[PGT] Fire Ward and trade Bennett

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by 868904

This is all you need to see that this team has tuned out Ward.

This sounds just like the complaints on here about Gulutzan. I'm not defending Ward but at some point this core needs to be dealt with. At some point I'd think one of the key guys needs to be moved out. Monahan maybe. Gaudreau maybe. Bennett needs to go for sure imo.

[MillerTime GFG]

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not defending saying Ward and his system hasn’t played a role in all of this. Definitely has. But to say that all professional athletes give it 100% all the time is naive.

I think we have a lethally bad combination. A roster that has many guys with low compete levels, combined with a terrible coach and system.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

https://twitter.com/user/status/1362988233949241347

This tweet is so sensationalized. Going back 20 years, even though the 90s had Paige and B. Sutter.

D. Sutter > Playfair > Keenan > Br Sutter > Hartley > GG > Peters > Ward.

That is the list going back 20 years. Funny thing is that hiring a Gallant or Boudreau wouldn't fit the tweeters criteria of directly from another team.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

This sounds just like the complaints on here about Gulutzan. I'm not defending Ward but at some point this core needs to be dealt with. At some point I'd think one of the key guys needs to be moved out. Monahan maybe. Gaudreau maybe. Bennett needs to go for sure imo.

And after Gulutzan got canned the team had the most points in the West.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by BagoPucks

I am actually surprised at little conversation is being had about how bad Gio has been. We should probably keep it that way so Tre can find a taker but objectively he has been horrible.

I doubt that opposing GM’s read teams’ message boards to scout opposing players LOL. I’m guess they actually watch the player and make their own assessment.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

This sounds just like the complaints on here about Gulutzan. I'm not defending Ward but at some point this core needs to be dealt with. At some point I'd think one of the key guys needs to be moved out. Monahan maybe. Gaudreau maybe. Bennett needs to go for sure imo.

There are 6 players left on this roster from when Gulutzan coached here.

Gio, Tkachuk, Monahan, Gaudreau, Backlund, Bennett.

The entire d-core, half of the forwards, and both goalies are new since GG was coach.

Sure maybe moving one of Gio, Monahan, or Gaudreau becomes the medicine for this team and fixes the so called “culture” problems.

But to me it’s more likely that both Ward and Gulutzan are just bad head coaches that were never anything more than career assistant coaches.

The last 6 Flames coaches (soon to be 7 with Ward) never got an NHL head coaching job after leaving Calgary. This is a league where head coaches are consistently recycled, so IMO that’s very telling about the quality of coaches the Flames have hired since Darryl Sutter moved to be GM only.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by MillerTime GFG

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not defending saying Ward and his system hasn’t played a role in all of this. Definitely has. But to say that all professional athletes give it 100% all the time is naive.

I think we have a lethally bad combination. A roster that has many guys with low compete levels, combined with a terrible coach and system.

Sure players have off games but this is beyond a 1-2 game stretch. Sure if a team goes out and gets blown out one night, then sure that’s a game where there was probably a lack of effort.

But there is no way an entire team looks as lifeless as they have for the first 17 games of this season, and really the entire season last year because of lack of effort. Just not happening.

The system they are being asked to play has them playing passive and reactive and that makes players look slow and like they are chasing the game.

[Owen15]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

This sounds just like the complaints on here about Gulutzan. I'm not defending Ward but at some point this core needs to be dealt with. At some point I'd think one of the key guys needs to be moved out. Monahan maybe. Gaudreau maybe. Bennett needs to go for sure imo.

Sadly have to agree. The one consistent attribute is the core of this team. Like many I was disappointed with Gaudreau and Monahan last playoff. But they’ve actually been pretty ok so far this year. Not awesome but pretty ok.

Ward is also a problem though.

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

There are 6 players left on this roster from when Gulutzan coached here.

Gio, Tkachuk, Monahan, Gaudreau, Backlund, Bennett.

Well yeah, that's my point. This same group was around then and now. Again, I'm not saying Ward is a great coach. I wouldn't have hired him but I'd be really surprised if he gets fired anytime soon.

[Red]

Originally Posted by MillerTime GFG

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not defending saying Ward and his system hasn’t played a role in all of this. Definitely has. But to say that all professional athletes give it 100% all the time is naive.

I think we have a lethally bad combination. A roster that has many guys with low compete levels, combined with a terrible coach and system.

NHL playoffs are a proof of players effort during the grind of a long season. That's when effort levels are raised.

Also the fact that there are no easy wins. A last place team can beat a top team when effort levels don't match skillsets.

No team has all players give a 100% on a given night. Players have ups and downs. Ours have too many downs.

[Mattman]

I wonder if COVID protocol would have anything to do with firing a coach or a GM. Just like trading someone they would have to quarantine for 2 weeks.

If we don't have a coach or GM for two weeks that might be a wash on th season, but honestly having Conroy and Gelinas step in for a second couldn't be any worse than it is now.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

And after Gulutzan got canned the team had the most points in the West.

Hartley got 97 points and then the next year they tuned him out and he went to 77. After Hartley got canned GG took them up to 94 points and a PO spot. Then they tuned him out, sagged to 84 and he got fired. Then Peters took them to 107 and again a PO spot (and the first round exit felt worse). The next year they were mediocre and starting to tune out Peters - they were always win 2 lose 2 and right before he was fired they’d gone on a 6 game losing streak - at Peters’ .500 rate they were going to miss the POs. And Ward immediately went on a 7 game winning streak, and had another similar streak which resulted in (a) a play-in win and (b) a first round exit that at least more competitive, up 3-0 and should have been 4-0 but for a few seconds. And now they’ve tuned out Ward.

So they’ve tuned out an ass kicker who coached a weird stretch pass game, a nice guy who coached a Babcock style, an ass kicker who coached a forecheck and fast transition game, and now Ward.

[Red]

Coaches have been fired withiut a replacement in the past. The assistants step in. Same for GMs.

Bill Peters is the most recent example. Covid should not change that.

[Badgers Nose]

Ward is doing everything he can, which isn't enough because he is not elite. But Tre hired him, and all the other ####ty coaches too. We will end this generation of the Flames never really knowing what their maximum potential was because of the succession of mediocre coaches.

The Bennett thing looks bad on Tre. He is a bust, is making noises for a change of scenery, get what you can and move on. Who cares how high he was drafted. It feels like even Edmonton moved on faster from Yakupov than we are with Sam.

For those that say this core is not right, yes the stats and results support your case. Getting the right team assembled is the GM's job.

Therefore I'd add Tre to the title of the post too.

This rudderless mess is 100% his fault. The buck has to stop somewhere.

Time for some drastic serious changes to this roster and if that fails rebuild.

[Red]

Problem with firing Ward is Treliving's ego. Hiring Ward made no sense from day 1. Treliving put his reputation on the line here.

This is a guy that whiffed on every coaching move here. Admittting to yet another mistake this early must be pretty hard. It's understandable. Human factors still exist in those circles.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Hartley got 97 points and then the next year they tuned him out and he went to 77. After Hartley got canned GG took them up to 94 points and a PO spot. Then they tuned him out, sagged to 84 and he got fired. Then Peters took them to 107 and again a PO spot (and the first round exit felt worse). The next year they were mediocre and starting to tune out Peters - they were always win 2 lose 2 and right before he was fired they’d gone on a 6 game losing streak - at Peters’ .500 rate they were going to miss the POs. And Ward immediately went on a 7 game winning streak, and had another similar streak which resulted in (a) a play-in win and (b) a first round exit that at least more competitive, up 3-0 and should have been 4-0 but for a few seconds. And now they’ve tuned out Ward.

So they’ve tuned out an ass kicker who coached a weird stretch pass game, a nice guy who coached a Babcock style, an ass kicker who coached a forecheck and fast transition game, and now Ward.

I'm not saying to keep the core intact forever. I'm saying the coaching is the easier problem to address right now. Ok yeah sure they tune out coaches after a year and have maybe tuned out Ward. So why keep Ward then? Bring in a coach now and save the season, then get rid of the problem players in the offseason.

It has to be a better alternative than the team playing this boring, ugly brand of hockey right now.

[Mattman]

Originally Posted by Red

Coaches have been fired withiut a replacement in the past. The assistants step in. Same for GMs.

Bill Peters is the most recent example. Covid should not change that.

I know but I would assume that the owners would like to meet a GM in person and not just over Zoom.

[Iggy_12]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

The team that each of us have arbitrarily chosen to cheer for in the sportings has no reflection on us at all. If you are feeling embarrassed you are taking it too seriously
It’s also easily solved if you truly do feel that way
The only time I’ve felt embarrassed to be a fan of a team is when they acted in objectionable ways away from the game.

Very fair. I meant more in the sense when people ask me who I cheer for it makes me sad to say the flames hahaha.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Red

Coaches have been fired withiut a replacement in the past. The assistants step in. Same for GMs.

Bill Peters is the most recent example. Covid should not change that.

This is true, but lots of people are talking about guys like Boudreau or Gallant, and they would have to quarantine. I suspect that’s not as big a deal to the Flames as it is to them. Plus, their families might not care to do it and they’d end up being along for the rest of the season.

So Ward might go (but I don’t think Gelinas would be the replacement). I suspect it would be Huska (who wasn’t a Ward/Peters man - he predated them).

But I don;t think there’s an outside replacement coming this season.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Mattman

I know but I would assume that the owners would like to meet a GM in person and not just over Zoom.

I can see that. This would only be a problem with a person from outside of Canada though. Or is business travel allowed right now? I'm not even sure.