2023/2024 English Premier League Thread

[Senator Clay Davis]

As long as players bet on their own teams to win I don't even necessarily have a problem with that. Pretty sure boxers and MMA fighters are allowed to do that. If anything, it'd be kinda good? Rather than just showing up for the guaranteed paycheck they'd actually have a stake in winning, in theory it would make them more motivated. It would be betting something very specific that could be problematic (i.e. betting on a score specific win like a 3-1 win so they take a blatant penalty to ensure the other team scores). But just straight betting on their own team to win? I don't see it as a major problem. Obviously betting anything else is, however.

But gambling will only get worse, especially in North America where it's still relatively new on a wide scale. Sports leagues are either close to the apex, or post-apex, in terms of fan interest. Gambling, fantasy sports, these are the last avenues to drive further interest/growth. Governments aren't going to legislate it away either cause they need the tax money. I know the PL has the "restriction" coming soon for gambling sponsors as the main kit sponsor, but it tells you all you need to know that all they've done is pushed it to the shoulder patch. Just too much money there.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Matty81

So, Tonali is facing a 3 year ban for gambling on games, which he's currently hoping to have halved in a plea bargain, yet the premier league is letting him play against Palace this weekend in the interim and Eddie Howe of course being the morally ambiguous loser that he is, is of course gonna start him. I don't know which one is worse between this one and Partey/Arsenal continuing to play while he's out on bail for a rape charge, yeah actually its still Arsenal but feels like the Premier league is turning into the Mos Eisley of professional sports leagues lately

Originally Posted by Matty81

Yeah I wasn't really talking about which crime was worse obviously. Partey scenario is different because he hasn't been publicly named or charged even though everyone seems to know its him who is accused. And i have no idea how likely a conviction is or what the evidence looks like which presumably club does. Whereas tonelli pretty clearly committed the offence and is about to be banned for a long time. Both clubs have acted poorly imo but I do think arsenal is going to really wear it if partey ends up being convicted.

There's a degree of hypocrisy for sure but i understand you can't bet on football leagues in your own country involving teams you could potentially play in league or cup. It's a slippery slope nevermind most of these guys are friends with a player or two on most teams in the league.

I'd rather just see the gambling ads and sponsorships gone and hope that's coming

So was Partay charged or not charged? You wrote both.

Even as an Arsenal fan, I have no idea about this except what you guys write on CP. There's no news on it; I thought all charges were dropped?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

So was Partay charged or not charged? You wrote both.

Even as an Arsenal fan, I have no idea about this except what you guys write on CP. There's no news on it; I thought all charges were dropped?

I'm not sure whether he was charged or what the scenario is, but the accusations were very public. I just find it weird that any company would keep putting an employee out there in this situation. I can understand them not being able to just flat-out stop paying the guy or walking away, but you'd think that in 99% of cases this would be a suspension with pay kind of scenario. Same thing has happened with United though, and obviously professional sports is just different.

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

So was Partay charged or not charged? You wrote both.

Even as an Arsenal fan, I have no idea about this except what you guys write on CP. There's no news on it; I thought all charges were dropped?

This is all from twitter and a few news reports from second rate sites, none of the big outlets have touched it as his name hasn't been made public as the accused by authorities. From what I can understand he's been arrested and released on bail. His bail has been extended 3 times as the investigation continues which seems wild given first accusation was in 2021. During the initial investigation a second woman then came forward with accusations she was also raped by him twice. From what is online only one of those rape charges is still being investigated as the second one happened outside UK jurisdiction. It's all been very under the radar compared to, for example, what happened with greenwood.

https://thrillng.com/latest-update-partey-rape-case/

Imagine Arsenal has much more info and are playing him with belief he is innocent? But the investigation staying open this long suggests there is something to it. If he does get convicted of the crime, man that is going to be a baaaad look. Most employers would suspend him with pay while it plays out but the Prem is just win at all costs lately.

Anyway back to Tonelli it seems like yes he bet on his own games, has admitted it and will be gone for a while, it's crazy that Newcastle are allowed to trot him out this weekend especially if he actually impacts the game, arguments about whether gambling for players should be legal or not aside.... right now it's a clear rule with significant penalties and he apparently made fake online IDs to bet on his own games. I don't understand the delay on the premier league end... I don't think Palace will be in the relegation mix but would think if he scores in the game and it costs palace points that impact something like that they're opening themselves up to a lawsuit down the road.

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

As long as players bet on their own teams to win I don't even necessarily have a problem with that. Pretty sure boxers and MMA fighters are allowed to do that. If anything, it'd be kinda good? Rather than just showing up for the guaranteed paycheck they'd actually have a stake in winning, in theory it would make them more motivated. It would be betting something very specific that could be problematic (i.e. betting on a score specific win like a 3-1 win so they take a blatant penalty to ensure the other team scores). But just straight betting on their own team to win? I don't see it as a major problem. Obviously betting anything else is, however.

It might seem like it would motivate them, but the reason it's been banned isn't the same as the reason they can't bet against their own team.... they have insider information about the team and the match that everyone else doesn't have, they know who is healthy and have the lineup before the bookmakers do and can adjust their odds. And then there's no way to restrict them from only betting on a win, every gambling site has spreads and over unders that could impact how they perform on the field. I think it's a non-starter to be honest it's way too much of a slippery slope.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Matty81

It might seem like it would motivate them, but the reason it's been banned isn't the same as the reason they can't bet against their own team.... they have insider information about the team and the match that everyone else doesn't have, they know who is healthy and have the lineup before the bookmakers do and can adjust their odds. And then there's no way to restrict them from only betting on a win, every gambling site has spreads and over unders that could impact how they perform on the field. I think it's a non-starter to be honest it's way too much of a slippery slope.

Should make insider trading laws for betting.

Bets on own team have to be disclosed to the league - and fans!

[Locke]

This just seems so stupid. I'm not getting into all of it, but if you're going to bet on your own games why not just give a buddy the money and make him place the bet or something equally as un-clever?

Or just train harder, get better at your craft and earn more per week...seriously?

[Slava]

I just think that if you're a professional, use some common sense and don't gamble on your sport. I imagine that is somewhat tough, but it's just part of the gig. There was an interview with Ange Postecoglou earlier this summer where he was saying that he had to stop playing fantasy with his buddies. I can see that kind of sucks, but at the same time...you now a PL manager. Obviously you've got to forgo things like that.

At the same time, players like Ivan Toney get hammered with long bans when the club has a "Hollywood Bets" shirt sponsor. It's kind of ludicrous and a double standard.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Slava

I just think that if you're a professional, use some common sense and don't gamble on your sport. I imagine that is somewhat tough, but it's just part of the gig. There was an interview with Ange Postecoglou earlier this summer where he was saying that he had to stop playing fantasy with his buddies. I can see that kind of sucks, but at the same time...you now a PL manager. Obviously you've got to forgo things like that.

At the same time, players like Ivan Toney get hammered with long bans when the club has a "Hollywood Bets" shirt sponsor. It's kind of ludicrous and a double standard.

No. Its not!

A player in the league knows more than anyone else. He's probably friends with players in half the league.

"So and so is playing with a tight hamstring, such and such has been fighting with his wife, this guy has a new baby and hasnt slept in weeks..."

These are the margins.

So no...its not a fair bet.

You want to gamble? Gamble on anything else. Literally anything. Horse racing, pie-eating, Death Pools, whatever. Just not your own sport.

[MegaErtz]

The Italian papers are reporting that Tonali has admitted to betting on AC Milan senior matches while he was a member of the AC Milan senior squad. He claims he didn't play in any of the matches he bet on.

Anything less than a lifetime suspension from the sport will be too light a punishment in my opinion. I'm uncomfortable with teams having so many gambling sponsors, but that doesn't justify this type of criminal conduct.

[SuperMatt18]

Yeah it's one thing to bet on other games (don't really have an issue with that if you're going to heavily promote sports gambling), but cross the line once you bet on your own team.

Will be interesting to see if Newcastle try to claw back any of that transfer fee...

[Senator Clay Davis]

Now I'm not a manager, I just play one on an internet message board, but having Milner defending against Doku seems sub-optimal.

[Senator Clay Davis]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1715745199991742514

[d_phaneuf]

That wasnt an easy hit for rice

[Senator Clay Davis]

Horrible goalkeeping performance on both sides of this one.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Where did they find 7 minutes of added time?

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Where did they find 7 minutes of added time?

I thought 4 at most

Seems most game they just start at 5 and add if anything happened now

Has to be directive from the league

[Barnet Flame]

It wasn’t a goalkeeping clinic today.

It is rare you get such a pointless signing as Raya, but here we are.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by d_phaneuf

I thought 4 at most

Seems most game they just start at 5 and add if anything happened now

Has to be directive from the league

Yeah for sure. If you wanna add 30 seconds for each goal that gets us to 90 seconds, but there wasn't any noticeable time wasting and I can't recall any serious injury. I think maybe Jesus was down for a minute and that's about it. Like releasing the VAR audio I think for transparency it'd be nice to know how they come up with the added time.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Stolen (gifted) point today; Arsenal were as poor as they've been a while