2016 NHL Draft

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Nylander isn't on the list so I don't know if it's a ranking thing and maybe more just profiling some of the top RW's before the draft.

Nylander can play either wing. Perhaps they view him as a left wing?

[FCAV]

For those looking for a little more insight on some of the views we have on players, we've started to roll out our #ScoutSeries articles, which highlight an NHL Draft eligible who impressed, disappointed, and surprised.

First of which came from one of our Western guys, and can be viewed here (features Noah Gregor and Matthew Phillips as standouts): http://futureconsiderations.ca/grego...-scout-froese/

[sureLoss]

Brock Otten's final top 10 from the OHL as voted on by the media/scouts. Comments are worth the read

http://ohlprospects.blogspot.ca/2016...-for-2016.html

1. Matthew Tkachuk - Forward - London Knights
Total Votes: 19
High/Low: 1st (15x)/2nd (4x)

2. Jakob Chychrun - Defence - Sarnia Sting
Total Votes: 19
High/Low: 1st (2x)/6th (3x)

3. Alex Nylander - Forward - Mississauga Steelheads
Total Votes: 19
High/Low: 2nd (5x)/6th (2x)

4. Mikhail Sergachev - Defence - Windsor Spitfires
Total Votes: 19
High/Low: 2nd (6x)/8th (1x)

5. Olli Juolevi - Defence - London Knights
Total Votes: 19
High/Low: 1st (1x)/8th (1x)

6. Logan Brown - Forward - Windsor Spitfires
Total Votes: 19
High/Low: 1st (1x)/8th (3x)

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Brock Otten's final top 10 from the OHL as voted on by the media/scouts. Comments are worth the read

http://ohlprospects.blogspot.ca/2016...-for-2016.html

Super interesting, I love Brock Otten's work. It's very interesting to note that these people he polled all watch the OHL closely or almost exclusively and they still like Chychrun as the 2nd best OHLer. It wouldn't surprise me if Juolevi, Chychrun and Sergachev were all in the Flames top 8.

Despite them having Nylander #3 there's a few quotes in that section which I think show why some of us think he may not be in the Flames top 6-8.

On Nylander:

"Fair bit of work to do when it comes to consistency and defensive effort however"

"My biggest issue has been that from the Ivan Hlinka Tournament right through to the OHL playoffs is that Nylander, at times, does not play up to his competition level. During the OHL’s regular season, 29% of Nylander’s offense came against the four non-playoff teams. Is it something that can change? I don’t know the answer but it draws my attention."

On HF some people have said his own coach called out Nylander for his defensive effort in the playoffs. This inconsistency, the poor defensive effort and the lack of physical game combined with him playing the least valuable and important position (wing) drops him out of our top 6 IMO.

On the defensemen its super interesting that these OHL watchers seem to have Juolevi as the 3rd defenseman while the consensus lists suggest he's the most favoured one. Again we see that some of the Chychrun believers still believe in his franchise dman potential although others think he may have plateaued. Two people had Chychrun as the top OHLer still ahead of Tkachuk!

1st place votes:
Tkachuk: 15
Chychrun: 2
Juolevi: 1

Chychrun and Brown continue to be wildcards. I've thought for a long time that the Flames may have Juolevi, Sergachev and Chychrun all top 8 and this article reinforces that idea for me.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Super interesting, I love Brock Otten's work. It's very interesting to note that these people he polled all watch the OHL closely or almost exclusively and they still like Chychrun as the 2nd best OHLer. It wouldn't surprise me if Juolevi, Chychrun and Sergachev were all in the Flames top 8.

Despite them having Nylander #3 there's a few quotes in that section which I think show why some of us think he may not be in the Flames top 6-8.

On Nylander:

"Fair bit of work to do when it comes to consistency and defensive effort however"

"My biggest issue has been that from the Ivan Hlinka Tournament right through to the OHL playoffs is that Nylander, at times, does not play up to his competition level. During the OHL’s regular season, 29% of Nylander’s offense came against the four non-playoff teams. Is it something that can change? I don’t know the answer but it draws my attention."

On HF some people have said his own coach called out Nylander for his defensive effort in the playoffs. This inconsistency, the poor defensive effort and the lack of physical game combined with him playing the least valuable and important position (wing) drops him out of our top 6 IMO.

On the defensemen its super interesting that these OHL watchers seem to have Juolevi as the 3rd defenseman while the consensus lists suggest he's the most favoured one. Again we see that some of the Chychrun believers still believe in his franchise dman potential although others think he may have plateaued. Two people had Chychrun as the top OHLer still ahead of Tkachuk!

1st place votes:
Tkachuk: 15
Chychrun: 2
Juolevi: 1

Chychrun and Brown continue to be wildcards. I've thought for a long time that the Flames may have Juolevi, Sergachev and Chychrun all top 8 and this article reinforces that idea for me.

there are also a number of quotes that show why many of us hope he's drafted by calgary:

"Electrifying talent, Nylander was a rookie to the OHL but had plied his craft in the Swedish professional ranks before joining Mississauga. Nylander can make plays and skate with the very best, never has to chase the game as it always seems to come to him"

"Nylander has all the talent in the world with elite puck skills, an elite shot and elite skating abilities. Combined, he’s dangerous in all offensive situations whether he’s rushing it up the ice himself for a scoring chance or drawing people towards him which opens up his teammates where he can deliver tape to tape passes for scoring chances."

“A cornerstone offensive forward who has mastered every level of play immediately. Has a stranglehold on the puck and NHL ready shot power. "

"Nylander’s elusiveness and otherworldly shooting accuracy are both unique traits. Add in that he’s one of the most gifted puck handlers in the class and you’ve got a package that oozes creativity and skill. He’s going to make an NHL fan base really happy for many years."

outside of the top 3, everyone has some warts: that's why they aren't top three. The question is whether is how much variance and whether those warts are things that can be addressed.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Rick M.

Nylander can play either wing. Perhaps they view him as a left wing?

He played LW prodominantly in Missisauga because of Nathan Bastien. But he does play both wings.

[TornBetween2Pucks]

So, perhaps we flip our pick with the Canucks (giving them a 2nd rounder that Jimmy (Brightboy) Benning gave to Florida) and we ensure either Tkachuk or Dubois as a cornerstone piece. I do believe the Canucks are leaning to Logan Brown. This is, to me, an entirely logical scenario that could happen on draft day.

[yourbestfriend]

If i'm taking a skilled winger at 6, i'm taking keller. He is the straw that stirs the drink, he's the type that makes his team mates better.
Just as skilled if not more skilled than nylander, plus he's got a motor and tenacity that nylander doesn't have. At the U-18's he was consistently used on the PK.
Doesn't hurt that this past season with the U18 USA NTDP, he outpointed both kessel and p.kane in their respective seasons.

[FlameZilla]

I like the look of Chychrun... but I also liked the look Phaneuf.

He has all the physical tools which you can't teach, but if he doesn't have a toolbox upstairs he could be another very talented Gong Show in his own end like Dion.

[FCAV]

On the topic of OHLers, our second #ScoutSeries comes from one of our Ontario-based guys. Some other names mentioned to keep an eye on:

http://futureconsiderations.ca/mete-...cout-galloway/

[greentree]

I'm coming around to either one of these two defencemen at six: Juolevi and Sergachev. I'd be happy with either one. I really like Sergachev's shot, and his personality. And he looks closer to NHL-ready than Juolevi. Because of his size. But Juolevi has more offensive skill imo. Both are very good.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by yourbestfriend

If i'm taking a skilled winger at 6, i'm taking keller. He is the straw that stirs the drink, he's the type that makes his team mates better.
Just as skilled if not more skilled than nylander, plus he's got a motor and tenacity that nylander doesn't have. At the U-18's he was consistently used on the PK.
Doesn't hurt that this past season with the U18 USA NTDP, he outpointed both kessel and p.kane in their respective seasons.

Wasn't Kane a year younger in his last full season?

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by greentree

I'm coming around to either one of these two defencemen at six: Juolevi and Sergachev. I'd be happy with either one. I really like Sergachev's shot, and his personality. And he looks closer to NHL-ready than Juolevi. Because of his size. But Juolevi has more offensive skill imo. Both are very good.

I'm thinking that fdw is on to something and the flames might have the 3 d ranked 6-8.

Bt wants us to be a bigger and heavier team. All three d check off the bigger checkmark and all but Juolevi have a physical element.

None of the f choices after 5 are overwhelmingly enticing so if we pick up a cornerstone d, I can get behind that.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

Bt wants us to be a bigger and heavier team.

BT has said he wants us to be a heavier team but he's never outright stated we need to be bigger. In fact he's made statements like "I thought we were the 'bigger'-playing team against Anaheim in the playoffs once Bouma and Ferland were in the mix"

Heavier? Absolutely. But some of the heaviest-playing players are sub 6-foot.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

BT has said he wants us to be a heavier team but he's never outright stated we need to be bigger. In fact he's made statements like "I thought we were the 'bigger'-playing team against Anaheim in the playoffs once Bouma and Ferland were in the mix"

Heavier? Absolutely. But some of the heaviest-playing players are sub 6-foot.

Thing is none of the F that might be available at 6 if all goes predicted play a heavy game. I would be surprised if the Flames go down that route as we are picking a foundational piece with our pick and that player should fit the style of play that management is seeking to establish. The big power F isn't going to be available barring a trade up or surprise in the top 5, so next best option is to go heavier (and bigger) on D.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

Thing is none of the F that might be available at 6 if all goes predicted play a heavy game. I would be surprised if the Flames go down that route as we are picking a foundational piece with our pick and that player should fit the style of play that management is seeking to establish. The big power F isn't going to be available barring a trade up or surprise in the top 5, so next best option is to go heavier (and bigger) on D.

Lots of forwards available play a heavy game just none have any business going in the top 10.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

Thing is none of the F that might be available at 6 if all goes predicted play a heavy game.

Then you fill out "heaviness" somewhere else and focus on what's available at 6 - high end skill.

[MarkGio]

That article reinforces Nylander over Tkachuk for me as the best forwards at #6. Look at what's being said:

Pros

• "[Tkachuk] is always in the mix around the net but also has the skilled hands to settle pucks and get a strong shot off all in a flash"
  
• "[Tkachuk] is a work horse battling and retrieving pucks in the corners or around the crease"
  
• "[Tkachuk] is skilled and physical"
  
• "[Tkachuk] can get under opponents skin and be a pest, he is defensively responsible and has a high hockey IQ"
  
• "The numbers [Tkachuk] posted for London in the regular season and during the playoffs were phenomenal"
  
• "[Tkachuk] dominated the regular season with a 107 points performance on the CHL’s top line from start to finish. He was an integral part of the Knights winning the OHL Championship and the Memorial Cup"
  
• "[Tkachuk] Piled up ridiculous numbers playing on the best line in junior hockey"
  
• "Tkachuk is going to line up well alongside any skilled pivot and will inject energy and perkiness into a team's top six well."

Cons

1. "[Tkachuk] won't win a speed race but he'll earn his money in the offensive zone."
   
2. "[Tkachuk] offensive skills are not all that flashy"
   
3. "Tkachuk has improvements to make in his stride"

Assessment

So what about his points? He played on the best line in the OHL, with two players who put up ridiculous numbers in the years before Tkachuk was on that line. Otherwise he's known for his IQ, getting into dirty areas, physicality and determination? At 6'1" he's not going to be the dominant specimen in the NHL as he was in the OHL. I like his work ethic and hands, but skating is a concern, which is only compounded at the NHL level. At the worst he makes a good energy bottom line forward, but at best he makes a top 6 power forward.

Now you look at Nylander:

Pros

• "Electrifying talent"
  
• "Nylander has all the talent in the world with elite puck skills, an elite shot and elite skating abilities"
  
• "Whether he’s rushing it up the ice himself for a scoring chance or drawing people towards him which opens up his teammates where he can deliver tape to tape passes for scoring chances"
  
• "Is going to be a top line winger in the NHL. Makes the game look easy"
  
• "A cornerstone offensive forward who has mastered every level of play immediately"
  
• "Nylander’s elusiveness and otherworldly shooting accuracy are both unique traits. Add in that he’s one of the most gifted puck handlers in the class and you’ve got a package that oozes creativity and skill"

Cons

• "During the OHL’s regular season, 29% of Nylander’s offense came against the four non-playoff teams"
  
• "Nylander, at times, does not play up to his competition level"
  
• "Fair bit of work to do when it comes to consistency and defensive effort"

Assessment

Nylander is apathetic at times and doesn't play good defense. Other than that he's an elite talent. He scores easier against easier opponents. He's also praised for his elite bloodline, which means nothing. At worst he busts because he doesn't put in the effort. At best he's an elite winger in the NHL.


Comparison
I'd rather have a better best-case scenario than worst-case scenario, especially when it comes to a winger looking to make an impact sooner than later for this club. Nylander played on the 7th worst team in the OHL, Tkachuk played on the 2nd best, so the scoring differences are not comparable.

To me, this is the difference between Kessel and Doan. Kessel wasn't fit to lead the Leafs, but he was perfect for the Penguins. Doan was fit to lead the Coyotes, even though he wasn't skilled enough to lead them to a championship.

Even if Nylander isn't the leader we need, he can provide elite secondary scoring behind the Gaudreau line, while either Bennett or Monahan are playing defense or heavy hockey. Besides, Nylander had better "determination" when it came to his health at the combine.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Super interesting, I love Brock Otten's work. It's very interesting to note that these people he polled all watch the OHL closely or almost exclusively and they still like Chychrun as the 2nd best OHLer. It wouldn't surprise me if Juolevi, Chychrun and Sergachev were all in the Flames top 8.

Despite them having Nylander #3 there's a few quotes in that section which I think show why some of us think he may not be in the Flames top 6-8.

On Nylander:

"Fair bit of work to do when it comes to consistency and defensive effort however"

"My biggest issue has been that from the Ivan Hlinka Tournament right through to the OHL playoffs is that Nylander, at times, does not play up to his competition level. During the OHL’s regular season, 29% of Nylander’s offense came against the four non-playoff teams. Is it something that can change? I don’t know the answer but it draws my attention."

On HF some people have said his own coach called out Nylander for his defensive effort in the playoffs. This inconsistency, the poor defensive effort and the lack of physical game combined with him playing the least valuable and important position (wing) drops him out of our top 6 IMO.

On the defensemen its super interesting that these OHL watchers seem to have Juolevi as the 3rd defenseman while the consensus lists suggest he's the most favoured one. Again we see that some of the Chychrun believers still believe in his franchise dman potential although others think he may have plateaued. Two people had Chychrun as the top OHLer still ahead of Tkachuk!

1st place votes:
Tkachuk: 15
Chychrun: 2
Juolevi: 1

Chychrun and Brown continue to be wildcards. I've thought for a long time that the Flames may have Juolevi, Sergachev and Chychrun all top 8 and this article reinforces that idea for me.

You have gone out of your way to downplay Nylander so much in this thread and provide us reasons the Flames won't or shouldn't pick him that I fear you may go into cardiac arrest if he's the guy picked at 6 by the Flames.

[blender]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You have gone out of your way to downplay Nylander so much in this thread and provide us reasons the Flames won't or shouldn't pick him that I fear you may go into cardiac arrest if he's the guy picked at 6 by the Flames.

Maybe we can start a support thread for posters who are too emotionally invested in Flames management decisions!