[News] Head coach Bob Hartley fired; Associate coach Jacques Cloutier not returning

[IceMan]

Originally Posted by Dion

A coach who has a habit of losing game 7's at home and no Cups on his record is not all that special to me. He had some great teams but failed to get the job done. I want a coach that can get us to the promised land.

The Chicago Blackhawks fired Denis Savard after the first 4 games of the 2008/2009 season.

They then decided to hire a coach who had never previously gotten his team to the "promised land" but consistently got his teams to the playoffs year in year out. You know the story after that.

I will gladly take a guy like Bruce Boudreau. I am not saying that he is going to win 3 cups in 6 years but this team needs a new voice just like the Blackhawks did in 2008.

Edit: Beaten to it by SuperMatt18

[Hockey_Ninja]

Feel bad for Bob. I hope he finds a good team and does will (not against us obviously).

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by IceMan xMVPx

The Chicago Blackhawks fired Denis Savard after the first 4 games of the 2008/2009 season.

They then decided to hire a coach who had never previously gotten his team to the "promised land" but consistently got his teams to the playoffs year in year out. You know the story after that.

I will gladly take a guy like Bruce Boudreau. I am not saying that he is going to win 3 cups in 6 years but this team needs a new voice just like the Blackhawks did in 2008.

Edit: Beaten to it by SuperMatt18

Quenneville career record before Chicago: 438-283-118 (No cups)
Boudreau; 409-192-80 (No Cups)

Boudreau actually has a better record than Qunneville did prior to him ending up in Chicago - I would also say that those Blues/Avs teams of the 90s/00s would be similar quality to the Washington & Anaheim teams that Boudreau coached.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

So you want Babcock, Sutter or Quenville only? Gotcha


Would you have not hired those guys before they won the cup?

I have my reservations about if he is the right fit for a rebuilding hockey club.

[btimbit]

Boudreau's record speaks for itself. I blame the playoff failures on the players not the coach. He has the highest win percentage of any active coach, and is second all time in coaches with over 100 games. It's not like those Anaheim or Washington teams were doing amazing before he got there either.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Rebuild bro. And a playoff series win during said rebuild. Without their captain. Somehow he got 56 points from Dennis Wideman.

I do get the sentiment though, I thought the same thing when Brent wasn't renewed.

I'm not just talking wins/losses. Getting outplayed wildly. And I'm not sure you can credit goalie pull wins to get into the playoffs a success. Like Treliving said, he got the basics in and that's great. But Hartley is never taking this team further with his system. The flames weren't getting better

[saXon]

Canucks Nation out here in Van are all up in arrears because Calgary might snag their wunderkid Travis Green.

[Dajazz]

The fact that there is little to no outrage makes me believe that its the right move. Everyone seems pretty ok with it.

[Super Nintendo Chalmers]

Originally Posted by saXon

Canucks Nation out here in Van are all up in arrears because Calgary might snag their wunderkid Travis Green.

Green has shown a knack with a younger line up. May not be ready for the bigs but there's only one way to find out.

Kinda surprised at the firing.

[Trailer Fire]

Travis might be a touch green, no? 45 seems a bit young for a coach.

Edit: Pun not intentional.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Agreed, but how about we win our division 8 years straight before worrying about whether we can make it over the hump or not. I can live with that sort of "disappointment".

Yeah, this is a team that has had home ice advantage in a playoff series once in the last 20 years. Find a coach who can get the Flames into a position to regularly play a Game 7 at home and then I'll start worrying about losing too many of them.

[Fischy13]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Hasn't been a rule, though I'm sure the teams sometimes pass off informal compensation when making later trades.

The unwritten-written rule is that you don't stand in the way of a minor league coach/manager when they get an NHL opportunity. Aside from being a dick move, it would be an excellent way to ensure up and coming coaches and managers avoid your organization in the future.

Yeah it was a rule last year. The Oilers gave up compensation for Chirelli. There was someone else that gave a second rounder for a fired coach too.

Update,

I guess they got rid of it all together, I thought they just amended it so compensation wasn't required for fired (under contract) coaches. Looks like its all gone.

https://www.nhl.com/news/nhl-to-end-...olicy/c-791590

"The policy in place this year allowed the Vancouver Canucks to secure a second-round draft pick when coach John Tortorella was hired by the Columbus Blue Jackets on Oct. 21. Tortorella hadn't coached for the Canucks since the end of the 2013-14 season, but he was still under contract. The Toronto Maple Leafs had to sacrifice third-round draft picks to the Detroit Red Wings and New Jersey Devils for hiring coach Mike Babcock in May and general manager Lou Lamoriello in September.

The Pittsburgh Penguins received a draft pick from the Buffalo Sabres when they hired Dan Bylsma, who was fired by the Penguins following the 2013-14 season. They also got one from the Devils for hiring coach John Hynes, who was coaching Pittsburgh's affiliate in the American Hockey League.

The San Jose Sharks got a draft pick from the Edmonton Oilers when they hired coach Todd McLellan. The Boston Bruins also got a pick from the Oilers for hiring general manager Peter Chiarelli.

On two occasions, the compensation proviso was waived. Coach Peter DeBoer was hired without compensation by the Sharks after being fired by the Devils last season. GM Ray Shero, fired after the 2013-14 season by the Penguins, went to New Jersey this summer without compensation."

Brian Burke, the Calgary Flames president of hockey operations, was a supporter of the compensation policy until he heard the presentation from Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly on Tuesday.

"What we were trying to do was provide an orderly way for young management people or coaches to be allowed to progress and move up the ladder, but a team that had skill at identifying young people would be compensated for it," Burke said. "It was never envisioned it would apply to terminated employees. The League applied it in that manner and they presented today, I think, some compelling ideas for eliminating it and they eliminated it.

"Once it was explained why they recommended that it would be eliminated, there was no opposition to it."

[JurassicTunga12]

Just saw this. wow. Hope Bob and staff gets another job quickly. Flames had their struggles under them. Possession/defense. but he did a lot for Gaudreau, Monahan, Brodie etc.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I am honestly shocked there are so many Hartley supporters with the results in the ice

For me at least, I attributed the results this season more to the goaltending situation than to the coach, which essentially falls on Treliving. I don't think that the coaches did a great job this year adjusting systems, but not sure it warranted a firing given the extent of the goaltending disaster.

That said, I doubt Hartley is the guy to lead the team to a Stanley Cup so I'm kind of meh.

Maybe some of the supporters you're referencing feel the same way.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by heep223

For me at least, I attributed the results this season more to the goaltending situation than to the coach, which essentially falls on Treliving. I don't think that the coaches did a great job this year adjusting systems, but not sure it warranted a firing given the extent of the goaltending disaster.

That said, I doubt Hartley is the guy to lead the team to a Stanley Cup so I'm kind of meh.

Maybe some of the supporters you're referencing feel the same way.

This is exactly it. It's kind of bizarre that Treliving kept the coaches for the top two problems he himself identified.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by getbak

Yeah, this is a team that has had home ice advantage in a playoff series once in the last 20 years. Find a coach who can get the Flames into a position to regularly play a Game 7 at home and then I'll start worrying about losing too many of them.

I'm actually on the side that people shouldn't read too much into Boudreau's playoff record and he's likely a pretty good coach.

But I shudder when people say things like we'll worry about it when we actually get home ice in the playoffs in these types of discussions. I remember that was an argument when we brought in Turek as a starting goalie, people were saying don't worry about his lack of playoff success, we'll worry about that when we get there.

It's not that Boudreau hasn't had playoff success that's really the issue, it's that he hasn't been seen as being able to get his teams "over the hump" or "to the next level". Essentially, when you are coaching the ducks, home ice and playoffs aren't the goals with such a talented roster, it's winning the conference and the cup. And in fairness he failed (although most in pro sports do, very few win). For the Flames, who are not yet the Ducks roster wise, the equivalent of getting Ducks to a cup final is likely getting the Flames into the playoffs consistently. I don't think it's fair to say Boudreau is a good coach at getting his teams to the playoffs as much as it to say that maybe he hasn't gotten the most out of his teams or met expectations. Expectations would be different in Calgary and Anahiem, and at least initially he won't have as good a roster to work with.

[buyakasha]

Any word on Bob's reaction to the firing?

[polak]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

This is exactly it. It's kind of bizarre that Treliving kept the coaches for the top two problems he himself identified.

Maybe they agreed to certain terms/changes that Bob and Jacques wouldn't.

[PuckFather]

Hartley will join Columbus Blue Jackets as assistant coach to John Tortorella.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by heep223

For me at least, I attributed the results this season more to the goaltending situation than to the coach, which essentially falls on Treliving. I don't think that the coaches did a great job this year adjusting systems, but not sure it warranted a firing given the extent of the goaltending disaster.

That said, I doubt Hartley is the guy to lead the team to a Stanley Cup so I'm kind of meh.

Maybe some of the supporters you're referencing feel the same way.

Personally, my #1 issue was with the goal tending as well.

However, a close #2 was the system we played under Hartley. It was just so linear and predictable. We'd spend an entire shift in our zone to get possession, and then our defense would just fire a pass up to the red line, where we would tip the puck (or ice it if it was Russel, Engelland, Smid making the pass), and then go for a change.

Following which, if our change was successful (and we didn't ice the puck), we would then rinse and repeat. The only time we would consistently get pressure up ice was when one of our more skilled forwards would come low for a quick 5 foot pass at the circles, and skate it out (JG, Backlund, Bennett, Monahan). If those guys aren't on the ice, its tip the puck and go for a change time.

Pretty poor system for competing against big Western Conference teams that clog up the neutral zone if you ask me.