with Tkachuk.
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Old 07-09-2024, 01:01 PM   #522
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yeah, i forget, what were the positions pre and post tdl last season? They went on a real slide when the pending ufas were traded. This season there are 7 pending ufas, though none as sought after as hanifin/tanev/lindholm/zadorov/toffoli - the biggest trade bait will be kuzmenko and mantha and maybe vladar depending on their seasons. But they could also make moves with guys who are a year away like andersson, backlund, bean, pospisil, miromanov, etc. And i sippose a team might even be interested in kadri with $7m no longer being as big a cap hit.

It's pretty possible that in 2 years the only current vets still around will be huberdeau, weegar and sharky.

Do not trade Pospisil. He’s a monster with decent hands. I want our 4th line to be feared throughout the league with Pospisil & Lomberg & possibly Klapka.
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Old 07-09-2024, 01:51 PM   #523
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Do not trade Pospisil. He’s a monster with decent hands. I want our 4th line to be feared throughout the league with Pospisil & Lomberg & possibly Klapka.
He's a guy who will be expiring in a couple years, and will be 26 then, and is a bottom six player for any decent team. You can't make a guy like that untouchable. It's quite possible he maxes out at a .3 PPG guy. Plus he's got a big concussion issue, and you may need to trade high on a guy like that (see Ferland).
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Old 07-09-2024, 02:14 PM   #524
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I think the Flames goal moving into this off season was not to make the worst team in the NHL.

It was to turn over the roster and prepare the foundation for a good team in 2 years time.

I am fine if we miss out on a top 5 pick because the team plays well at points of the season. As long as they prioritize youth, and accumulating picks ( which they have been in all instances).
Honestly, when isn't it the goal of a rebuilding team to be better, or at least have the foundation to be better, in 2 years. Rebuilds don't always work out that way, but no team wants to be perpetually bad.

The team traded Markstrom and has the lowest cap in the league. How can you not argue that the goal isn't to get a high draft pick next year. I think Conroy has done a brilliant job of hopefully speeding up the rebuild by acquiring young players with talent, and not just picks. He's also retained the vets with the most leadership/veteran presence. Will his plan work? Who knows.

I really hope the Flames do turn it around in two years. It'd be amazing for the Flames to pick up a blue chip centre prospect in the 2025 draft. Hopefully Parekh turns into that legit offensive d-man. We also need Wolf to become a starter. So many things have to go right to make the turn around in 2 years. I think Conroy has done just about the best job he could have to make that happen, but it's still far from certain.
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Old 07-09-2024, 03:13 PM   #525
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Conroy has to strike a balance of rebuilding and keeping a competitive culture. I think he’s doing that. We have tons of draft picks now, and he’s committing to a Wolf / Vladar combo for next year. You can’t trade the entire team in 1 off season and you need some good veterans to help the young guys grow. I think fans underestimate the importance of that.
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Old 07-09-2024, 03:24 PM   #526
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He's a guy who will be expiring in a couple years, and will be 26 then, and is a bottom six player for any decent team. You can't make a guy like that untouchable. It's quite possible he maxes out at a .3 PPG guy. Plus he's got a big concussion issue, and you may need to trade high on a guy like that (see Ferland).

Fair points but I think his ceiling is higher. Dude showed up at the Worlds.
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Old 07-09-2024, 03:40 PM   #527
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Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin View Post
Conroy has to strike a balance of rebuilding and keeping a competitive culture. I think he’s doing that. We have tons of draft picks now, and he’s committing to a Wolf / Vladar combo for next year. You can’t trade the entire team in 1 off season and you need some good veterans to help the young guys grow. I think fans underestimate the importance of that.
I think fans overestimate the importance of that.

You need top talent more than you need veteran leadership hanging around providing intangibles, and that veteran leadership could end up preventing you from acquiring the top talent you need to win.

You need to draft a Sasha Barkov/Nathan MacKinnon far more than you need a random smattering of veterans to "help the young guys grow", and that random smattering of veterans may very well prevent you from drafting a Sasha Barkov/Nathan MacKinnon.

It's really easy to find veteran groups like what the Flames currently have today. They're available every off-season.

Step 1: Draft the elite, foundational talent
Step 2: Find the right veterans to to help them grow

You can't do that out of sequence, because if you do Step 2 before Step 1, you'll never accomplish Step 1.
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Old 07-09-2024, 03:55 PM   #528
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I think fans overestimate the importance of that.

You need top talent more than you need veteran leadership hanging around providing intangibles, and that veteran leadership could end up preventing you from acquiring the top talent you need to win.

You need to draft a Sasha Barkov/Nathan MacKinnon far more than you need a random smattering of veterans to "help the young guys grow", and that random smattering of veterans may very well prevent you from drafting a Sasha Barkov/Nathan MacKinnon.

It's really easy to find veteran groups like what the Flames currently have today. They're available every off-season.

Step 1: Draft the elite, foundational talent
Step 2: Find the right veterans to to help them grow

You can't do that out of sequence, because if you do Step 2 before Step 1, you'll never accomplish Step 1.
Love Backlund, Coleman, Weegar, and Kadri, but those guys are not dragging this team out of the gutter. Conroy has done a great job of tearing this team down to the point it should absolutely suck next year. Goalies alone should ensure that. I also don't think it is that easy to find a Backlund or a Kadri. It took Backlund almost a decade of playing in the Flames system before he became a Selke worthy two way centre.

When you have a team of top talent that doesn't have vets to show them how to play, especially a solid defensive game, you end up being the Buffalo Sabres or pre-McDavid Oilers. A bunch of wasted top end draft picks floundering around aimlessly.
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Old 07-09-2024, 04:02 PM   #529
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All I know is if this team is remotely competitive there is going to be a lot of negativity thrown at them for trying to win on here.
Could you imagine if they finish 9th in the West and just miss the playoffs for the upteenth time?
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Old 07-09-2024, 04:07 PM   #530
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Could you imagine if they finish 9th in the West and just miss the playoffs for the upteenth time?
Most Flames thing ever. With all the pressure off they win just enough games to not get good draft picks.

Even in the "Young Guns" era, the Flames only had two #6 picks, which they blew on Rico Fata and Daniel Tkaczuk. The rest of the picks were all in the 9-14 range.
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Old 07-09-2024, 04:10 PM   #531
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It's really easy to find veteran groups like what the Flames currently have today. They're available every off-season.
It’s hard to get them in trades because of NTCs. And if you sign them as UFAs, they don’t come cheap (see Brouwer, Troy).
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Old 07-09-2024, 04:31 PM   #532
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All I know is if this team is remotely competitive there is going to be a lot of negativity thrown at them for trying to win on here.
This team probably looks like some version of

Zary Kadri Kuzmenko
Huberdeau Sharangovich Mantha
Coleman Backlund Coronato
Lomberg. Rooney. Pospisil
Pelletier Hunt

Miromanov. Weegar
Bahl Andersson
Bean Pachal

That team probably has a low probability of being competitive. I like Bahl and I like Miromanov (think both have legit upside) but neither of them are in the top 4 of any competitive team. The backend legit could be one of the bottom 5 in the league. The forwards at best are around 22nd or 23rd in the league. For the Flames to be anywhere close to competitive they need

1) Wolf to be pretty close to as good as Markstrom was in the first 60 games of last year
2) Kuzmenko to score at around a 80-90 point pace.
3) Two dmen who most people do not expect to be top 100-120 dmen in the league to play like top 100-120 dmen in the league.
4) Weegar and Andersson to have 45-50 point seasons each
5) Coronato to have a significant uplift to probably 35-40 points
6) Coleman to not have a big drop off from last season.
7) Kadri to be at least a 65 point guy again
8) No real bad sophomore slumps by Zary and Pospisil.
9) Huberdeau to be not insigificantly better than the first two seasons.
10) Sharangovich to have at least as good of a season as last season.

I think a lot of those could happen (2, 5, 7, 10 being the most likely imo with 4 also having a decent chance of occurring) but I highly doubt more than 7 of them do happen and some of those things will not only not happen but will very obviously not happen.
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Old 07-09-2024, 04:39 PM   #533
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All depends on the goaltending. An improved team in my opinion so it will depend how the goaltending holds up. I think Vladar will be great and Wolf….. not so much but that’s just my unscientific opinion lol.
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Old 07-09-2024, 04:51 PM   #534
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All depends on the goaltending. An improved team in my opinion so it will depend how the goaltending holds up. I think Vladar will be great and Wolf….. not so much but that’s just my unscientific opinion lol.
There is no world where that defence is better than one that contained Hanifin, Tanev and Zadorov.

Maybe one can make the argument that the forwards are marginally better but the defence is definitely worse.
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Old 07-09-2024, 04:59 PM   #535
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Again, chemistry is a weird thing. The Flyers just missed out of the playoffs with a roster whose tops three scorers had 68, 53, and 50 points, and a starting goaltender who had an .890 SV%.

The Flames’ late-season swoon happened when the team was selling off half its roster one by one. Not hard to see how demoralizing and disruptive that would be. The roster next season is going to have a lot of players with something to prove.
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Old 07-10-2024, 02:41 PM   #536
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Fair points but I think his ceiling is higher. Dude showed up at the Worlds.
Counterargument: Mangiapane.
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Old 07-10-2024, 03:47 PM   #537
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Originally Posted by ComixZone View Post
I think fans overestimate the importance of that.

You need top talent more than you need veteran leadership hanging around providing intangibles, and that veteran leadership could end up preventing you from acquiring the top talent you need to win.

You need to draft a Sasha Barkov/Nathan MacKinnon far more than you need a random smattering of veterans to "help the young guys grow", and that random smattering of veterans may very well prevent you from drafting a Sasha Barkov/Nathan MacKinnon.

It's really easy to find veteran groups like what the Flames currently have today. They're available every off-season.

Step 1: Draft the elite, foundational talent
Step 2: Find the right veterans to to help them grow

You can't do that out of sequence, because if you do Step 2 before Step 1, you'll never accomplish Step 1.
Yeah I agree with this sentiment too, just look at what Chicago did once they drafted Bedard. They brought in 36 year old Nick Foligno and by all accounts it was a huge success, and Foligno was brand new to the organization and rode shotgun with Bedard all year.

The most important thing for the Flames as it stands right now IMO is to keep acquiring the draft capital needed to add some top-end talent through the draft and THEN look at how best to surround them. And the best currency to acquire those picks IMO is veterans who can help playoff teams leading up to or at the deadline.

This is the one argument on 960 that I push back on, keeping guys like Coleman and Kadri because they "play the right way" when you're rebuilding does make sense yes, but you also have to consider whether or not Coleman will ever have more value than he does right now after scoring 30 goals, and whether or not Kadri will follow up last seasons point totals.

Coleman especially for me.. he's been fantastic as a Flame but he's built to be on a playoff team and IMO that winger spot could be better used on a young player who needs the minutes to develop.

If there's good offers out there I would hope that Conroy will pull the trigger and then if you need to take on a bad contract or take a guy of waivers to provide veteran leadership, then look at doing something like that.

All that being said, Conroy moved out 6? veterans last season, and all were UFA's which was the priority. I love what he's done for the rebuild so far and just want to see that continue this season. If the right deal presents itself over the next 1-2 years for Coleman, Kadri, Andersson, or even Backlund I hope we go for it, and keep this thing moving forward.

Ironic that the Flames are shaping up to have a (likely) rough season standings-wise and yet I'm more excited for this upcoming season than I have been in years. Can't wait to see the kids get opportunities, and following the 2025 draft will be super exciting especially with even more deadline trade chips to dangle in front of playoff bound teams:

- Mantha
- Kuzmenko
- Andersson?
- Lomberg?
- Coleman?
- Kadri?
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Old 07-10-2024, 03:50 PM   #538
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When you compare and contrast the rosters of the teams that might be below the flames:

Ducks
Black hawks
Blue jackets
Sharks


I don't think you can say that the Flames roster is significantly better then any of them.

Alot of them made some pretty significant additions this off season.

Goalies: They all have more experienced goal tending then us.

Defence: depends of the team but a bit of a wash. The flames have 2 legit top 4 defenders in Weegar and Rasmus and then a bunch of wildcards. Pretty similar to how these teams are setup. Albeit Weegar and Rasmus are probably two of the better defence out of these bottom 5 teams.

Forwards: I think the flames have the deepest forward group, but some of these teams made big additions and don't look too bad. The 4 other teams have NHL ready blue chip prospects thay could go off at any time. I don't think there's much separation here.


I don't think it's crazy that the Flames could finish bottom 3.
I also don't think it's crazy that the team could finish outside of the bottom 10.

Will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
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Old 07-10-2024, 04:05 PM   #539
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Yeah I agree with this sentiment too, just look at what Chicago did once they drafted Bedard. They brought in 36 year old Nick Foligno and by all accounts it was a huge success, and Foligno was brand new to the organization and rode shotgun with Bedard all year.

The most important thing for the Flames as it stands right now IMO is to keep acquiring the draft capital needed to add some top-end talent through the draft and THEN look at how best to surround them. And the best currency to acquire those picks IMO is veterans who can help playoff teams leading up to or at the deadline.

This is the one argument on 960 that I push back on, keeping guys like Coleman and Kadri because they "play the right way" when you're rebuilding does make sense yes, but you also have to consider whether or not Coleman will ever have more value than he does right now after scoring 30 goals, and whether or not Kadri will follow up last seasons point totals.

Coleman especially for me.. he's been fantastic as a Flame but he's built to be on a playoff team and IMO that winger spot could be better used on a young player who needs the minutes to develop.

If there's good offers out there I would hope that Conroy will pull the trigger and then if you need to take on a bad contract or take a guy of waivers to provide veteran leadership, then look at doing something like that.

All that being said, Conroy moved out 6? veterans last season, and all were UFA's which was the priority. I love what he's done for the rebuild so far and just want to see that continue this season. If the right deal presents itself over the next 1-2 years for Coleman, Kadri, Andersson, or even Backlund I hope we go for it, and keep this thing moving forward.

Ironic that the Flames are shaping up to have a (likely) rough season standings-wise and yet I'm more excited for this upcoming season than I have been in years. Can't wait to see the kids get opportunities, and following the 2025 draft will be super exciting especially with even more deadline trade chips to dangle in front of playoff bound teams:

- Mantha
- Kuzmenko
- Andersson?
- Lomberg?
- Coleman?
- Kadri?

If they get a good offer on anyone, then I suspect that Conroy would pull the trigger or if there is a NMC ask the player. I don't think that there is a resistance to trade any of the players.


It's more of a view that the other teams need to make an offer that is more valuable than the Flames keeping these players -- until that player is approaching the end of their contract or the player wants out at which point Conroy will take the best offer.
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Old 07-10-2024, 04:19 PM   #540
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We aren’t even close to bottoming out yet. There’s still lots of ripping apart yet to be done.
Soon enough we will start hearing vets asking for trades. We have a long way to go yet.
If this is the path we are taking, It’s important that we are bad while trying to win.
And
The seats need to be at least 70% full too
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