[PGT] Best team ever 3 Flames 1

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Giordan's stats in the last half of last season.

CF% 13th
CA60 23rd
xGF% 16th
xGA60 23rd.

That's out of guys that shouldered top four minutes across the league.

He was a clear cut top pairing defenseman in the last half of last year, not "trash" at all.

Do those numbers include the 6 game new coach bump when the entire team was playing well?

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Do those numbers include the 6 game new coach bump when the entire team was playing well?

lol take out the games he played well and he really sucks!

[Mathgod]

K cool if you're so convinced that Gio is still an awesome defenseman, good for you. All I know is I'd gladly trade him to you if you were GM of another team and I was GM of the Flames and I'd smile & take your draft picks.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Do those numbers include the 6 game new coach bump when the entire team was playing well?

Just checked, they don't.

Half way through the Flames schedule was December 17th, which was after the six game winning streak.

[CGY12]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

K cool if you're so convinced that Gio is still an awesome defenseman, good for you. All I know is I'd gladly trade him to you if you were GM of another team and I was GM of the Flames and I'd smile & take your draft picks.

Don't bother, no reasoning with the Flames apologist. Only one team wins the cup and eight teams get past the first round, the Flames are like many other teams in the league, so what we are witnessing is completely acceptable and nobody should be upset about it. Trading Gio or even considering it is completely insane, we should ride his contract out till he retires because he brings an element to the team that allows us to be average.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by CGY12

Don't bother, no reasoning with the Flames apologist. Only one team wins the cup and eight teams get past the first round, the Flames are like many other teams in the league, so what we are witnessing is completely acceptable and nobody should be upset about it. Trading Gio or even considering it is completely insane, we should ride his contract out till he retires because he brings an element to the team that allows us to be average.

Don't think that was directed at me ... but still.

There's a lot of terrain between not wanting the guy traded and thinking he's trash.

I for one would love to see some core asset moved for futures, but it's not that hard to look up and disprove the idea that Giordano was terrible last season. He wasn't.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Don't think that was directed at me ... but still.

There's a lot of terrain between not wanting the guy traded and thinking he's trash.

I for one would love to see some core asset moved for futures, but it's not that hard to look up and disprove the idea that Giordano was terrible last season. He wasn't.

Sure, but he wasn't playing at a $6.75m level last season. He's even further away from that this season.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

K cool if you're so convinced that Gio is still an awesome defenseman, good for you. All I know is I'd gladly trade him to you if you were GM of another team and I was GM of the Flames and I'd smile & take your draft picks.

Who said that...but picking and choosing which games count is massive cherry picking

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by CGY12

Don't bother, no reasoning with the Flames apologist. Only one team wins the cup and eight teams get past the first round, the Flames are like many other teams in the league, so what we are witnessing is completely acceptable and nobody should be upset about it. Trading Gio or even considering it is completely insane, we should ride his contract out till he retires because he brings an element to the team that allows us to be average.

I have said multiple times the Flames should leave him unprotected and try and trade him but you and your two dude bros want to keep having a go at me.

All hail CGY12, Mathgod, and J.Markov

They knew the Flames would suck and told us so.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Who said that...but picking and choosing which games count is massive cherry picking

True, but then again consistency is a big part of what it means to be a good defenseman. If you are awesome some games but terrible in others, your overall numbers may balance out and look ok, but they'll say nothing about the peaks and valleys. That's all I was getting at.

I stand by my overall point about Gio steadily declining since the end of the 18-19 regular season.

No hostility toward you was intended at any point. Sorry if it came across that way. At the end of the day, we all just want what your signature says.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Sure, but he wasn't playing at a $6.75m level last season. He's even further away from that this season.

But this was always going to be the trade-off on this deal: at the outest it looked like two years of fantastic value; two years at expected value, and two years below value, which all together average out to market value. It actually worked out better than expected: the Flames got three years of elite-level play from Giordano along with a Norris trophy, and then one year of expected value over the first four years. These last two years on his deal were always going to be rough.

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[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

It actually worked out better than expected: the Flames got three years of elite-level play from Giordano along with a Norris trophy, and then one year of expected value over the first four years.

Hard disagree. https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showth...10#post7797210

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Sure, but he wasn't playing at a $6.75m level last season. He's even further away from that this season.

A player that returns top 10-25 at his position is certainly worth $6.75M as that represents a number one defenseman on average.

The stats above pretty much prove that out don't they?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

But this was always going to be the trade-off on this deal: at the outest it looked like two years of fantastic value; two years at expected value, and two years below value, which all together average out to market value. It actually worked out better than expected: the Flames got three years of elite-level play from Giordano along with a Norris trophy, and then one year of expected value over the first four years. These last two years on his deal were always going to be rough.

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Yeah honestly I thought we'd see two great seasons, two average seasons and then two where you'd be pulling your hair out.

Instead he gave them three all star seasons, an above average season ... and maybe two where you pull your hair out.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Hard disagree. https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showth...10#post7797210

So, what exactly am I supposed to be looking at, here? Your opinion that Giordano has been "mediocre" and "bad" the past two years?

That is hardly compelling.

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[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

By "bulk" you mean less than half? He may have won the Norris, but there hasn't been much to like since then. He was -3 in the Colorado series, +2 last season, -1 in the bubble, and -8 this season.

Tremendous in 18-19, very good in 16-17, mediocre in 17-18 and 19-20, and bad this season. So he played way above his pay grade in one season, at his pay grade in one, slightly below in two, and WAY below in one (likely two). I wouldn't call that getting full value.

You don't call a contract a steal just because you got great value in 2 out of the 6 years. If it resulted in a deep playoff run or two you could maybe make a case, but it didn't.

Mediocre in 17-18? The year where he had some of the best stats in the league?

Even last year he’s still a top 30 dman by about any metric.

This is the first year he’s struggled and I’d say he wasn’t worth the $6.75M.

Just because you made up some narrative in your head doesn’t make it true

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

So, what exactly am I supposed to be looking at, here? Your opinion that Giordano has been "mediocre" and "bad" the past two years?

That is hardly compelling.

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The plan:

Call every player terrible and wait for a bad season=pat on the back

I'm running out of hero cookies for the I told ya so gang

[TheChief]

Even if the fancy stats dont show it the eye tests does.The last two years shows Gio to be on a major decline basically since he lifted the Norris.



Problem is we have LOTS of under performers. He(gio) kinda is just maintaining status quo with his teammates.



Ive been saying this for years, even going back to the 2nd Ducks series. Monahan needs to be shipped out, he is so one dimensional when he inst scoring tap ins set up by Gaudreau.



We can and will never win with that as our top centre.


Bennett messed up this rebuild because he didn't succeed in being the true #1 centre we so desperately needed.



If you trade Gaudreau your offence is gone. It might as well be scorched earth if that's the case.



I hope and know Sutter will soon get Gaudreau away from Monahan and our fortunes will change.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by TheChief

If you trade Gaudreau your offence is gone. It might as well be scorched earth if that's the case.



I hope and know Sutter will soon get Gaudreau away from Monahan and our fortunes will change.

Gaudreau sucks when he is not playing with Monahan.

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[CGY12]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

But this was always going to be the trade-off on this deal: at the outest it looked like two years of fantastic value; two years at expected value, and two years below value, which all together average out to market value. It actually worked out better than expected: the Flames got three years of elite-level play from Giordano along with a Norris trophy, and then one year of expected value over the first four years. These last two years on his deal were always going to be rough.

And thats why with the team nowhere close to being a cup contender or a contender of any sort, while he is coming off a "fantastic" year you actively try to move him. Maybe the Flames did but I highly doubt it. Now we are left with two years of below value Gio with next to no value. Poor asset management, if the Flames were on the cusp it would be different.

Originally Posted by dino7c

I have said multiple times the Flames should leave him unprotected and try and trade him but you and your two dude bros want to keep having a go at me.

All hail CGY12, Mathgod, and J.Markov

They knew the Flames would suck and told us so.

Your schtick is getting old.

Originally Posted by Bingo

Don't think that was directed at me ... but still.

There's a lot of terrain between not wanting the guy traded and thinking he's trash.

I for one would love to see some core asset moved for futures, but it's not that hard to look up and disprove the idea that Giordano was terrible last season. He wasn't.

Not directed towards you. Agreed he hasn't been trash but definitely lost a step, which was inevitable.