BC Lags Behind Other Provinces in Life Satisfaction

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by blankall

Not sure this is correct:

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vanc...isis-epicentre

That article (either intentionally or unintentionally) distorts the numbers pretty heavily. What they don't mention is their percentages aren't of the entire population surveyed, but only of the portion of the homeless population not originally from Vancouver. So that 44% from the rest of Canada is 44% of the 45% of respondents who ever reported living outside of Vancouver. So that means that ~20% of respondents (44% of 45%) were from outside BC originally and a further ~14% were from within BC, but outside of the Lower Mainland.

But of course, that only means that at some point in their lives, they lived outside of Vancouver. So someone born in Ontario who moved to Vancouver as a teenager, and then became homeless in their 40s is going to show up as being from outside BC in that stat. If you look at place of residence prior to becoming homeless, over 80% list the City of Vancouver and a significant number of the remainder would have lived in the general region at the point they became homeless.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by opendoor

That article (either intentionally or unintentionally) distorts the numbers pretty heavily. What they don't mention is their percentages aren't of the entire population surveyed, but only of the portion of the homeless population not originally from Vancouver. So that 44% from the rest of Canada is 44% of the 45% of respondents who ever reported living outside of Vancouver. So that means that ~20% of respondents (44% of 45%) were from outside BC originally and a further ~14% were from within BC, but outside of the Lower Mainland.

But of course, that only means that at some point in their lives, they lived outside of Vancouver. So someone born in Ontario who moved to Vancouver as a teenager, and then became homeless in their 40s is going to show up as being from outside BC in that stat. If you look at place of residence prior to becoming homeless, over 80% list the City of Vancouver and a significant number of the remainder would have lived in the general region at the point they became homeless.

Yes, but how long had they been living in Vancouver? Vancouver proper is a relatively small city of under 700k, with the vast majority being very affluent. Very few homeless people are going to be truly homegrown. Certainly not 80%.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by blankall

Yes, but how long had they been living in Vancouver? Vancouver proper is a relatively small city of under 700k, with the vast majority being very affluent. Very few homeless people are going to be truly homegrown. Certainly not 80%.

There are a lot more people falling off the bottom end of the scale than you or I think.

[peter12]

https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2022/1...4%20per%20cent.

No idea how this holds up. None.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by peter12

There are a lot more people falling off the bottom end of the scale than you or I think.

I would still think it's a relatively small number of people born and raised in Vancouver who end up in the DTES. My guess is that a lot of the "locals", were relatively new arrivals who came for things like work. Then when the jobs fell apart and/or rent increased, they ended up on the streets.

It's pretty telling that only 16% were from an area of metro Vancouver out side of Vancouver proper, yet people outside of Vancouver proper compose about 75% of the population of metro Vancouver.

[jayswin]

^^^^^

But I would consider someone who came there for work that didn't work out in the end and forced the person onto the streets as a local homeless person. To me a homeless person from "somewhere else" is a person that was living on the streets in another city/province and decided they'd prefer to live on the streets of Vancouver and made their way there.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by jayswin

^^^^^

But I would consider someone who came there for work that didn't work out in the end and forced the person onto the streets as a local homeless person. To me a homeless person from "somewhere else" is a person that was living on the streets in another city/province and decided they'd prefer to live on the streets of Vancouver and made their way there.

Vancouver is by far the biggest city in Western Canada. It's going to attract all sorts of people from across Western Canada looking for opportunity, and many of these people will be from unstable backgrounds to begin with. I don't really see the major difference between someone, for example, one missed rent pay cheque away from homelessness and someone already homeless both moving from Alberta.

[JohnnyB]

The difference between one missed rent cheque from homelessness and someone who is already homeless seems very tangible and important imo.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by blankall

I would still think it's a relatively small number of people born and raised in Vancouver who end up in the DTES. My guess is that a lot of the "locals", were relatively new arrivals who came for things like work. Then when the jobs fell apart and/or rent increased, they ended up on the streets.

It's pretty telling that only 16% were from an area of metro Vancouver out side of Vancouver proper, yet people outside of Vancouver proper compose about 75% of the population of metro Vancouver.

It's important to remember how this data is collected. It's a voluntary survey among vulnerable people; it's not like they're going deep into these peoples' histories and verifying exactly which municipality they lived in.

So when the people surveyed are asked the questions (and these are the exact survey questions from the report) "How long have you lived in Vancouver" and "Where were you living before living in Vancouver", many of them are likely treating the City of Vancouver and Greater Vancouver as the same thing (as a lot of people do). So someone originally from North Vancouver, Burnaby, Richmond, or Surrey might just consider that "Vancouver" and answer that they're from Vancouver, even if they didn't originally live within the city boundaries.

But the fact remains, only 35% of respondents reported living outside of Metro Vancouver, and a good portion of that 35% would have had a residence in Vancouver before becoming homeless.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

The difference between one missed rent cheque from homelessness and someone who is already homeless seems very tangible and important imo.

Of course it is.

That being said, the people who actually end up homeless will have a propensity towards financial issues, drug dependency, mental health issues, etc...because many may end up in the largest city, which also happens to have the mildest weather. Whether they get there a few months before experiencing homelessness or not, doesn't seem all that material.

[FlamesAddiction]

Completely anecdotal, but a few years ago when I was still in my younger party days, I used to hang out downtown a lot and would often get into small talk with homeless people. Most of the time when I asked where they were from, it was a different province unless they were Indigenous, then they tend to be local or from BC. Unfortunately, Indigenous seemed to make up a disproportionate number of homeless considering the representation in the overall population.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by blankall

Of course it is.

That being said, the people who actually end up homeless will have a propensity towards financial issues, drug dependency, mental health issues, etc...because many may end up in the largest city, which also happens to have the mildest weather. Whether they get there a few months before experiencing homelessness or not, doesn't seem all that material.

This reads like you're assuming they were bound to become homeless one way or the other. Is that what you mean?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

This reads like you're assuming they were bound to become homeless one way or the other. Is that what you mean?

Not bound to. But there's certainly a group of people that are more predisposed to homelessness than others. They will naturally gravitate towards Vancouver, both before and in the event that they actually do become homeless.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by blankall

Not bound to. But there's certainly a group of people that are more predisposed to homelessness than others. They will naturally gravitate towards Vancouver, both before and in the event that they actually do become homeless.

The logic is as simple as it can get though. Speaking from experience. If I'm going to be homeless I'm going to try andmitigate the risk to myself by not being exposed to the rest of Canada's winters.

It's also why B.C hated Ralph Klein with a fiery passion. Sending all Alberta's homeless to Vancouver because of the climate.

[afc wimbledon]

I would say almost all of Vancouvers homeless are not 'from' Vancouver, where it gets difficult is how do you measure that? none of the native kids I have fostered were Musqueam or Squamish nation, the only native bands in Vancouver, most were from Prairie bands, predominantly Cree/Ojibwe, that said almost all had lived all their lives in the Lower Mainland, they were brought here by their parents or where born here, so they are technically locals.

I despair of the homeless issue because neither side of the argument really want to actually do the things that are needed, the problem right now is we have a wholly permissive administration that doesn't want to be seen being nasty to the homeless, this ironically means they are creating the conditions that are killing thousands

[Galakanokis]

Originally Posted by peter12

https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2022/1...4%20per%20cent.

No idea how this holds up. None.

We've hired three kids over the last few months and they are making decent wages for being in their early 20's, maybe $45K-$50K. But one guy pays $2200 for an apartment!. There's nothing left. He mooches as much free food and drink from work that he can otherwise lives on ichiban noodles and Kraft dinner. None of them have a social life. They have no idea what it means to sit in a pub for hours after work with your friends and talk #### and play pool. What kind of life is that. Work and video games because they can't afford to go out.

In a neighborhood in north van I think someone is renting a camper van parked in a driveway for $2K a month. That is your living space. They can use the washroom and laundry inside but everything else is in the van. $2K.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by blankall

Not bound to. But there's certainly a group of people that are more predisposed to homelessness than others. They will naturally gravitate towards Vancouver, both before and in the event that they actually do become homeless.

Certainly there are people with more risk factors for becoming homeless, but contextual factors that could be critical to those risk factors actually resulting in homelessness need to be taken into consideration. Whether they were homeless before arriving in Vancouver or became homeless after arriving in Vancouver as a result of the circumstances they found themselves in here is pretty important.

[PeteMoss]

What percentage of homeless have mental illness/addiction issues? The percentage who have jobs and are a homeless can't be a very high percentage of the total homeless.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Galakanokis

We've hired three kids over the last few months and they are making decent wages for being in their early 20's, maybe $45K-$50K. But one guy pays $2200 for an apartment!. There's nothing left. He mooches as much free food and drink from work that he can otherwise lives on ichiban noodles and Kraft dinner. None of them have a social life. They have no idea what it means to sit in a pub for hours after work with your friends and talk #### and play pool. What kind of life is that. Work and video games because they can't afford to go out.



In a neighborhood in north van I think someone is renting a camper van parked in a driveway for $2K a month. That is your living space. They can use the washroom and laundry inside but everything else is in the van. $2K.

How is that even worth it? 2K a month to use a washroom and laundry machine? Why even pay that for access to 2 things?

Edit - okay wait you also get the camper Van. Still!!

[afc wimbledon]

There are a couple of obvious and historic reasons Vancouver attracts the population it does, the climate is the obvious one, there is a historic draw for the native community across the Prairies that grew out of the logging industry, it was about the only industry that would hire natives back in the 50's and 60's, the camps were accessed by boat out of Vancouver, like the oil patch today, the guys would work a month on then get dumped onto the waterfront with a chunk of pay in their pocket and nowhere to live, hence the rise of the SRO's and the bars, hookers etc.

This set up the DTES and created a 'tradition' of native migration to Vancouver