04-21-2016, 11:54 AM
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#5321
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I believe in the Jays.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan
Well Bernie beats every GOP candidate in polls, while Hillary only beats two out of three, so there is some truth to nominating the most electable candidate.
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No, there isn't. Not at any level below surface at anyrate.
Sanders is not the most electable and I'll tell you why... he hasn't been thoroughly vetted. Hillary Clinton has had the Republican attack machine on her for roughly the last 25 Years either directly or as an ancillary to Bill while Sanders has had virtually none. That's not to say I think Sanders has skeletons in his closet (I don't) but it is to say that he's never had to really weather assaults on his political philosophy or record. Certainly not to the scale of a presidential candidate. So, yes in hypothetical head to head match-ups Sanders does better, but I haven't seen a U.S. political analyst worth listening to that thinks those type of general election polls are worth the paper they're printed on.
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04-21-2016, 11:57 AM
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#5322
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Calgary
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If Trump or Cruz calls Bernie a communist for 4 months, Bernie loses easily regardless because people would get scared.
__________________
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04-21-2016, 01:57 PM
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#5323
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sunshine Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caged Great
If Trump or Cruz calls Bernie a communist for 4 months, Bernie loses easily regardless because people would get scared.
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The Commie against the Fascist. Would be fun.
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04-21-2016, 02:04 PM
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#5324
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sunshine Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!
Yes. Absolutely he can. Government spending and the federal reserve are like the crack addicts and enablers you see on "Intervention". If one is buying one is spending. And if the one buying is big enough, interest rates become inconsequential. 4.5 trillion dollars piled into banks. Mergers and acquisitions are through the roof. Stock buy backs are going like crazy. It's like candyland for rich people. Average people are thrilled their mortgages are relatively cheap. But that's chump change compared to the real money.
They raised a few taxes and lowered a few taxes; added some banking rules; regulated some markets here and there; shot a couple terrorists in the face but by and large the Obama crew has done nothing but accelerate the wealth gap at unprecedented levels. From day one Obama promised to address this issue. It's probably his number one concern and admittedly his number one failure.
I get it though. The other guys made it too difficult. Creepy bankers gonna creep. All along there was never anything he could do.
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I'd put most of the blame on the GOP who have openly blocked everything and anything Obama has attempted to do. That the country has survived and is prospering is amazing.
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04-22-2016, 12:41 PM
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#5325
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Maryland State House, Annapolis
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So he's allegedly been outed as the Zodiac Killer, and as a member of Stryker. What's next for Ted Cruz? How about showing up on Maury in drag? Or is this his illegitimate daughter? Either way Ted has provided the most bizarre entertainment in this race (lol at the predictable Maury show topic).
__________________
"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
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04-22-2016, 01:37 PM
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#5326
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God of Hating Twitter
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I just at this point if its Hillary vs Trump, to see Trump win and watch the world burn. I loathe her and her supporters. Yeah some of Bernies supporters are annoying, but wow the arrogance of Hillary supporters and how they talk down to those Bernie bro's and call out constantly sexism! is getting old.
At least with the Bernie movement you see a growing young base of progressives in the US, which will hopefully start to snuff out any power the farther right of the US that has been driving us all crazy will start to become insignificant in the next decades.
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Allskonar fyrir Aumingja!!
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04-22-2016, 02:12 PM
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#5327
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Maryland State House, Annapolis
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Actually it's been significantly more annoying to see Bernie supporters use nothing but attacks that were created by Fox News and right wing radio on Hillary. They haven't come up with anything new or original, they're just rehashing the same things we've heard about her for the better part of 25 years. Bernie supporters are essentially doing to GOPs job for them, so they are literally helping their own enemy succeed. They've become so obsessed with winning they've forgotten that Hillary is mostly their ally (seeing as she and Bernie voted together 90+% of the time), and going after her helps their true enemy (like Cruz or Trump who'd love to permanently crush progressives)
Bernie might have had a movement that was meaningful at one point, but right now it's looking more and more like his legacy will be the creation of the left wing version of the Tea Party: Facts are mostly meaningless, media sources are mostly used for confirmation bias, and our hardline view of things have to be accepted, or else. Difference being the Tea Party actually started at the bottom whereas Bernie's movement is trying to jump in right at the top (conveniently ignoring how badly he needs support from the bottom to get anything done).
__________________
"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
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04-22-2016, 02:25 PM
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#5328
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Franchise Player
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis
Actually it's been significantly more annoying to see Bernie supporters use nothing but attacks that were created by Fox News and right wing radio on Hillary. They haven't come up with anything new or original, they're just rehashing the same things we've heard about her for the better part of 25 years. Bernie supporters are essentially doing to GOPs job for them, so they are literally helping their own enemy succeed. They've become so obsessed with winning they've forgotten that Hillary is mostly their ally (seeing as she and Bernie voted together 90+% of the time), and going after her helps their true enemy (like Cruz or Trump who'd love to permanently crush progressives)
Bernie might have had a movement that was meaningful at one point, but right now it's looking more and more like his legacy will be the creation of the left wing version of the Tea Party: Facts are mostly meaningless, media sources are mostly used for confirmation bias, and our hardline view of things have to be accepted, or else. Difference being the Tea Party actually started at the bottom whereas Bernie's movement is trying to jump in right at the top (conveniently ignoring how badly he needs support from the bottom to get anything done).
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An exaggeration IMO, but I somewhat agree with the sentiment. The Bernie-camp has some really annoyingly polarizing rhetorics.
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04-22-2016, 02:27 PM
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#5329
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God of Hating Twitter
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Its more simple than that, its the anger of people who feel their government does not represent them, and see Hillary is another stay the course politician.
Believe me plenty of Hillary supporters are just as stubborn with facts. I mean so much of the things they are huffing over are the same things Obama supporters said about Hillary supporters during their feisty campaign.
__________________
Allskonar fyrir Aumingja!!
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04-22-2016, 02:44 PM
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#5330
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sunshine Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis
Actually it's been significantly more annoying to see Bernie supporters use nothing but attacks that were created by Fox News and right wing radio on Hillary. They haven't come up with anything new or original, they're just rehashing the same things we've heard about her for the better part of 25 years. Bernie supporters are essentially doing to GOPs job for them, so they are literally helping their own enemy succeed. They've become so obsessed with winning they've forgotten that Hillary is mostly their ally (seeing as she and Bernie voted together 90+% of the time), and going after her helps their true enemy (like Cruz or Trump who'd love to permanently crush progressives)
Bernie might have had a movement that was meaningful at one point, but right now it's looking more and more like his legacy will be the creation of the left wing version of the Tea Party: Facts are mostly meaningless, media sources are mostly used for confirmation bias, and our hardline view of things have to be accepted, or else. Difference being the Tea Party actually started at the bottom whereas Bernie's movement is trying to jump in right at the top (conveniently ignoring how badly he needs support from the bottom to get anything done).
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From what I've read the Tea Party didn't start at the bottom as it's stooges claim. It seems it was financed by the Koch brothers.
http://www.salon.com/2015/10/27/char...s_the_results/
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04-22-2016, 03:11 PM
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#5331
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Maryland State House, Annapolis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thor
Its more simple than that, its the anger of people who feel their government does not represent them, and see Hillary is another stay the course politician.
Believe me plenty of Hillary supporters are just as stubborn with facts. I mean so much of the things they are huffing over are the same things Obama supporters said about Hillary supporters during their feisty campaign.
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I would imagine that has to do with speaking from experience right? They know what Bernie supporters are going through right now since they did the same in 08: Wanting to win so very badly, even as it is becoming impossible to do so. So you talk yourself into believing the impossible will happen (We're going to win New York!), and when it doesn't you get angrier as people point out more harsh realities rather than accept it. Typical of the stages of grief I suppose.
Most Bernie supporters will come around, and I suspect he severely dials it back after next Tuesday, which looks like he's walking into another buzzsaw. Or maybe they'll triple down and think they can win California 85-15 to secure the pledge delegate lead. Let's hope they come back to reality though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan
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Right, its financed from on high, but they started at the bottom by targeting Republicans for primaries, not even just running third party to beat Dems. That's as low on the bar as you can get for Federal politics. Bernie's movement is going right for the Presidency, which if he somehow wins will almost certainly be burdened with a GOP House and Senate, effectively making him a lame duck President on day 1. Start by trying to get more progressives in Congress. When Obama had the stacked deck of 60 Senate seats (i.e. filibuster proof) and control of the House, he still couldn't get healthcare passed. Whether Bernie likes it or not, there's a lot of blue dog and conservative Democrats. If he ever wants single payer, he needs tons more progressives instead. Start from the bottom, and work up.
__________________
"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
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04-22-2016, 03:21 PM
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#5332
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God of Hating Twitter
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The overwhelming Bernie supporters on my FB feed are realistic, they know he's pretty much done at this point but want to see him finish up, like Hillary did with Obama.
Also that those US friends of mine are all going to support Hillary in the national race, I've only seen one guy on my feed that says otherwise, he's truly stupid, the stuff he posts is always from some unknown source and is constantly talking about how the race has been rigged.
My biggest issue with Hillary is she's a war hawk, will do nothing to deal with big banks or wallstreet, and the most important issue trying to get money out of politics or dealing with citizens united, I have zero hope for that happening with her.
I understand that practical people who say Bernie would be blocked at every turn, but I'd rather have that happen and say we tried and hold the Republicans obstructionism to the fire come mid term elections in congress, instead of having Hillary who will do what Obama did and have to concede so much just to get anything passed that she will end up being right of center again, which is the problem since polls over and over show a big shift of the majority supporting progressive policies.
Not to mention the dominance of the Repubs in congress with their long project of gerrymandering, but even that will slowly fade as the youth start to get older and the populace becomes diverse. I don't see the US getting anything done until congress starts to reflect the will of the people, not how its been the last 10 years.
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Allskonar fyrir Aumingja!!
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04-22-2016, 03:44 PM
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#5333
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Lifetime In Suspension
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The problem with Bernie is the free pass he's been given by his supporters regarding his hypocrisy. From a strong gun state? Well what do you know, he votes in the interest of gun manufacturers. This is explained away as "he has to vote to represent his constituents' values!" Hillary's from NY yet if she votes in favour of Wall Street the same logic is ignored and it's "she let's big banks run the show!"
Never mind that Bernie has zero actual plan to break up big banks as he puts it. His campaign has been the equivalent of Kramer yelling "THEY WRITE IT OFF JERRY! THEY JUST WRITE IT OFF!"
I have issue with him as well choosing to believe science when he wants to because it plays to his base. Global warming? Yeah, can't argue with the science. But then he turns around and decries the lack of GMO labeling in the US when that's been shown to be a load of crap.
Sure his ideas are appealing but he has no substance. Helping move the party a little more to the left is great but outside if that he'd have been better off running as the new Nader.
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04-22-2016, 03:57 PM
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#5334
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God of Hating Twitter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ResAlien
Never mind that Bernie has zero actual plan to break up big banks as he puts it. His campaign has been the equivalent of Kramer yelling "THEY WRITE IT OFF JERRY! THEY JUST WRITE IT OFF!"
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http://www.salon.com/2016/04/12/robe..._that_partner/
Quote:
I have issue with him as well choosing to believe science when he wants to because it plays to his base. Global warming? Yeah, can't argue with the science. But then he turns around and decries the lack of GMO labeling in the US when that's been shown to be a load of crap.
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Agreed, that bothers me as you can imagine quite a bit as a pro GMO advocate.
Quote:
Sure his ideas are appealing but he has no substance. Helping move the party a little more to the left is great but outside if that he'd have been better off running as the new Nader.
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I don't agree, he has plenty of substance, this is one of the attempts by Hillary's people to try to paint him as a man with lots of talk but no plans. His website and plenty of articles are available for any and all of his plans if you seek them out.
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Allskonar fyrir Aumingja!!
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04-22-2016, 04:18 PM
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#5335
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Maryland State House, Annapolis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thor
The overwhelming Bernie supporters on my FB feed are realistic, they know he's pretty much done at this point but want to see him finish up, like Hillary did with Obama.
Also that those US friends of mine are all going to support Hillary in the national race, I've only seen one guy on my feed that says otherwise, he's truly stupid, the stuff he posts is always from some unknown source and is constantly talking about how the race has been rigged.
My biggest issue with Hillary is she's a war hawk, will do nothing to deal with big banks or wallstreet, and the most important issue trying to get money out of politics or dealing with citizens united, I have zero hope for that happening with her.
I understand that practical people who say Bernie would be blocked at every turn, but I'd rather have that happen and say we tried and hold the Republicans obstructionism to the fire come mid term elections in congress, instead of having Hillary who will do what Obama did and have to concede so much just to get anything passed that she will end up being right of center again, which is the problem since polls over and over show a big shift of the majority supporting progressive policies.
Not to mention the dominance of the Repubs in congress with their long project of gerrymandering, but even that will slowly fade as the youth start to get older and the populace becomes diverse. I don't see the US getting anything done until congress starts to reflect the will of the people, not how its been the last 10 years.
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But how did Republican obstructionism get "held to the fire" with Obama? Well their seat counts in both the House and Senate increased. American public apparently either didn't care or didn't want to punish them for it, and if anything rewarded them. As far as the banks go Bernie was sort of outed as not knowing much on his core subject. The fact Hillary turned around and dropped "What about AIG and those types of non-bank financial institutions?" didn't help his cause. Seems like she's better versed at his own core issue than he is.
But that too is legislative issue he has to pass through Republicans and Conservative Dems. He's not getting 60 progressive Senators and 230 progressive Congresspeople to do whatever he wants. If he expects to pass anything ever he needs to work with the middle and right. Expecting him to hold a hard line on simply passing progressive policies is the path of a failed Presidency. Sure I guess he'll have "tried", but in the process he probably hands the GOP an even more dominant legislative advantage by failing miserably.
__________________
"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
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04-22-2016, 04:26 PM
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#5336
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sunshine Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis
I would imagine that has to do with speaking from experience right? They know what Bernie supporters are going through right now since they did the same in 08: Wanting to win so very badly, even as it is becoming impossible to do so. So you talk yourself into believing the impossible will happen (We're going to win New York!), and when it doesn't you get angrier as people point out more harsh realities rather than accept it. Typical of the stages of grief I suppose.
Most Bernie supporters will come around, and I suspect he severely dials it back after next Tuesday, which looks like he's walking into another buzzsaw. Or maybe they'll triple down and think they can win California 85-15 to secure the pledge delegate lead. Let's hope they come back to reality though.
Right, its financed from on high, but they started at the bottom by targeting Republicans for primaries, not even just running third party to beat Dems. That's as low on the bar as you can get for Federal politics. Bernie's movement is going right for the Presidency, which if he somehow wins will almost certainly be burdened with a GOP House and Senate, effectively making him a lame duck President on day 1. Start by trying to get more progressives in Congress. When Obama had the stacked deck of 60 Senate seats (i.e. filibuster proof) and control of the House, he still couldn't get healthcare passed. Whether Bernie likes it or not, there's a lot of blue dog and conservative Democrats. If he ever wants single payer, he needs tons more progressives instead. Start from the bottom, and work up.
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What difference is it how it starts. The Tea Party had the religious right to organize their political ambitions. Sure they started out with electing dog catchers but after a while their small percentage controlled the GOP.
The left doesn't have a church to mobilize so they have rallied around a leader. I don't see anything wrong with that other than when Bernie moves on, someone else needs to take up the mantle. I think we are seeing the end of the Blue Dog Democrat as the country votes more in line with it's political philosophies and the Democrats will truly represent the left.
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04-22-2016, 06:24 PM
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#5337
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Maryland State House, Annapolis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan
What difference is it how it starts. The Tea Party had the religious right to organize their political ambitions. Sure they started out with electing dog catchers but after a while their small percentage controlled the GOP.
The left doesn't have a church to mobilize so they have rallied around a leader. I don't see anything wrong with that other than when Bernie moves on, someone else needs to take up the mantle. I think we are seeing the end of the Blue Dog Democrat as the country votes more in line with it's political philosophies and the Democrats will truly represent the left.
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It's important how it starts because they already have everything in place if Cruz wins to pass all the bat#### fantasies he wants. They built their obstruction loving Congress over the years. Bernie couldn't pass a bill calling America "the greatest country ever" without being obstructed. Bernie has few allies even within the party he wants to lead. The movement is nothing if they don't move on to the grassroots level and get their people in Congress. But the problem for them is there is always going to be Democrats from the Midwest and South who will often be more conservative, like it or not. So solving that part of the equation, as Obama learned, means compromising. Not every Democrat is a Northeast or West Coast liberal. Its a broader party than the GOP.
__________________
"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
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04-22-2016, 06:59 PM
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#5338
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sunshine Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis
It's important how it starts because they already have everything in place if Cruz wins to pass all the bat#### fantasies he wants. They built their obstruction loving Congress over the years. Bernie couldn't pass a bill calling America "the greatest country ever" without being obstructed. Bernie has few allies even within the party he wants to lead. The movement is nothing if they don't move on to the grassroots level and get their people in Congress. But the problem for them is there is always going to be Democrats from the Midwest and South who will often be more conservative, like it or not. So solving that part of the equation, as Obama learned, means compromising. Not every Democrat is a Northeast or West Coast liberal. Its a broader party than the GOP.
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Well things change.
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In 2008 the Blue Dog caucus in the House boasted 54 members. By 2014 they were down to 19. After last week, they’re down to just 10.
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http://www.salon.com/2014/11/12/bye_...s_for_america/
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04-22-2016, 07:40 PM
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#5339
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis
So he's allegedly been outed as the Zodiac Killer, and as a member of Stryker. What's next for Ted Cruz? How about showing up on Maury in drag? Or is this his illegitimate daughter? Either way Ted has provided the most bizarre entertainment in this race (lol at the predictable Maury show topic).
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I'm sposed to go see Stryker in a couple weeks, buddies band is opening.
Hopefully Ted can autograph my spandex.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamer
Even though he says he only wanted steak and potatoes, he was aware of all the rapes.
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04-22-2016, 11:00 PM
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#5340
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I believe in the Jays.
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Small Primer for the rest of the GOP Race...
April 26th: Connecticut, Maryland, Pennsylvania, Delaware, & Rhode Island. Penn has the most delegates up for grabs with 71 but Maryland with 38 is actually the biggest prize since Penn only has 14 statewide delegates up for grabs with all remaining delegates being elected as undeclareds (so no manditory 1st ballot obligation). Delaware is awared winner take all statewise, Rhode Island is the rare late season proportional, the rest are winner take all Statewide combined with winner take all at the district level. Expect it to be a good night for Trump, he leads in most polls of the region.
May 3rd: Indiana. The 2nd biggest prize remaining, 27 state wide and 27 district level delegates. Winner take all at both levels. Tight race, the general thought is that Trump needs to win this state to get enough delegates to win on the 1st ballot... it's highly suspected that Indiana will be one of those states that trump delegates will defect after the 1st ballot when they become unbound. It's a tight race Trump 41, Cruz 33, Kasich 16.
May 10th: West Virginia & Nebraska: WV is a direct delegate election (like Colorado) and Nebraska is winner take all at both levels (heavily slanted towards statewide). Should be a good night for Cruz.
May 17th: Oregon. Proportional. Not many delegates to be had, very little polling.
May 24th: Washington State. Proportional at state level, winner take most at district. very little polling... probably a close split in delegates
June 7th: New Jersey, California, Montana, New Mexico, South Dekota. The end of the line New Mexico is proportional, California is winner take all at both levels heavily allocated at the district level, the rest are winner take all statewide. California is the big prize with 171 delegates and Jersey has 51.
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Even smaller primer for democrats... they're all proportional and Clinton is going to win. Really, Sanders has virtually no realistic path to the nomination.
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