2012-2013 Toronto Blue Jays Off Season Thread

[TitovFTW]

Originally Posted by you got PHANUEFED

Next trade will be flipping J.J and JPA to TEX for Kinsler and Holland.

Zero chance of that.

[moon]

Originally Posted by you got PHANUEFED

Next trade will be flipping J.J and JPA to TEX for Kinsler and Holland.

That seems like a pretty crappy deal for Texas.

[dustyanddaflames]

If we are in fantasy land - I'd like to see JPA land us Mike Olt out of Texas, and shift Lawrie back to 2nd base.

[TitovFTW]

I don't see the Jays moving JPA at all this offseason to be quite honest. Through my own ignorance, I did not realize how awful John Buck's 2011-2012 season was. It was beyond brutal. I don't think the Jays plan is to bring in Travis D'Arnaud and have him as their opening day catcher, coming off an injury, without a single major league at bat. Also, what type of value does JPA really have? I don't think he would get you nothing in return, especially when we look at the landscape of major league catchers. He's got pop in his bat and that's a nice thing to have in your 8th or 9th spot. I could see the Jays getting a strong bullpen arm for him, but they don't need that at all right now. Your not going to get an everyday outfielder or 1B/DH. He also doesn't have much value in a package deal because he's not really a trade asset unless he's going to a team that really needs to fill that position. I think he's back as a Blue Jay and the opening day catcher without question as of right now. One eye on the present, one on the future. His value is not going to go down this season and that way you don't rush your best position player prospect.

The more I look at this trade, the more I don't mind it at all for the Marlins. Now that does not make me like it any less for the Blue Jays. There's no way you were going to be able to make upgrades of this magnitude anyway else. The Jays got massive upgrades here. But the Marlins dumped a lot of money, they were a team going nowhere, and they got a nice pool of young talent in return. From a baseball side of things, the trade works out for both teams. The initial reaction last night was to laugh at the Marlins because we never did get a good grasp of who was going the other way, and the entire list of Marlins coming to the Jays. The tough thing for the Marlins is however that it's going to be impossible to sign free agents now, the fan base is going to have no reason to support them and how do you motivate your current talent to be energized for the upcoming season?

[Jason14h]

That seems like a pretty crappy deal for Texas.

I think Kinsler has negative value. Texas would gladly give him away for nothing right now I imagine

[bluejays]

Titov, at the back of my mind, I think you're right about JPA staying, though my personal opinion is that AA is fielding offers for the guy (rightfully), and will definitely find a suitor for him because of his above average pop. There is always a market for catchers with potential. Now, straight up, I'd only deal JPA for a definite 2nd starter, or in a package for an ace. Getting a LFer or a 2nd baseman wouldn't be worth him because there are way too many mediocre ones out there. One thing I would not want under any circumstances, is D'Arnaud being pushed in as their go to future, this year. He may be good soon, but they have to ease him in. If they do deal JPA, Buck will be good for a few weeks, but another stop gap vet with a better average should be dealt for, but I do think the catching position is one where they can chince on.

[TitovFTW]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

I think Kinsler has negative value. Texas would gladly give him away for nothing right now I imagine

I'm not sure why Texas would even think of giving up on Ian Kinsler. His contract is a lengthy one but he was a 7 WAR player in 2010-2011!!! Even last year when he had a down year he was a 2 WAR player and above average defense. Ian Kinsler is really realllly good.

[moon]

Originally Posted by TitovFTW

I'm not sure why Texas would even think of giving up on Ian Kinsler. His contract is a lengthy one but he was a 7 WAR player in 2010-2011!!! Even last year when he had a down year he was a 2 WAR player and above average defense. Ian Kinsler is really realllly good.

I assume his post was meant to be in green text.

[Glorious #1]

Originally Posted by dustyanddaflames

If we are in fantasy land - I'd like to see JPA land us Mike Olt out of Texas, and shift Lawrie back to 2nd base.

I'm going to assume you already know this as you prefaced your statement with "If we are in fantasy land..." but Lawrie will never be an everyday second basemen. He provides great defence at third base, no reason to move him over. None. Why would we acquire an even more unproven defender/hitter to supplant him?

Yes I know Lawrie played second in the minors, that being said there is a reason he isn't playing there anymore.

[TitovFTW]

Originally Posted by moon

I assume his post was meant to be in green text.

Yeah....that was quite an embarrassing response from me lol

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Shi Davidi ‏@ShiDavidi
#Jays blockbuster w/ Marlins may not be announced til Thurs as physicals for 12 players a process. Josh Johnson in Fla right now getting his

Shi Davidi ‏@ShiDavidi
Matt Sosnick, JJ's agent: “He’s thrilled, he’s really excited. He told me, ‘I really feel like we have a good chance of winning the AL.’”

[Senator Clay Davis]

Prospects are exactly that: prospects. Sure some of the guys they trade could end up being All-Stars or better...or they could end up being benchwarmers. The players the Jays got back are legitimate, proven MLB players and in Johnson and Reyes, guys who have been borderline elite in the past. For a long time the Jays and their fans have been living on the hope some of the prospects would develop, and now they have proven guys they can believe in.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Prospects are exactly that: prospects. Sure some of the guys they trade could end up being All-Stars or better...or they could end up being benchwarmers. The players the Jays got back are legitimate, proven MLB players and in Johnson and Reyes, guys who have been borderline elite in the past. For a long time the Jays and their fans have been living on the hope some of the prospects would develop, and now they have proven guys they can believe in.

Exactly. And if the Jays ever wanted to compete for a title during Bautista's window, they had to make a move. The prospects weren't going to be ready in time.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Yep, and the great thing is that the Jays still have some nice prospects in the system, it's not like AA gutted the cupboards to get this deal done. Great timing for a huge trade. Makes the team better and reinvigorates the fan base.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I'll be curious to see how much season ticket sales spike. With the NHL being what it is right now, there's a big opportunity for the Jays.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

Exactly. And if the Jays ever wanted to compete for a title during Bautista's window, they had to make a move. The prospects weren't going to be ready in time.

Yeah, my thoughts were that if they didn't land a couple of pitchers and a couple of better bats, that they might as well deal off guys like Bautista, Morrow, and maybe Encarnacion. Moreso Bautista given his age. This move does at least appear to give them a chance on paper to compete. Johnson is the key piece, if he can pitch a full season effectively, you know Beurhle will eat innings and take a lot of pressure off Romero and Morrow.

As for those who say Reyes is a risk with his contract...Vernon Wells was still able to be traded with a worse contract, and I think anyone would take Reyes over Wells. Reyes when healthy can be a 4-5 WAR player.

[dustyanddaflames]

Originally Posted by Glorious #1

I'm going to assume you already know this as you prefaced your statement with "If we are in fantasy land..." but Lawrie will never be an everyday second basemen. He provides great defence at third base, no reason to move him over. None. Why would we acquire an even more unproven defender/hitter to supplant him?

Yes I know Lawrie played second in the minors, that being said there is a reason he isn't playing there anymore.

As I said, we are talking pure "fantasyland" talk - but if you can solidfy your infield, which we are still missing an everyday second baseman, then I ask why you wouldn't entertain something like this? I don't recall Lawrie shifting to third base because he couldn't handle second, but more of a need that the Blue Jays needed filled (Bautista freed up to RF, Edwin to DH/1B).

I am not even saying it has to be Mike Olt, even though he looks to be a pretty nice prospect w/ solid power, or a 3B for that matter. But why not look for something that is going to be an everyday player for you club if you are trading one away?

[dustyanddaflames]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Yeah, my thoughts were that if they didn't land a couple of pitchers and a couple of better bats, that they might as well deal off guys like Bautista, Morrow, and maybe Encarnacion. Moreso Bautista given his age. This move does at least appear to give them a chance on paper to compete. Johnson is the key piece, if he can pitch a full season effectively, you know Beurhle will eat innings and take a lot of pressure off Romero and Morrow.

As for those who say Reyes is a risk with his contract...Vernon Wells was still able to be traded with a worse contract, and I think anyone would take Reyes over Wells. Reyes when healthy can be a 4-5 WAR player.

Well said, and maybe the most important part of acquiring these two arms... Wins aside, getting Buehrle and Johnson might be the biggest factor in getting Romero back to his 2011 stat line.

[howard_the_duck]

Reyes gets a bad wrap for being an injury prone player.

It was really only the 2009 season where he missed substantial time. Beyond that he's played in at least 126 games in every season he's been a regular.

I'm giddy at the prospects of him at the top of the Jays lineup. The guy only struck out 56 times last year - Arencibia does that in a month!

A table setter like Reyes is exactly what the Jays offense has been lacking. I had been waiting to get a new Jays uniform because I couldn't decide on the player I wanted, but I think it will be Mr. Reyes I end up getting.

[KelVarnsen]

I don't think moving Lawrie to 2B is a good idea, he only spent 1 year at that position before moving to 3rd. Not sure how he would do at 2nd.