Alberta Election Thread - Election Day April 16 2019

[Dion]

Billions of dollars into the election campaign, Notley insists promises fit into a 2023 balanced budget

It’s hard to say if the NDP’s spending promises, with more inevitably to come, would prevent that 2023 slaying of the deficit from being realized, said University of Calgary economist Trevor Tombe.

He said a bigger challenge in meeting that goal could be an overly optimistic energy royalties forecast the NDP is pegging at $12 billion a year by the early 2020s.

“I certainly expect an increase if prices don’t rise, but based on the National Energy Board’s projections, they’ll be $9 billion by 2023 … increased spending pressures will only increase reliance on royalties,” said Tombe.

“The government’s own forecast had been for $10 billion by that time.”

But he emphasized that the oil market’s notorious volatility could render all those forecasts moot.

But the NDP’s economic record shows it can’t be trusted to right Alberta’s fiscal ship and its campaign promises will only sink the province deeper in debt, said UCP MLA Ric McIver.

“On the ‘path to balance’ promise, the NDP has no credibility. In their 2015 campaign platform they promised that by 2019-20 there would be a $586-million surplus,” said McIver.

“In reality, we’re facing a $7.9-billion deficit for the year and are on track for an unprecedented $95 billion in debt.”

Tombe said the NDP itself believes in the power of tax incentives as seen with its subsidies directed at the petrochemical industry and other measures.

Plans to double that petrochemical incentive, said the economist, “do come at the cost of a higher budget deficit.”

While it may not be direct spending, they do appear in budget documents “in the form of lower royalties than would otherwise be the case,” added Tombe.

https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...alanced-budget

[Travis Munroe]

I think Ozy Flame needs to create his own thread " Anti UCP Twitter Updates ". He/she is like the sureloss of any negative news coming from the UCP.

GGG, love the idea on a sodium tax too. I have an awful diet and the only excuse I have is that it is cheap and easy. If a sodium or sugar tax was able to subsidize healthy eating and I could grab a nice loaded cobb salad for $6, I think we would see significant health care savings. I am sure we have all meal prepped before...for a week or 2 until it becomes a daunting task. After the first few days it feels great to eat healthy but the temptation of quick junk vs hours in the kitchen prepping eventually wins. Imagine a world where that processed $3 cheeseburger or 2 for $3 cokes actually costs $9 and a salad or other nutrient rich food was easily accessible for $3.

As for the dr visitation fee, this was more so directed at family doctors. I don't believe it is nearly as big of an issue on the ER level but I know it is a issue on the family doctor issue. Maybe I am just out of touch but would $5 to $20 depending on income really deter anyone from seeing a doctor if they thought there was an issue? I feel something like this (with more studies on how to implement it properly) is the right balance to funding public health care. I couldn't believe (although I should have) that 40% of this provinces budget is for healthcare only and it got me thinking that if you could somehow attract some revenue without hurting everyones right to healthcare, it could help out in a major way.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Travis Munroe

I think Ozy Flame needs to create his own thread " Anti UCP Twitter Updates ". He/she is like the sureloss of any negative news coming from the UCP.

Pepsi free, I am not trying to nor will I argue with you. I have been warned by countless that you like to troll for debate and have experienced it in other threads. So much so you felt the need to apologize. I am not going down that rabbit hole when it comes to politics. I don't try to tell anyone they are wrong or right. We all believe in something different. You on the other hand believe that there is only 1 right answer and it is your own.

On the first point, have you visited the Canadian politics thread? Captain runs a clinic on “Anti Liberal Updates,” and Dion has been on a consistent roll of “Anti NDP updates” in any Alberta politics thread for quite some time. If you don’t appreciate people bringing up news, there’s plenty of people to take issue with, so i’m not sure why you’d target Ozy.

On the second point, I’m not trying to argue with you, I’m asking for you to clarify your point. You posit that there are two versions of a recipient of the tax subsidy, those struggling to get by, and those who can afford luxurious vacations. You don’t have children, but based on this thread and much of the conversation concerning childcare costs across twitter, don’t you think you’re leaving out the majority of people that are neither unable to afford food, or have enough money to splurge?

But don’t call me a troll or pretend to know what I believe. I’m questioning your position because I want to know what you think/believe I have an angle you haven’t considered. Either engage, or don’t, it’s all good, but don’t start insulting people you disagree with.

We have these conversations for fun, don’t we? Don’t take it so seriously that anybody questioning your position is suddenly a “troll.”

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

For number 2, you are creating a punitive system for people with chronic illnesses that may discourage them from seeking help when needed.

Sweden charges a small fee for going to the doctor ($25). So does Norway. Those are two of the most egalitarian countries in the world. And both countries rank higher than Canada in health care outcomes.

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I can't imagine many people pop into a doctor's office just for the hell of it. If they do, you have the family doctor deal with it. Now, if you want to prevent ER visits I'd be all for something to reduce those, but that would have to include 24/7 clinics as alternatives, since doctor's aren't typically available.

Unnecessary visits to doctors and to ER are actually a big expense. There are people who go to the doctor every time they and or their kids have a cold. ERs have frequent visitors, often lonely people or hypochondriacs who go to the ER multiple times a month, often on a schedule ("it's Friday night Nancy"). It's estimated one in five visits to the ER in Canada are unnecessary.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Travis Munroe

I think Ozy Flame needs to create his own thread " Anti UCP Twitter Updates ". He/she is like the sureloss of any negative news coming from the UCP.

<snip>.

I don’t know about that. To be fair, there’s a lot of mudslinging, but what in the world is Kenney doing?! All the guy needed to do is spend 28 days talking about the economy, jobs, pipelines and debts. That’s it. Then he steps out starts talking about Bill 24 being repealed and tries to defend his view that kids should be outed to their parents. I don’t get it.

All I hear in the media is that Kenney is a remarkable politician, and he is such a great campaigner, and they look like their actually trying to throw this. Maybe he doesn’t actually want to be premier?

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Sweden charges a small fee for going to the doctor ($25). So does Norway. Those are two of the most egalitarian countries in the world. And both countries rank higher than Canada in health care outcomes.

Unnecessary visits to doctors and to ER are actually a big expense. There are people who go to the doctor every time they and or their kids have a cold. ERs have frequent visitors, often lonely people or hypochondriacs who go to the ER multiple times a month, often on a schedule ("it's Friday night Nancy"). It's estimated one in five visits to the ER in Canada are unnecessary.

I wonder if things are different in terms of work-flow there? Here at a doctors office there’s not much “actual medicine” that takes place. I’ve been told to go to the ER for things because there was nowhere else to go at that point. It’s a giant catch-all and that definitely leads to increased use that could be handled much more efficiently.

[Fuzz]

Some ugly stuff here...I won't break it all out as there are several issues hit on, worth a read.

In a letter sent to the RCMP, former UCP caucus member Prab Gill accused the Kenney campaign of using fake email addresses in order to receive the PINs needed to cast a vote and then voting en masse for Kenney.
CBC News has not independently verified Gill's allegations.
CBC News searched for historical registration data using DomainTools and confirmed that dozens of email addresses attached to UCP members were all purchased by anonymous sources in the lead-up to the UCP leadership vote, between Sept. 20 and Oct. 13, 2017.
Many of those emails, with domains like link3mail.com and jaringmail.com, all link back to the same web host.
It is not known who bought those email addresses.
Mann also questions who paid for memberships. Under UCP rules, a membership must be purchased by the individual or an immediate family member.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...066753?cmp=rss

So greasy.

[GGG]

So if you remember the last round of Kenny denials he said his campaign communicated but did not finance Calloway.

The election commissioner found Mann contributed a total of $9,000 to the Callaway campaign that was not his own, agreeing to attach names to contribution forms that had pre-filled amounts of $3,000 for himself and two others.

Per the above article Happy Mann is now charged with making illegal donations to the Calloway Campaign. Happy Mann was in Kenny’s inner circle per the Press Progress email dump which no one has called into question.

So I believe it’s now reasonable to state that the Kenny campaign illegally financed the Calloway campaign. I don’t know how at this point you can vote for him as leader. He is now incompetent or complicit either way it’s disqualifying.

As an aside that article is really well written and sourced being very clear what has and hasn’t been independently verified and the relationships between the groups of people.

[AltaGuy]

Originally Posted by Travis Munroe

I think Ozy Flame needs to create his own thread " Anti UCP Twitter Updates ". He/she is like the sureloss of any negative news coming from the UCP.

Pepsi free, I am not trying to nor will I argue with you. I have been warned by countless that you like to troll for debate and have experienced it in other threads. So much so you felt the need to apologize. I am not going down that rabbit hole when it comes to politics. I don't try to tell anyone they are wrong or right. We all believe in something different. You on the other hand believe that there is only 1 right answer and it is your own.

Dude, are you serious here? You’ve posted some of the most one-sided, leading, and outrageously biased tripe in this thread, including a list of bad-faith and leading “questions” for NDP supporters, and yet you have the gall to call out supporters of the other side? Actually - scratch that - Pepsi isn’t even a supporter of the NDP asfaik.

Your “discussion” here is transparently partisan and intellectually dishonest - dismissing any other poster for their views or questions or posts is ridiculous.

[Travis Munroe]

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

Dude, are you serious here? You’ve posted some of the most one-sided, leading, and outrageously biased tripe in this thread, including a list of bad-faith and leading “questions” for NDP supporters, and yet you have the gall to call out supporters of the other side? Actually - scratch that - Pepsi isn’t even a supporter of the NDP asfaik.

Your “discussion” here is transparently partisan and intellectually dishonest - dismissing any other poster for their views or questions or posts is ridiculous.

I wasn't knocking ozy flame. Was joking around about how quick he is to get that stuff hence the comparison to sure loss who we all find to be a wizard.

I agree that there are people on all sides posting stuff, I took a playful jab at ozy as he gets in, posts some headline tweet and leaves. It was all in good fun.

I take GGG for example... Obvious where his support lies but I feel it's possible you could hear him agree with something on the other side of the tracks or disagree with something on his own side. I enjoy his take even though I disagree with some of it and could have a enjoyable debate back and forth. Troutman is another who we have differing opinions on just about everything but can debate it and feel each side is actually listening.

And for the record, I do not discredit anyone with a different view as you claim. I'm pretty sure I have commented multiple times and admit where I don't have skin in the game to truly have a say (such as having children).

[stampsx2]

I disagree with any doctor visitation fee because it’s only a matter of time before we start talking about free visits for those with lower incomes. That then means it’a just another tax on the middle and upper class to visit a doctor. Can we put a spotlight on who’s making the most unnessary use of er’s? Last few times i was there it was a hangout for the homeless.

[Resolute 14]

Notley in 2015: "I'll balance the budget in time for the next election. Pinky swear!"

Notley in 2019: "I'll balance the budget in time for the next election. Pinky swear!"

Since patterns seem to repeat with her, I wonder what major tax she plans to introduce if re-elected that she's too much of a coward to campaign on?

[Travis Munroe]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Some ugly stuff here...I won't break it all out as there are several issues hit on, worth a read.



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...066753?cmp=rss

So greasy.

Looks more guilty by the day... I wonder if a replacement has even crosses their mind or if they plan to life or die by Kenney?

What is the rule on replacing Kenney? Didn't I see that once the election is called you are not able to replace that candidate unless for emergency purpose?

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Travis Munroe

As for Pepsi, this goes back further. Numerous people advised not to engage in debate with him and he himself messaging me knowing he can take things from debate to argument for lack of a better term is my point behind that comment. I got sucked in once before and won't do it again .

I thought it was a fair question. Especially in this thread that is specifically designed to house political debate. If ya can’t take the heat...

Not to mention, I’m pretty sure Univeristy & Day care cost a whole hell of a lot more than a trip to Mexico... and have significantly more importance.

Do you consider a household income of $100,000 to be “well off” in 2019????

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Sweden charges a small fee for going to the doctor ($25). So does Norway. Those are two of the most egalitarian countries in the world. And both countries rank higher than Canada in health care outcomes.



Unnecessary visits to doctors and to ER are actually a big expense. There are people who go to the doctor every time they and or their kids have a cold. ERs have frequent visitors, often lonely people or hypochondriacs who go to the ER multiple times a month, often on a schedule ("it's Friday night Nancy"). It's estimated one in five visits to the ER in Canada are unnecessary.

The only time I was ever in the ER was for a dislocated ankle. After they snapped my foot back in the doctor went to the person next to me on the other side of the sheet and the lady was there with a sore throat. The dr tried to just tell her to get some sleep and drink fluids but she wouldn't leave and kept talking about random stuff. I'm sure this is a huge problem for all hospitals.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Travis Munroe

Looks more guilty by the day... I wonder if a replacement has even crosses their mind or if they plan to life or die by Kenney?

What is the rule on replacing Kenney? Didn't I see that once the election is called you are not able to replace that candidate unless for emergency purpose?

Given the amount of control Kenney looks to have over the party, it's doubtful even if someone had the idea that they would speak up about it. They'd just be lined up for a summary execution by the Kenney loyalty gang.

[Travis Munroe]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

I thought it was a fair question. Especially in this thread that is specifically designed to house political debate. If ya can’t take the heat...

Not to mention, I’m pretty sure Univeristy & Day care cost a whole hell of a lot more than a trip to Mexico... and have significantly more importance.

Do you consider a household income of $100,000 to be “well off” in 2019????

This is my point.... I don't believe that the filter between society paying for other kids daycare and not paying for it should be are you well off or not well off.

A family with a household income of 100,000 and 1 child can live comfortably. Not well off but certainly not needing a government assisted program paid by tax payers. Perhaps this is a way to stimulate an economy with too many job vacancies but we are nowhere near that (despite some claiming this will help put people back to work)

It is such a touchy subject that I can see why it was brought up.... Solid political move imo. I sound like a bad guy being against it when the majority would benefit from it.

[Scroopy Noopers]

I just think the take of “others peoples kids” is silly.

They’re Allbertans. Who will grow up and contribute to the economy... you want people to be well cared for, healthy, and educated. So they can contribute positively.

[Ducay]

Its a garbage idea. You either subsidize all child care or you subsidize only those low-income earners.

Subsidizing based on type of daycare (including NPOs and day homes but not private daycares) makes zero sense and all of the sudden makes a rush on being in the "right" daycare for subsidy rather than what works best for the family or will have the best outcomes.

And that doesn't even get into the whole cost side of things. As someone with 2 day care aged children, this would be a great win for my family, but I'm at least responsible enough to acknowledge the stupidity of giving away free money at a time when the province has none. Many low/mid income earners will fall for this ploy given it may net them thousands a month.

[Amethyst]

I agre that there are people who visit doctors and ERs when they don't need to. I don't think a fee solves this problem. Homeless people won't pay a fee (because we can't deny healthcare to the poor) and nervous or lonely people will pay it and still clog things up. The ones who won't pay are those who hate going to the doctor to begin with. They are the ones who will shrug off small things until it can't be avoided and then will end up needing major, expensive treatment.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Travis Munroe

As for Pepsi, this goes back further. Numerous people advised not to engage in debate with him and he himself messaging me knowing he can take things from debate to argument for lack of a better term is my point behind that comment. I got sucked in once before and won't do it again.

This is the last time i’ll bring it up, but not only have I never messaged you, we’ve also never interacted before this thread. Checked my private messages and did a search of any time I might have quoted you prior to this month and... nothing. So, I don’t appreciate the lying, and if you have buddies that have messaged you telling you how awful I am, feel free to leave it private, otherwise you’re just being a ‘mean girl’.