2024 Off-season trade rumours and speculation thread

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by BigThief

They don't need Mercer either, this team is years away from competing and I hope we're able to draft and develop similar or greater talents along the waay.

Zary has one less point than Holtz. In 40 fewer games.

Mercer is a centre (area of need). Last year he scored almost 30 goals and was over half a point per game every season.

[dgibb10]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Zary has one less point than Holtz. In 40 fewer games.

Mercer is a centre (area of need). Last year he scored almost 30 goals and was over half a point per game every season.

Because Zary was in the AHL. Giving credit to Zary for not playing an NHL game until age 22 in career stats lmao

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dgibb10

Because Zary was in the AHL. Giving credit to Zary for not playing an NHL game until age 22 in career stats lmao

Dude, he’s caught Holtz in career points. Maybe the Flames developed him better. Maybe Holtz should have more AHL time.

You have bad arguments.

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Zary has one less point than Holtz. In 40 fewer games.

Mercer is a centre (area of need). Last year he scored almost 30 goals and was over half a point per game every season.

Right now Mercer has two less points than Zary in 15 more games. Mercer has been playing wing as of late.
When did he last play down the middle?

[SuperMatt18]

Are we sure Mercer is a Center at the NHL level...it's possible but he hasn't played much Center for NJ.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by BigThief

Right now Mercer has two less points than Zary in 15 more games. Mercer has been playing wing as of late.
When did he last play down the middle?

When did Lindholm play centre in Carolina? Mercer is a centre from his background. Plenty of centres start at wing. Holtz is a pure winger.

[dgibb10]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Dude, he’s caught Holtz in career points. Maybe the Flames developed him better. Maybe Holtz should have more AHL time.

You have bad arguments.

I didn't say Holtz was better than Zary. I said using NHL career stats heavily weighed down by Holtz numbers at an age where Zary wasn't NHL ready is incredibly disingenuous.

Holtz could have stayed in the AHL and torn it up further, wasn't much point. Getting experience with NHL speed and working 1 on 1 with Brunette was more important.

Holtz in 21-22 was a PPG, half a goal per game player at the AHL level already. Zary was at half that.

If you want to be genuine, you'd go into how Zary has much better defensive results and is a more polished overall player right now.

In terms of scoring they're quite similar.

655 minutes, 12 goals 10 assists for Holtz 5v5
641 minutes, 11 goals 12 assists for Zary 5v5

Both have scoring that may suggest regression in terms of shooting% and goals.

However, Holtz has always been a sniper with his best asset being his truly elite shot. Zary doesn't have that reputation and pedigree as a sniper, so his 18% shooting% feels somewhat more questionable, although we'll have to wait and see. and 11 goals on 6.6 xGoals. Compared to Holtz who's 12.6% and 12 goals on 8.7 xGoals 5v5.

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

When did Lindholm play centre in Carolina? Mercer is a centre from his background. Plenty of centres start at wing. Holtz is a pure winger.

You didn't answer the question.

[GioforPM]

^

Imagine arguing that a guy’s scoring pace should be discounted because he got to the NHL later. Worst argument ever

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by BigThief

You didn't answer the question.

I don’t know when Mercer last played centre. I do know he was a regular centre in junior. Unlike the people he’s being compared with. So he will likely become a centre in a team not loaded down the middle.

[dgibb10]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

^

Imagine arguing that a guy’s scoring pace should be discounted because he got to the NHL later. Worst argument ever

Again, not what I said.

Holtz being in the NHL earlier shouldn't be held against him in a comparison. They are both 22 year olds with similar scoring production at the NHL level this year. Zary has been much better defensively.

in 21-22: Holtz PPG and 0.5 GPG in the AHL, Zary 0.5 PPG and 0.25 GPG in the AHL. Holtz got his 9 games in the NHL. This is not a year favouring Zary

22-23: Holtz 0.4 GPG, 0.8 PPG in the AHL (very small sample size), Zary 0.8 ppg, 0.3 GPG. Holtz worked mostly with Andrew Brunette at the NHL level, and got some games in on line 4. This is not a year favouring Zary

23-24, Zary has been better than Holtz.

If you're gonna make your point, make a good one.

Zary has been a fair bit better than Holtz this year, specifically in terms of 2 way hockey and defensive play. He was not last year, and certainly wasn't in 21-22.

Using career numbers is being disingenuous.

[PaperBagger'14]

Holtz has an elite shot…and 13 goals. Trash.

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

^

Imagine arguing that a guy’s scoring pace should be discounted because he got to the NHL later. Worst argument ever

No one is doing that. When did he last play center consistently in the NHL?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by BigThief

No one is doing that. When did he last play center consistently in the NHL?

The NJ troll is doing exactly that. And I already answered your question. Are you also trolling?

[GioforPM]

Using career numbers for identical point totals is disingenuous? Now I’ve heard everything.

[dgibb10]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Using career numbers for identical point totals is disingenuous? Now I’ve heard everything.

Again. Bad NHL production is better than being in the AHL. If Holtz stayed in the AHL and keep scoring half a goal a game and a PPG (he would have easily, probably even more) would you have a higher view of him?

You are devaluing Holtz for being in the NHL at a younger age. Ridiculous.

[dgibb10]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Holtz has an elite shot…and 13 goals. Trash.

14 goals*

Also 36 consecutive saves for Jake Allen btw

[dgibb10]

Originally Posted by BigThief

No one is doing that. When did he last play center consistently in the NHL?

About as often as Yegor Sharangovich did. But Mercer won't be traded to calgary so I wouldn't spend time worrying if he can play center.

Also I enjoy the "NJD are idiots for trading young potential C on a down year away for a veteran to win now" and also "NJD are idiots for NOT trading young potential C on a down year (this one is much younger and better) for a veteran to win now"

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by dgibb10

14 goals*

Also 36 consecutive saves for Jake Allen btw

How elite is 14 goals? Like on your unbiased scale of eliteness do you think he is comparable to Gretzky? Maybe a more elite Ovechkin? If Auston Matthews had another gear he could one day become Alexander Holtz?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dgibb10

Again. Bad NHL production is better than being in the AHL. If Holtz stayed in the AHL and keep scoring half a goal a game and a PPG (he would have easily, probably even more) would you have a higher view of him?

You are devaluing Holtz for being in the NHL at a younger age. Ridiculous.

Holtz has 31 points in 94 games. Zary has 29 in 50. That should be the end of the argument.

Somehow your argument is that Holtz would have done way better except he was in the NHL sooner. Fail.