[Rumour] McKenzie: dealbreaker for Flames is that Sens want Valimaki in Stone package

[sureLoss]

Jermain Franklin @TSNJFranklin
I can confirm my colleagues recent reports concerning Michael Stone’s little bro. The #Sens ask is multiple picks and prospects. They’re trying to create a bidding war “for sure”. “Makes no sense” for #Flames to get involved in the bids. The hope is the price lowers

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by MolsonInBothHands

This thread reminds me of how the Flames nearly lost Rico Fata in an expansion draft.

I would rather it be Brodie as the outgoing D man. Love all of the young guys right now, and salary has to go the other way.

Exactly. And those who are worrying about the expansion draft, why don't we wait and see a year or two what each of these players develope into before accidentally giving up on the best one.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by LWcrowfoot

Probably not, no. But the potential for Brodie to be moved is high and Michael Stone as well.

Which, I agree, if someone can switch and be a right side D, you might hang on to all 3-4 young guys.

[AC]

Originally Posted by getbak

The Stanley Cup will be awarded 3 more times before the expansion draft.

Even if you're worried about losing one of those three guys for nothing, there is still plenty of time to address that.

Of course there's plenty of time. I absolutely agree with that.

But realistically, are there many better fits than Mark Stone? Sure it might be earlier than we have to make that type of move, but the fit might be so perfect it makes sense.

If the trade and sign went through, our F core would be:
Gaudreau (25) - Monahan (24) - Lindholm (24)
Tkachuk (21) - Backlund (29) - Stone (26)
Bennett (22)

And Jankowski (24) could supplant Backlund in the coming years.

With our D core:
Hanifin (22) - Hamonic (28)
Valimaki (20) - Andersson (22)

Not even including Giordano who has 3 more years or Brodie who we could keep until the expansion or move as well.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by dre

That is quite a high anchor. The one thing on our side is the deadline, and no deal is better than a bad deal.

Agreed, no deal is better than a bad deal.

I think the GM has three objectives when making a deal.
1. Make a deal that helps your team.
2. Don't make a deal if it hurts your team long term.
3. If you can't do 1 and 2, drive up the price and force one of the other teams to make a bad deal that hurts their team.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by LWcrowfoot

Outscoring ? Sure but out pointing is Rasmus.

That would be incorrect, unless you're docking Kylington for minutes the organization hasn't allowed him to play.

7 points in 402:43 minutes vs 9 points in 788:25 minutes 5v5 - the first is Oliver Kylington and the second is Rasmus Andersson.

Juuso Valimaki is even less productive than these two with 2 points in 298:43 minutes.

But "He's been better" is all you hear even though it's not rooted in anything actual. If that's not size bias I'm not sure what is.

This goes back to last year where Andersson was on PP1 in Stockton and Kylington was not - even though Kylington outproduced Andersson 5v5.

[Flash Walken]

To Ottawa:
2019 1st, 2020 1st, Neal, Dube, Kylington

To Calgary:
Mark Stone @ 9.15x6

[sureLoss]

I think the Jets are in a better position to meet the Sens asking price (probably why some reports have them as the front runners). But if the Jets decide to move on and decide to expend assets on someone else, for example Hayes, then it could be Treliving's chance to move in and get a price more in line with what the Flames are willing to pay.

[Sylvanfan]

Don't be the team that let's Doran off the hook for years of terrible trades.

Half of the rumored ask is the most that the Flames should pay for Stone. Even if they can sign him he'll be the most expensive player on the team which will force other moves. For that price better to chase a RFA or guy like Coutrier who has term at an attractive price.

[browna]

Thing is, the Flames have been at this probably for a week and certainly intensely the last few days, after BT showing interest in Stone many times before. That ask that Steinberg tweeted was probably the original, and maybe still current, maybe not. It hasn't scared them into completely moving on from the Sens though.

Point being, it certainly doesn't sound as if they're walking away and the Flames at least feel there is a deal to be made. . At this point, it's almost at the compromise point, where both sides have to move a bit and both sides also don't want to feel that they've lost the negotiation. Of course there's external factors like other teams offers etc.

[Yoho]

Game of chicken at this point.

[Andrew]

I would rather pay him as ufa and use pick prospect to dump neal

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

That would be incorrect, unless you're docking Kylington for minutes the organization hasn't allowed him to play.

7 points in 402:43 minutes vs 9 points in 788:25 minutes 5v5 - the first is Oliver Kylington and the second is Rasmus Andersson.

Juuso Valimaki is even less productive than these two with 2 points in 298:43 minutes.

But "He's been better" is all you hear even though it's not rooted in anything actual. If that's not size bias I'm not sure what is.

I think the biggest knock on Kylington is the coach doesn't trust him enough yet. He trusts Rasmus enough to put him on the top pairing and to put him on the ice in the last minute with the game on the line.

The only medicine for that is time.

[mrdonkey]

Has a pending UFA ever garnered the kind of return Dorian is asking for here? Seems like the kind of trade that Sens fans on HF would throw around.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

That would be incorrect, unless you're docking Kylington for minutes the organization hasn't allowed him to play.

7 points in 402:43 minutes vs 9 points in 788:25 minutes 5v5 - the first is Oliver Kylington and the second is Rasmus Andersson.

Juuso Valimaki is even less productive than these two with 2 points in 298:43 minutes.

But "He's been better" is all you hear even though it's not rooted in anything actual. If that's not size bias I'm not sure what is.

As I said way earlier, how can it be size bias when I have no clue how big each guy is? If anything, you may have a small player bias, given how you bring it up all the time.

The organization seems to trust Andersson more. Why? I suspect his defensive play is better.

Valimaki is younger - and who knows what his production would be with more seasoning as the year went on. I don't think you can compare those two at all.

[cannon7]

Think giving up any of Valimaki, Kylington or Anderson would be a mistake. Those are 3/4 of a solid young d-core going forward. Could live with either Dube or Mangiapanae, though.

[daveinspruce]

If we trade away for Stone, and some how sign him. What does that mean as far as Tkachuck’s contract next year?

[Krynn]

Tell them hell no ,we will just wait and offer him a contract if he doesn't sign with what ever team is dumb enough to over pay for him ,

[Cain]

Stone would be a big haul, but man, I wouldn't give up Kylington lightly. Been super impressed with him and think he is going to be a big Dman going forward.

[Caged Great]

If it ended up being 2 1sts, Dube + something relatively small (3rd rounder or equivalent asset) then that would be perfectly fine if Stone is kept long term.