[PGT] Flames come back to beat the Coilers 4-2

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Red

Not sure I agree. Flames played scared and out of sync. If not for Ritter's 3 breakaway stops we are singing a different tune. Blow and a beat down. Like game 1 2016-2017 when Kassian Lucic and Maroon were talking thrash and threatened the flames during the warm up.
Kassian got stupid and got thrown out for the whole second period. That was a game changer. He plays a bit smarter and things could be very different with everyone looking over their shoulder.

And really, how effective was a Dube or Jankowski? Would rather have a heavy weight in those games.

Maybe more effective than a net negative goon. Look at Kassian - was he a positive for the Oilers or would a decent skater and defensive player like Tobias Reider have been more help in the third?

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Red

Not sure I agree. Flames played scared and out of sync. If not for Ritter's 3 breakaway stops we are singing a different tune. Blow out and a beat down. Like game 1 2016-2017 when Kassian Lucic and Maroon were talking thrash and threatened the flames during the warm up.
Kassian got stupid and got thrown out for the whole second period. That was a game changer. He plays a bit smarter and things could be very different with everyone looking over their shoulder.

And really, how effective was a Dube or Jankowski? Would rather have a heavy weight in those games.

Bolded is kind of the point, though.

[Red]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Maybe more effective than a net negative goon. Look at Kassian - was he a positive for the Oilers or would a decent skater and defensive player like Tobias Reider have been more help in the third?

Kassian did his job in the first. He had way more impact than any Flame until he got tossed. Is net negative bad when he makes a flames star invisible? The Flames had no game until he got tossed.

Maybe a coincidence, but I dont buy it.

[flamesrule_kipper34]

Originally Posted by Red

Kassian did his job in the first. He had way more impact than any Flame until he got tossed. Is net negative bad when he makes a flames star invisible? The Flames had no game until he got tossed.

Maybe a coincidence, but I dont buy it.

I get what you're saying but you're glossing over a pretty important fact here.

He got tossed and gave up a 4 minute PP due to his antics, I don't see that as any net positive.

Don't disagree that he got under our skin and started off the game successfully playing his role. But by the end Kassian was Kassian which was not a positive.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Red

Kassian did his job in the first. He had way more impact than any Flame until he got tossed. Is net negative bad when he makes a flames star invisible? The Flames had no game until he got tossed.

Maybe a coincidence, but I dont buy it.

I didn't see Kassian accomplish anything in the first, which was when he took his triple minor plus 10. What Flames star did he make invisible? Gaudreau? Gaudreau has long periods where he looks like that with or without so-called intimidation. But he wasn't invisible. What happened was that he was all over the ice, but making a couple bad passes, like he always does (because he tries difficult things). With Johnny you live with the giveaways and take the brilliant passes. I didn't see Kassian ever catch Gaudreau.

Lucic put a good hit on Gio. So what. Gio hits guys and can take a hit. Other than that Lucic was a giveaway machine all night.

[Red]

Originally Posted by flamesrule_kipper34

I get what you're saying but you're glossing over a pretty important fact here.

He got tossed and gave up a 4 minute PP due to his antics, I don't see that as any net positive.

Don't disagree that he got under our skin and started off the game successfully playing his role. But by the end Kassian was Kassian which was not a positive.

I mentioned earlier that he crossed the line and made himself useless in the end. But that doesnt change the fact that a smarter player would be able to continue intimidating the flames without getting tossed. Like the Ducks used to do to most teams. They didnt win just on talent alone.

[flamesrule_kipper34]

Originally Posted by Red

I mentioned earlier that he crossed the line and made himself useless in the end. But that doesnt change the fact that a smarter player would be able to continue intimidating the flames without getting tossed. Like the Ducks used to do to most teams. They didnt win just on talent alone.

Agreed, a smarter player. Don't think we could ever classify Kassian as such .

[Red]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I didn't see Kassian accomplish anything in the first, which was when he took his triple minor plus 10. What Flames star did he make invisible? Gaudreau? Gaudreau has long periods where he looks like that with or without so-called intimidation. But he wasn't invisible. What happened was that he was all over the ice, but making a couple bad passes, like he always does (because he tries difficult things). With Johnny you live with the giveaways and take the brilliant passes. I didn't see Kassian ever catch Gaudreau.

Lucic put a good hit on Gio. So what. Gio hits guys and can take a hit. Other than that Lucic was a giveaway machine all night.

Oh yes, gio got rocked and no wear for tear. Had a fantastic game, right?



They had their heads on a swivel. You seriously underestimare how much Kassian enables others to act out.
The whole team plays with a chip on their shoulder.

Anyways. Agree to disagree.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Red

I mentioned earlier that he crossed the line and made himself useless in the end. But that doesnt change the fact that a smarter player would be able to continue intimidating the flames without getting tossed. Like the Ducks used to do to most teams. They didnt win just on talent alone.

Exactly what heavyweight did the Ducks employ then? I think they used big skilled guys who play a heavy game, like Getzlaf, Perry, Lindholm and Manson - that's not intimidation - it's just a game that gave them the puck a lot because they could remove other teams smaller players from it.

Everyone hates Kesler but he isn't a goon. He has more Tkachuk in him than Kassian.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Red

Oh yes, gio got rocked and no wear for tear. Had a fantastic game, right?



They had their heads on a swivel. You seriously underestimare how much Kassian enables others to act out.
The whole team plays with a chip on their shoulder.

Anyways. Agree to disagree.

Gio wasn't having a great game from the get-go, not because he was intimidated. You actually think Mark Giordano gets scared?

[Red]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Gio wasn't having a great game from the get-go, not because he was intimidated. You actually think Mark Giordano gets scared?

Yes. It's a human thing. Nobody likes to be in pain ir get his face smashed up in front of 20K people.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Red

Not sure I agree. Flames played scared and out of sync. If not for Ritter's 3 breakaway stops we are singing a different tune. Blow out and a beat down. Like game 1 2016-2017 when Kassian Lucic and Maroon were talking thrash and threatened the flames during the warm up.
Kassian got stupid and got thrown out for the whole second period. That was a game changer. He plays a bit smarter and things could be very different with everyone looking over their shoulder.

And really, how effective was a Dube or Jankowski? Would rather have a heavy weight in those games.

Burke was on Tim and Sid and the 5 minute goon came up. Burke was mentioning that he had no problem playing a deterrent for 5 mins. Mentioned that teams get in a rhythm and and roll three lines (seeing that a lot in Calgary lately) so him sitting on the bench isn't an issue.

[868904]

I don't think dressing Peluso would have changed whether Kassian would have went after Tkachuk. There was nothing to prevent that, short of Peluso leaving the bench and going after Kassian.

What Kassian did really warrants a suspension. If he landed one flush, we are talking about a serious concussion for Tkachuk and there would be huge controversy. Flames, Tkachuk, Kassian, NHL all got lucky that nothing serious came from that.

Having said that, I still would have preferred that they dressed Peluso, considering Dube only got like 4 minutes. It's not so much to prevent what Kassian did, but rather, to prevent what happened to Hamonic in Game 1.

IF, Hamonic's jaw wasn't broken, he might have fought Kassian later in the game or even Lucic, that's just the type of guy and teammate Hamonic is. And if Hamonic did that, he'd probably get his jaw broken again. You can't put Hamonic in that position. That is Peluso's role and you can't lose a guy like Hamonic for that.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by 868904

I don't think dressing Peluso would have changed whether Kassian would have went after Tkachuk. There was nothing to prevent that, short of Peluso leaving the bench and going after Kassian.

What Kassian did really warrants a suspension. If he landed one flush, we are talking about a serious concussion for Tkachuk and there would be huge controversy. Flames, Tkachuk, Kassian, NHL all got lucky that nothing serious came from that.

Having said that, I still would have preferred that they dressed Peluso, considering Dube only got like 4 minutes. It's not so much to prevent what Kassian did, but rather, to prevent what happened to Hamonic in Game 1.

IF, Hamonic's jaw wasn't broken, he might have fought Kassian later in the game or even Lucic, that's just the type of guy and teammate Hamonic is. And if Hamonic did that, he'd probably get his jaw broken again. You can't put Hamonic in that position. That is Peluso's role and you can't lose a guy like Hamonic for that.

Yeah, Dube only got 6 minutes so that's where you use Peluso (you can't dress Prout). However, if Calgary doesn't give up a dumb shorty and a two on one goal, so that the Flames had to shorten then bench to catch up, plus the fact Dube wasn't on any special team unit in a penalty filled game, I suspect Dube gets more minutes.

Peluso is preferable to Prout as far as ability too.

[direwolf]

The game changer wasn't Kassian getting thrown out. It was David Rittich. If not for him, that game would have been out of reach, and I think his stellar play and infectious enthusiasm rubbed off on his teammates.

The Flames definitely got sucked into the goonery during the first half of the game, and it threw them out of sync because that's not really their style of play outside of guys like Chucky and Bennett. But once they settled down and started skating, forechecking, and putting pucks on net, the Oilers had no answer. They even tried putting their goons onto their top two lines, and it still didn't work for them. There were a couple of amazing shifts in the 3rd where the Flames hemmed them in for what seemed like minutes while looking like the Harlem Globetrotters.

You think the Flames are gonna be scared of these clowns the next time they play? Not a chance. Tkachuk is firmly in the Oilers' heads now, and the Flames know that the answer to beating them is to simply out-skate and out-work them. The only game plan the Oilers seem to have for us is to try and goon it up, and I'm sure they'll try more shenanigans the next time we play them. As long as the Flames ignore most of that crap and just move their feet like they did in the 2nd half of that game, we'll be just fine.

Also, how good was the Backlund line against McDavid. Yeah, he scored on the 2 on 1, but he was completely neutralized for the rest of that game, and I loved how Backs got in his face. That's a huge positive going forward.

[transplant99]

You can bank on Peluso or Prout being in the lineup on Dec. 9th. Its a no brainer.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by transplant99

You can bank on Peluso or Prout being in the lineup on Dec. 9th. Its a no brainer.

Maybe but I'm not sure why we wouldn't want to ice the exact same roster.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Maybe but I'm not sure why we wouldn't want to ice the exact same roster.

Because Mike Smith will be in the AHL.

[Toonage]

Also Kassian, Lucic & Nurse will be looking to drag someone off with them and why let that be Tkachuk or Bennett when it can be Prout or Peluso.

Also why risk Tkachuk getting legit concussed when one of those meatheads goes over the line or if someone decides Gaudreau is getting run.

The only reason the Flames have Prout on the roster should be for these games. Thats it. he plays 3 times a year and thats all. Otherwise, what is the point?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Maybe but I'm not sure why we wouldn't want to ice the exact same roster.

Because Dube and his 6 minutes of icetime can't skate up to Kassian and tell him to cool it or he will be answering to a guy in his own weight class.

It was ridiculous that there was no response from the Flames in regards to that attack....or the slewfoot by Draisitel.