American Politics 3.0 - Back to Brunch

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Galakanokis

They cuffed him after...

Maybe he still had his lifeless hand in his waistband...

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

6 dead, 16 hospitalized - shooter still free.

How could anyone raise a family in these United States? I would be terrified of taking my children out in public- and if this happened while I had taken my children out in public I would promptly be selling everything and moving to a farm where I can raise them independently of society or some #### from the trauma.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Galakanokis

They cuffed him after...

Makes me want to puke. How could the person cuffing him even go through with it, the corpse would likely have been hopelessly mangled by bullet fire alone by then... just imagining trying to cuff those limp limbs is totally revolting on base levels. ACAB. Animals.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

How could anyone raise a family in these United States? I would be terrified of taking my children out in public- and if this happened while I had taken my children out in public I would promptly be selling everything and moving to a farm where I can raise them independently of society or some #### from the trauma.

I have a number of very close friends and family that live in the States. Hell one live in the middle of Columbine and Aurora.

I am honestly worried about their safety.

[JohnnyB]

A friend who recently moved to the US from Australia said he was shocked at the extent to which American life is amazing if you're rich and terrifying if you're poor. Seems apt.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

How could anyone raise a family in these United States? I would be terrified of taking my children out in public- and if this happened while I had taken my children out in public I would promptly be selling everything and moving to a farm where I can raise them independently of society or some #### from the trauma.

I was told by a good source a member of the Flames signed here because Parkland freaked out his wife.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

It seems obvious to me that the undercurrent of this death is the mere fact that guns are literally everywhere in America...hence the cops unloading when a guy even suggests that he owns a weapon.

It's so ubiquitous that an officer assumes the worst and unloads his clip at the mere suggestion of a weapon. I can only wonder how many more people would be alive if gun regulation became stringent. Perhaps the officers make different choices in an America with fewer guns. It's worthy a try...no?

100 percent this.

Also an officer has to assume the worst or they aren't going home to their families. There are plenty of videos on the internet of the shooting going the other way and if some of you would watch those you might have a better understanding of why these things turn out this way.

But when everyone potentially has a gun...even traffic stops are an intense high stress situation sometimes.

Yet very few people seem to mention this when these shootings happen, it's all about making the problem worse, no "victim" blaming, "defund" the police, descalation techniques blah blah and now these incidents are monetized, which also isn't going to help, Suicide by Cop is a real thing

[Monahammer]

Scared people shouldn't have guns. Scared people make mistakes. People with guns can't make mistakes.

I understand that police are scared, but let's unpack and diagnose that issue before becoming comfortable with obviously barbaric levels of force being justified.

Things that can be done to reduce police scaredness:
1. ####ING GUN LEGISLATION
2. Way, way more training for the police
3. inclusion of mental health services and de-escalation specialists

Why treat a young black kid as sadam hussein when he's clearly also terrified of the outcome to him being pulled over by the police? Why not treat it more like a hostage situation? Much like you argue the cops are scared, the kid was scared too. We need to reduce fear.

[Matata]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

How could anyone raise a family in these United States? I would be terrified of taking my children out in public- and if this happened while I had taken my children out in public I would promptly be selling everything and moving to a farm where I can raise them independently of society or some #### from the trauma.

If I was forced to move, I'd pick 20 places in the states before I'd pick anywhere else in world. Great weather, great income, low living costs. The US only sucks if you're poor.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Matata

If I was forced to move, I'd pick 20 places in the states before I'd pick anywhere else in world. Great weather, great income, low living costs. The US only sucks if you're poor.

Name those 20 great places and I bet I could find shootings of not just the poor.

[Monahammer]

Yeah. Bullets don't care about how much money mommy and daddy have.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

100 percent this.

Also an officer has to assume the worst or they aren't going home to their families. There are plenty of videos on the internet of the shooting going the other way and if some of you would watch those you might have a better understanding of why these things turn out this way.

But when everyone potentially has a gun...even traffic stops are an intense high stress situation sometimes.

Yet very few people seem to mention this when these shootings happen, it's all about making the problem worse, no "victim" blaming, "defund" the police, descalation techniques blah blah and now these incidents are monetized, which also isn't going to help, Suicide by Cop is a real thing

While I agree there has to be a better way than firing 90 errant shots to stop a suspect. Don't you think? Do you think they've nailed the solution here? This is like a SNL skit or like what Team America World Police was mocking. There is a thing called overkill and the USA passed that point several years ago but continue along pedal down. It's odd.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Yeah. Bullets don't care about how much money mommy and daddy have.

The bullets didn't care today, Highland Park is a nice area just north of Chicago.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

And the band played on...

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

While I agree there has to be a better way than firing 90 errant shots to stop a suspect. Don't you think? Do you think they've nailed the solution here? This is like a SNL skit or like what Team America World Police was mocking. There is a thing called overkill and the USA passed that point several years ago but continue along pedal down. It's odd.

Totally, all 13 of them should of huddled and chose one of them to take a potentially dangerous peruptator down. Hopefully he was kind of enough not to shoot before they made their decision. (Yes I know he didn't have a gun at that point, but that is known in hindsight is irrelevant in the heat of the moment). Instead they followed their training and emptied their mags, they all get to go home to their kids and stopped a potentially dangerous perputator who showed no regard for life by shooting out of his car from kiiling them, an innocent bystander, taking someone hostage...

What is your better idea?

[afc wimbledon]

About 50 years ago at the end of the 60's police training changed to the assumption that survival of the policeman if the most important factor in gun use, it was a result of social changes in the US that set up an 'Us versus Them' feeling within the police, the rise of SWAT training in LA and Vietnam probably didnt help, taking cops of the street and putting them in cars was also a factor

At this point in most of the US the cops are an army of occupation doing what any occupying force needs to do, cowing the population into submission

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Totally, all 13 of them should of huddled and chose one of them to take a potentially dangerous peruptator down. Hopefully he was kind of enough not to shoot before they made their decision. (Yes I know he didn't have a gun at that point, but that is known in hindsight is irrelevant in the heat of the moment). Instead they followed their training and emptied their mags, they all get to go home to their kids and stopped a potentially dangerous perputator who showed no regard for life by shooting out of his car from kiiling them, an innocent bystander, taking someone hostage...

What is your better idea?

Here is my suggestion:

- Let the armed child in the car flee the scene. You have a license plate. You probably have a ####ing helicopter. No need to send 14 squad cars hurtling at top speed towards the scared person.
- once the suspect fleeing has slowed down, begin a formal, planned operation to hunt and acquire the suspect.

If the crime that the suspect committed wasn't worth the manhunt following the flee, then it definitely wasn't worth killing that person over.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Here is my suggestion:

- Let the armed child in the car flee the scene. You have a license plate. You probably have a ####ing helicopter. No need to send 14 squad cars hurtling at top speed towards the scared person.
- once the suspect fleeing has slowed down, begin a formal, planned operation to hunt and acquire the suspect.

If the crime that the suspect committed wasn't worth the manhunt following the flee, then it definitely wasn't worth killing that person over.

Here's a hypothetical for you based on your suggestion:

The suspect fleeing is still scared and panicky. He/she decides to enter a nearby home to hide where he finds someone inside. There's a brief moment of surprise before the scared suspect shoots the innocent person in their home.

Would you not crucify the cops for NOT pursuing the suspect? Isn't that exactly what the cops in Uvalde are in trouble for? Not acting when they had the opportunity...waiting...then a bunch of innocents are dead.

There is definitely a hard decision to be made to avoid unnecessary death of suspects, but honestly, if it results in more deaths of innocent bystanders then I'm not at all for it.

[Izzle]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Here is my suggestion:



- Let the armed child in the car flee the scene. You have a license plate. You probably have a ####ing helicopter. No need to send 14 squad cars hurtling at top speed towards the scared person.

- once the suspect fleeing has slowed down, begin a formal, planned operation to hunt and acquire the suspect.



If the crime that the suspect committed wasn't worth the manhunt following the flee, then it definitely wasn't worth killing that person over.

An infinitely better solution.

[BlindMilwaukee]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Here's a hypothetical for you based on your suggestion:

The suspect fleeing is still scared and panicky. He/she decides to enter a nearby home to hide where he finds someone inside. There's a brief moment of surprise before the scared suspect shoots the innocent person in their home.

Would you not crucify the cops for NOT pursuing the suspect? Isn't that exactly what the cops in Uvalde are in trouble for? Not acting when they had the opportunity...waiting...then a bunch of innocents are dead.

There is definitely a hard decision to be made to avoid unnecessary death of suspects, but honestly, if it results in more deaths of innocent bystanders then I'm not at all for it.

While I see what your point is in this hypothetical - the cops in question are very lucky that the 30 odd bullets they fired that flew into the nearby community didn't strike any innocent bystanders. That isn't hypothetical - that actually happened.