Alberta PC's way out front

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

I see an interesting dynamic in this thread. Slava on the centre-left, making patient, rational arguments.

Meanwhile the posters representing the right continually resort to name calling and personal attacks.

Is the right incapable of polite, rational argument or has it's culture devolved to the point where civil debate is impossible?

I think everyone views their own beliefs as being more rational than others. Whether or not Slava's arguements are in fact rational and make sense depend on whether you buy into the assumptions that underpin them.

The problem where polite arguement goes out the window is when one starts labelling people who believe in certain beliefs as espousing certain other characteristics outside of said beliefs. In this case you try to describe centre-left personalities as virtuous and right wing personalities as vicious. I find your quoted post as doing nothing to support civility but rather supporting and taking part in the very culture you are lamenting.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

I see an interesting dynamic in this thread. Slava on the centre-left, making patient, rational arguments.

Meanwhile the posters representing the right continually resort to name calling and personal attacks.

Is the right incapable of polite, rational argument or has it's culture devolved to the point where civil debate is impossible?

I would find your comments worth consideration if they weren't so hypocritical. Your sole purpose in this thread thus far has been to hurl ad hominem attacks at the right. I respect Slava's POV, even if I think he's forwarded some arguments with logical holes large enough to drive a tank through. But if we were to use you as an example of "the left", then we have a pretty good idea of why the two defined left wing parties would consider winning five seats total to be a good result at this point.

[Slava]

Who thinks that winning 2-3 seats and losing official party status is a good result? I don't think that any party is thinking that way, save for maybe the Evergreens or Alberta Party where it would be enormous.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by First Lady

Which is surprising, given how much Nenshi support there was on this forum.

Well, I support both Nenshi and the WRA.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I would find your comments worth consideration if they weren't so hypocritical. Your sole purpose in this thread thus far has been to hurl ad hominem attacks at the right. I respect Slava's POV, even if I think he's forwarded some arguments with logical holes large enough to drive a tank through. But if we were to use you as an example of "the left", then we have a pretty good idea of why the two defined left wing parties would consider winning five seats total to be a good result at this point.

And there is Resolute 14 with Exhibit 1. You sir are the most arrogant, offensive and condescending poster of the bunch. Whether here or in the FOI forum, it seems you are incapable of civil discourse.

I do acknowledge your point that I too often have stooped to the level of name-calling which is why I have essentially stopped posting in this thread. Slava has the patience of Job. I don't, so I've stepped back. It hasn't improved the level of discourse though.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

I think everyone views their own beliefs as being more rational than others. Whether or not Slava's arguements are in fact rational and make sense depend on whether you buy into the assumptions that underpin them.

The problem where polite arguement goes out the window is when one starts labelling people who believe in certain beliefs as espousing certain other characteristics outside of said beliefs. In this case you try to describe centre-left personalities as virtuous and right wing personalities as vicious. I find your quoted post as doing nothing to support civility but rather supporting and taking part in the very culture you are lamenting.

I'm not going to get into it, but if you read the discussions of the past couple of days, I think you'd find I'm not making a sweeping generalization. I'm referring to specific posts and posters. Jacks and darklord700 come to mind as being posters that seem incapable of exchanging opinions without making it personal or taking it personally.

I admire the fact that Slava can reply to the nastiest of posters with an even-handed argument and without 'returning fire'.

IMO, Slava sets a fine example of how to make one's point while remaining civil. It's an example other posters, including myself, should try to follow.

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Jacks and darklord700 come to mind as being posters that seem incapable of exchanging opinions without making it personal or taking it personally.

Don't know I have fans here. I admit I'm an ugly extreme capitalist that as long as I can dine lobster and steak everyday, I could care less how many people are living on the streets homeless.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

And there is Resolute 14 with Exhibit 1. You sir are the most arrogant, offensive and condescending poster of the bunch. Whether here or in the FOI forum, it seems you are incapable of civil discourse.

I do acknowledge your point that I too often have stooped to the level of name-calling which is why I have essentially stopped posting in this thread. Slava has the patience of Job. I don't, so I've stepped back. It hasn't improved the level of discourse though.

Originally Posted by longsuffering

I'm not going to get into it, but if you read the discussions of the past couple of days, I think you'd find I'm not making a sweeping generalization. I'm referring to specific posts and posters. Jacks and darklord700 come to mind as being posters that seem incapable of exchanging opinions without making it personal or taking it personally.

I admire the fact that Slava can reply to the nastiest of posters with an even-handed argument and without 'returning fire'.

IMO, Slava sets a fine example of how to make one's point while remaining civil. It's an example other posters, including myself, should try to follow.

longsuffering is easily my favorite poster on CP all of a sudden!

[GP_Matt]

Before this post

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Meanwhile the posters representing the right continually resort to name calling and personal attacks.

You have posted three times in this thread.

Originally Posted by longsuffering

It's baffling to me how otherwise intelligent people are so eager to throw their support behind our province's version of the ultra-conservative wing of the Republican Party. Gingrich and Santorum would feel at home in the WRA.

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Great. The WRA supporters have decided there's not enough ridiculous over-reaction and hyperbole on the OT Forum, so they've trying to make this thread more like the "Trade Rumours" thread.

Originally Posted by longsuffering

I DID give you credit for being otherwise intelligent ......

You seem to be quite bothered by the posting style of others but I am not sure you contribute much to the thread aside from name calling and big generalizations. I took the time to read the Liberal platform and point out which points I take issue with, feel free to read the Wildrose platform and let us know how you think it compares to the platforms of Gingrich and Santorum. Or defend the Liberal policies if you think they are the best plan for our future.

I thought this thread was pretty civil although it would be nice to see some PC supporters chime in with their constructive views.

[troutman]

Now, the world don't move to the beat of just one drum,
What might be right for you, may not be right for some.
A man is born, he's a man of means.
Then along come two, they got nothing but their jeans.

But they got, Diff'rent Strokes.
It takes, Diff'rent Strokes.
It takes, Diff'rent Strokes to move the world.

-The Wisdom Of Alan Thicke

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by darklord700

Don't know I have fans here. I admit I'm an ugly extreme capitalist that as long as I can dine lobster and steak everyday, I could care less how many people are living on the streets homeless.

You dress like the monopoly guy too right?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Slava

Who thinks that winning 2-3 seats and losing official party status is a good result? I don't think that any party is thinking that way, save for maybe the Evergreens or Alberta Party where it would be enormous.

Based on the polls and how spread out their support is? Five seats is about the realistic top end - depending on what the next PC controversy is. But that just goes to show (yet again) how badly we need electoral reform.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Based on the polls and how spread out their support is? Five seats is about the realistic top end - depending on what the next PC controversy is. But that just goes to show (yet again) how badly we need electoral reform.

If the Wildrose gets about 25% they could end up with a handful of seats as well. They might not even be official opposition, depending on how the concentration works out.

On 308 he gives seat projections and the top end for the Liberals alone was 6, so I'm not sure how you see a top end of a few. Realistically I think that the bottom end of the Liberals is three. Kent Hehr, David Swann and Laurie Blakeman if you want specifics.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Slava

If the Wildrose gets about 25% they could end up with a handful of seats as well. They might not even be official opposition, depending on how the concentration works out.

On 308 he gives seat projections and the top end for the Liberals alone was 6, so I'm not sure how you see a top end of a few. Realistically I think that the bottom end of the Liberals is three. Kent Hehr, David Swann and Laurie Blakeman if you want specifics.

I think Mountain View might actually be in for a change this time round.

The WRP candidate, Shane McAllister, was one of our first nominated and has a huge time advantage on the other non-incumbents.

The PC candidate, Cecilia Low, is running on what can best be described as an open liberal campaign. In fact she fully admits at the door that she identifies more with the Liberals, but feels she can only win on the PC ticket.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by First Lady

I think Mountain View might actually be in for a change this time round.

The WRP candidate, Shane McAllister, was one of our first nominated and has a huge time advantage on the other non-incumbents.

The PC candidate, Cecilia Low, is running on what can best be described as an open liberal campaign. In fact she fully admits at the door that she identifies more with the Liberals, but feels she can only win on the PC ticket.

Swann is the one who I think is in the toughest, but he is very popular in his riding. I would imagine he wins with the WRA/PC vote split.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Slava

Swann is the one who I think is in the toughest, but he is very popular in his riding. I would imagine he wins with the WRA/PC vote split.

Or Swann and the liberal PC candidate vote split and Shane comes up the middle.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Well, I support both Nenshi and the WRA.

Yeah, I know of one other CP'er who has the same leanings. Interesting.

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Based on the polls and how spread out their support is? Five seats is about the realistic top end - depending on what the next PC controversy is. But that just goes to show (yet again) how badly we need electoral reform.

Five is probably the low end. Herh, Swann, Blakeman, Notley and Mason are almost slam dunks to get re-elected.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

But that just goes to show (yet again) how badly we need electoral reform.

Couldn't agree more. Maybe the WRA is what's needed to finally get people talking about this. That would be quite the silver lining.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Jacks and darklord700 come to mind as being posters that seem incapable of exchanging opinions without making it personal or taking it personally.

What? when did I attack anyone personally?