The New American Politics thread

[Coach]

Yeah can't disagree about that. Violent uprising might be your only option.

[cal_guy]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

As a president Carter was a disaster, he was far too trusting of a person.

He flubbed the Iranian Crisis.

He trusted Brezhnev on arms control and Brezhnev not only didn't abide by it, but once he had the measure of the American President he invaded Afghanistan.

The Nato leaders had little respect for Carter. I think that the French President had a very dim view of Carter and said it publically.

The American economy plummeted under Carter with Inflation going through the roof as well as unemployment.

He was really not suited to be the president.

He did initiate the deregulation of the transportation industry and the resulting changes to the freight rail and the passenger airline industry are arguably one of the most positive changes to the American economy (and also prodded similar changes to the Canadian transportation industry).

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by Delgar

He bribed universal health care through, and that's an amazing feat given the system he was dealing with. Even if the end product leaves something to be desired, he got it through, a massive accomplishment.

Otherwise I would agree, since then he has been weak including the implementation of the (somewhat) universal health care. The whole NSA thing demonstrates the President is not in control. Pretty scary.

FYP

It was bought and barley passed at that.

[Burke Salad]

My thought is we will never have a great president again. They can be challenged from hell and back, but the industrial/military complex will never allow for greatness again. Not to mention the extreme financial backing out of Hollywood, makes the whole thing a complete joke. Think about these money grubbing people from Hollywood are sticking up for the working man, yet they have no idea what it's like to be a working man!

[Bunk]

Florida:

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Burke Salad

My thought is we will never have a great president again. They can be challenged from hell and back, but the industrial/military complex will never allow for greatness again. Not to mention the extreme financial backing out of Hollywood, makes the whole thing a complete joke. Think about these money grubbing people from Hollywood are sticking up for the working man, yet they have no idea what it's like to be a working man!

I did not know the Koch's were from Hollywood. Who knew?

[Harry Lime]

Am I reading too much into the fact that this graph is upside down?

Also, wasn't part of the American Dream that every parent could tell their child that one day they could grow up to be President? 8 years of VP Bush, 12 years of Pres Bush, 8 years of Clinton, possibly 4-8 years of Clinton coming, and Jeb Bush hiding in the wings. Canada is following suit with bonus Trudeau. It's like no one even cares to pretend that democracy didn't die with Eisenhower anymore.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Burke Salad

My thought is we will never have a great president again. They can be challenged from hell and back, but the industrial/military complex will never allow for greatness again. Not to mention the extreme financial backing out of Hollywood, makes the whole thing a complete joke. Think about these money grubbing people from Hollywood are sticking up for the working man, yet they have no idea what it's like to be a working man!

The Koch brothers finance more for the republicans than both the DNC and RNC combined, let alone what hollywood does for the Dems.

[TorqueDog]

http://news.msn.com/us/rick-perry-wa...ocid=ansnews11

Rick Perry Wants the Feds to Reimburse Texas for Securing the Border

Notable quote: "Those who come must be sent back to demonstrate," that the journey isn't worth it, Perry said. America, he added, needs to send a message that "you cannot come to the United States just because someone is handing out a flyer."

Does this not strike anybody else as incredibly antithetical to what America has seemingly always stood for, the 'land of opportunity'?

Rick Perry is a complete moron.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Rick Perry is a complete moron.

I think that might be the most accurate statement describing anyone ever.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

http://news.msn.com/us/rick-perry-wa...ocid=ansnews11

Rick Perry Wants the Feds to Reimburse Texas for Securing the Border

Notable quote: "Those who come must be sent back to demonstrate," that the journey isn't worth it, Perry said. America, he added, needs to send a message that "you cannot come to the United States just because someone is handing out a flyer."

Does this not strike anybody else as incredibly antithetical to what America has seemingly always stood for, the 'land of opportunity'?

Rick Perry is a complete moron.

It is the historic position of the American electorate. In the 19th century they didn't want Italian or Irish Catholics to immigrate and now they don't want Mexican Catholics to do the same.

150 years ago a tea party styled party tore the Whig party apart based largely on immigration, the same way the tea party is dog ng the same to the GOP now.

Foreigners are scary.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

http://news.msn.com/us/rick-perry-wa...ocid=ansnews11

Rick Perry Wants the Feds to Reimburse Texas for Securing the Border

Notable quote: "Those who come must be sent back to demonstrate," that the journey isn't worth it, Perry said. America, he added, needs to send a message that "you cannot come to the United States just because someone is handing out a flyer."

Does this not strike anybody else as incredibly antithetical to what America has seemingly always stood for, the 'land of opportunity'?

Rick Perry is a complete moron.

Moron he may be, but Texas packs a big stick. Strongest economy in the country, and they have a lot of pull with big business.

Perry has too much influence.

[Rockin' Flames]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

http://news.msn.com/us/rick-perry-wa...ocid=ansnews11

Rick Perry Wants the Feds to Reimburse Texas for Securing the Border

Notable quote: "Those who come must be sent back to demonstrate," that the journey isn't worth it, Perry said. America, he added, needs to send a message that "you cannot come to the United States just because someone is handing out a flyer."

Does this not strike anybody else as incredibly antithetical to what America has seemingly always stood for, the 'land of opportunity'?

Rick Perry is a complete moron.

I would think it would be a "land of opportunity" that come to the country legally. These people are coming up to the US illegally. I don't argue that the laws need to be changed, however, until the laws are changed than the current laws should be followed.

[BigBrodieFan]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I think this poll sums up why the Republican Party is so remarkably successful (besides gerrymandering)



http://news.yahoo.com/u-poll-more-vo...122609810.html

Ignoring the fact Bush is by such a wide margin worse, Reagan the best? Just shows you how low the IQ of the average American voter is, and why Republicans probably won't ever change. Why would they with polls like this?

While I can understand your rationale (I mean, watch any news broadcast and the random interviews with people standing by make the US population look like toothless, inarticulate bums- it's comical really), you're not exactly 'getting' to the point.

It's easy for a person in another country who probably leans towards liberalism to automatically assume Republicans are evil and stupid and money grubbers. There is a lot of truth to this. However, Democrats are really no better. They pretend to be concerned 'for the people' and focus on issues that will affect the poor, but when it comes right down to it- politicians are all the same.

Politicians might choose a side (conservative/small government/big religion) or (liberal/more government assistance/no religion)- but either side really only wants one thing- which is power. A true politician will take power over wealth or money any day. A true politician plays the game of SPIN and will do whatever it takes for the vote- whether it's a patriotic bs ploy to install a puppet government in a country we have no business being in (Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan), or whether it's a ploy to pretend to care about health care for Americans when in reality, you've made the situation much worse for most of the people who were having problems with health care costs in the first place (middle class Americans, 'Affordable Health Care').

Each side DEPENDS on the 'lower IQ' of the American voter- which is why they campaign specifically to those who have less education and live in ignorance. Obama campaigned to get the minority vote- many minorities didn't really vote beforehand but the truth is, he played the black card (which is all reality was very smart of him). Bush played the 'Merica' card and counted on rednecks and gun toting idiots to vote for him for a second term because 'He was gonna get Saddam'- which essentially from a political standpoint was brilliant. Reagan played the 'Jimmy Carter is a softie card and I am a hardass' which again, was brilliant.

Politicians, regardless which side they are on, ALWAYS run of the current emotions and empathy of the people in the United States. NONE of them really give a crap about any of 'the people.' They just play a game in Washington which, they are in fact, very good at if elected to such high offices. They are in summary, professional liars- professional bs artists and people who devote their entire life to trying to portray what others want them to be- at any given time. This is why every politician, from Obama to Cheney to Clinton to Bush- has been videotaped saying one thing and later shown to say exactly the opposite.

Politicians are the best actors in the world. To say one party is better than the other or to say that Americans' IQ is low because they elected George Bush is touching on the bigger picture- we continue to let a bunch of POWER hungry criminals run the country- regardless of their political party- and it will NEVER get better because the two party system allows for flip flopping of platform ideology every 4-8 years. They ALL continue to feed off of the current fickle American public's issues. Right now of course, the liberals feed off the disgusting gun violence situation, where the republicans feed off the disgusting people who say they need weapons to defend themselves. Right now the idiot conservatives feed off Obama pulling troops out of the middle east, when of course it was their idea in the first place. The democrats feed off the fact that Obama is doing what he's supposed to which is ending the war overseas, but it's not going so well. One side will always ignore the flaws of their own party. One side will always promote the flaws of the other. It's a lose/lose situation.

The political system in the United States in broken for every ideology, and both political parties. There is no 'one side better than the other.' They are equally criminal and the American voters are ALL to blame for allowing it to continue and for developing the attitude of what I like to call 'majority ambivalence.'

Done my rant.

[nik-]

It's all fine and good to say both sides are the same BBF, but I'm pretty sure there's only one party who has denial of rights to certain segments of the population as part of their party platform.

They're not the same.

[BigBrodieFan]

Originally Posted by nik-

It's all fine and good to say both sides are the same BBF, but I'm pretty sure there's only one party who has denial of rights to certain segments of the population as part of their party platform.

They're not the same.

The entire problem in this country is choosing one side over another. Until we start realizing they indeed ARE both equally culpable and felonious, the United States will continue into the downward spiral it's currently in.

The Canadian system, albeit flawed, has much more room for change and progression. Three political parties give voters more of a choice, and the Westminster style federal parliamentary democracy within a constitutional monarchy allows for passage and advancement.

Although the 'people in the United States' talk big about a third political party, the truth simply is that it's not going to happen with our passive voters- and BOTH political parties rely on it. They know that the outcome will be statistical. Third parties may have statistically significant support (maybe 15 percent of voters in every district supports a third party, however in the current American system, the third party may well not win any seats,and will not win any time soon). So those voters will likely join with another party and look for a 'compromise candidate' that could represent them. In other words- they settle.

That being said, again- the entire political system here in the US is based on a voter either 1) being an idiot and thinking one party is better than another or 2) a voter compromising their true, rational beliefs and voting for the person who they think would represent their viewpoint better than the other.

Of course, each political party will garner support from the 'idiots' so to speak- and then they will rely on swaying the vote from those who will 'probably' vote for them, simply because there is no other representative.

You may not see it- not sure if you're here or in Canada, and it's natural if you're in a country which is far more liberal (ie, abortion laws, gay rights, gun laws) to assume that the Republican party is 'the worst' so people should 'settle for' the Democrats (who seem to be more compassionate, so let's go with the more humane choice). Neither of these parties care, nor represent the American people. They are indeed, both the same- equally worthless, ignominious, corrupt and villainous.

The biggest mistake people in the world can possibly make is getting caught up in what the political parties are 'supposed' to represent, and not seeing the forest through the trees, so to speak.

(Not trying to argue, just stating my opinion)

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by BigBrodieFan

The entire problem in this country is choosing one side over another. Until we start realizing they indeed ARE both equally culpable and felonious, the United States will continue into the downward spiral it's currently in.

Only they aren't equally culpable and felonious. Both sides are full of idiots, that is for certain, and the two-party system is a disaster.

But the GOP is just miles ahead of Democrats in terms of how awful they are. GOP leaders are attacking Obama over the VA scandal--months after they all voted against a bill that Democrats put on the table that would've helped with VA hospital issues. They argue that Obama doesn't support the troops--but they've blocked bills that would help veterans find jobs upon returning home. They are on a crusade to make Roe v. Wade utterly useless by using bureaucracy to close abortion hospitals in one state after another. They refuse to acknowledge the reality of climate change, they try to force creationism as fact rather than evolution. They pushed to make corporate entities have the same rights as human beings. They made it their party platform to stop any and all efforts of President Obama to do his job.

Democrats are corrupt as well, and big money is ruining the political structure in this country, but to say both sides are equally as awful is just not even close to accurate.

[BigBrodieFan]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

Only they aren't equally culpable and felonious. Both sides are full of idiots, that is for certain, and the two-party system is a disaster.

But the GOP is just miles ahead of Democrats in terms of how awful they are. GOP leaders are attacking Obama over the VA scandal--months after they all voted against a bill that Democrats put on the table that would've helped with VA hospital issues. They argue that Obama doesn't support the troops--but they've blocked bills that would help veterans find jobs upon returning home. They are on a crusade to make Roe v. Wade utterly useless by using bureaucracy to close abortion hospitals in one state after another. They refuse to acknowledge the reality of climate change, they try to force creationism as fact rather than evolution. They pushed to make corporate entities have the same rights as human beings. They made it their party platform to stop any and all efforts of President Obama to do his job.

Democrats are corrupt as well, and big money is ruining the political structure in this country, but to say both sides are equally as awful is just not even close to accurate.

I will agree and commend your knowledge of the corrupt GOP.

So- not sure if you're Canadian or not (I am but I live in the US)- having said all of the terrible things about the GOP and also adhering to the fact that the Democrats are corrupt- would you vote Democrat because you'll settle for 'corrupt' over the inhumane?

If you say no- you'd vote Independent- then you know for a fact that won't do you any good.

If you say yes, you'd vote democrat because they 'aren't as bad' as the Republicans, then you're part of the problem. (Not you personally- but you're part of the problem of the two party system).


Look- again- my point is- and I don't 'argue' or call people names, etc- that people from Canada or other socialist/liberal countries are more apt to be sympathetic to the Democratic party. It's just human nature. But for everything a Republican idiot politician president has done, I can counter with the actions of a Democratic idiot politician or president. Until Americans figure out that the founding fathers of this country did not ever see any of us being forced to do things like pay penalties for not paying for healthcare or be forced to participate in garbage wars, until we decide to 'dump the tea in the ocean' for lack of a better analogy- we will continue to see Americans and allies die overseas, we will continue to see people go broke to pay health insurance, we will continue to be overtaxed and pay taxes to things we don't even know we're paying- we will continue to be told who we can marry and what we can do with our bodies-we will continue to watch our children and innocent people get shot and killed at schools, churches, post offices, army bases- we will continue to allow the same people in the same neighbourhoods to sell drugs and form gangs- we will continue apologize for our past and pay the lazy and 'unwilling to work' and sponge off the entity that encourages passivity and blind following. This country is broken, and like it or not- Obama is just another idiot who is a big part of the problem, and the Republican who replaces him will be just as bad (and it WILL be a Republican because people are tired of Democrats at this time). 4-8 years ago, we'll start all over again- if we have anything left.

Off soap box- sorry for the rant

[Azure]

Obama isn't the problem, just like Bush wasn't the problem, or Clinton wasn't the problem, or any other President before then. Congress is the problem as has been for years.

All the good any President wants to do they corrupt, and replace it with their heavily influenced and paid for by big business policies.

Until THAT changes, nothing will be fixed.

[Vulcan]

Not sure if this has been posted before but

But, ..." and then they go on to say, it's not true, and that, "America's claims to being a democratic society are seriously threatened" by the findings in this, the first-ever comprehensive scientific study of the subject, which shows that there is instead "the nearly total failure of 'median voter' and other Majoritarian Electoral Democracy theories [of America]. When the preferences of economic elites and the stands of organized interest groups are controlled for, the preferences of the average American appear to have only a minuscule, near-zero, statistically non-significant impact upon public policy."

To put it short: The United States is no democracy, but actually an oligarchy.

https://www.commondreams.org/view/2014/04/14