Edmonton is No Good XI: Mud, Sweatpants and Tiers

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The problem with the idea of a "discount" is you have to agree to what the player is worth before the discount.

With Holloway and Broberg they were supposedly asking for $1.5M and $1.8M respectively...which based on what St.Louis was willing to offer you could consider was already a discount.

So at that point taking $1M to stay in Edmonton isn't being willing to take a discount, but actually just being lowballed.

It's the same case with Draisaitl right now.

He's going to think he's worth $14M+ per season based on Matthews deal, and I actually don't see him wanting to take less tham Matthews $13.25M. I think there is a bit of competition between those 2 and that Drai sees himself as clearly the better player.

For Draistail he's going to think that $13.25M is already taking a big discount.

But for Oilers brass and media they seem to think that Draisaitl should be taking between $11-$12M in order to stay and take a discount. And honestly I just don't see that happening.

No one is taking that big of a discount to stay in Edmonton I am sorry.

Let's look at Colorado. MacKinnon took 100K more than McDavid, it looks like a great deal now, but at the time it was signed the cap was in flux. The team was about to lose a bunch of pieces to free agency from the cup winning team.

Kadri loved Colorado, he could have taken a discount to stay but he didn't. Burakovsky took the money and went to Seattle.

Florida has players leave, even grinders like Cousins and Lomberg. Could have probably signed for less but they took the money and left.

Edmonton hasn't even won a thing and they keep talking about winning and chasing cups.

Someone is going to pay Drai what he wants maybe more, while Oiler fans can look out the window holding a sign that says but but cups and winning.

Winning is also random af, and most of these probably think they can take the money and go win with that team.

They use examples of 3rd anf 4th liners as discount players but most of them have been paid and aren't really taking a discount and probably just want a job. Using 12 point Janmark as an example and saying he took 1.45M as a discount is ridiculous.

[BrownDrake]

In a dream I had the oil start the season below 500 at the 20 game mark and the jerseys start flying, pissy is traded to the only team he will resign as his agent leaks such and that kills the oil return.

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by sarge

Coiler Apologist/Clown/Jock Sniffer Spector is at it again. He is claiming that if all of the Coil’s star players who are up for contracts soon take hometown & the so called Stanley Cup discounts, they are certain to win multiple cups…


https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article...smartest-move/

Literally the day before this, Spector wrote an article saying the Oilers were amazing in clearing space to keep both Broberg and Holloway. It's pretty amazing how fast he can change gears and act like he was right the whole time.

[GhostCookie]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

Literally the day before this, Spector wrote an article saying the Oilers were amazing in clearing space to keep both Broberg and Holloway. It's pretty amazing how fast he can change gears and act like he was right the whole time.

Well no need to stand for anything you wrote in the past no matter how recent, when your sine is water soluble.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

Literally the day before this, Spector wrote an article saying the Oilers were amazing in clearing space to keep both Broberg and Holloway. It's pretty amazing how fast he can change gears and act like he was right the whole time.

It really exposes him when no matter what the Oilers do they're right and brilliant. Every answer can't be correct, I'm afraid. And he gives their "brain trust" more credit than it deserves considering the team is built on years of ineptitude.

Requiring a culture of discount taking and having a 21 man roster generally means you allocated cap poorly at several points and are paying for it.

Usually it's not something to be lauded, but these guys have been sitting in their stink so long that they've fallen in love with it at the cost of any shred of objectivity that may have remained.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by SaskyFlamesFan

I’m starting to think this whole narrative of taking less to win Stanley Cups is a being planted by Katz and his henchmen to put pressure on Draisaitl or make him look like the bad guy when he decides not to sign. Every player in the NHL wants to win cups, its the competitiveness that got them to that level. Even if he signs for 13.5 x 8 they will push that narrative but total dollars that is more than 15 x 7 (math is hard for Edmonton media) so did he really leave money on the table. There is no guarantee he plays beyond this contract. Getzlaf as an example retired when he was 37. Draisaitl will be basically 30 when this kicks in.

I've said it before but its the Drum I will keep banging.

Austin Matthews.

He knows the Cap continually rises and he wants his cut of it, so he doesnt take long deals.

I know hockey players are always concerned about their Health and Productivity which explains the proclivity for long-term/high-dollar deals. They want to be set for life.

Matthews is willing to gamble. Take a certain percentage of Cap for a shorter term so the next time he signs for a similar percentage he's taking a bigger slice of a bigger pie.

Its brilliant. Yeah, he protects himself with signing bonuses etc. but I like his attitude towards his Career as an opportunity.

Nobody wants Draisaitl for $13.5M or whatever from 30-38. Thats insane.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Locke

I've said it before but its the Drum I will keep banging.

Austin Matthews.

He knows the Cap continually rises and he wants his cut of it, so he doesnt take long deals.

I know hockey players are always concerned about their Health and Productivity which explains the proclivity for long-term/high-dollar deals. They want to be set for life.

Matthews is willing to gamble. Take a certain percentage of Cap for a shorter term so the next time he signs for a similar percentage he's taking a bigger slice of a bigger pie.

Its brilliant. Yeah, he protects himself with signing bonuses etc. but I like his attitude towards his Career as an opportunity.

Nobody wants Draisaitl for $13.5M or whatever from 30-38. Thats insane.

Wait, what?

It's definitely less than ideal if you're choosing which years to have a player. But if Draisaitl goes to free agency there will be a rush of teams lining up with offers and a bunch more teams behind that going "****, I wish we could make the cap work for this contract but we're simply too tight".

[Locke]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Wait, what?

It's definitely less than ideal if you're choosing which years to have a player. But if Draisaitl goes to free agency there will be a rush of teams lining up with offers and a bunch more teams behind that going "****, I wish we could make the cap work for this contract but we're simply too tight".

I should have worded that a little more accurately.

"Nobody should want Draisaitl from 30-38."

Yeah, some people will try it. Those people also know that they're going to be fired before that deal really comes home to Roost. Thats part of the NHL's problem.

How's that Huberdeau Contract? Treliving doesnt care. He's gone.
How's that Nurse Contract? Holland doesnt care. He's gone.

And on and on. GMs will take swings because they dont face consequences.

I think that signing a 30-year old to an 8-year deal will, 99 times out of 100, eventually blow up in your face.

[McG]

What if pissy says something like “I love oilers and the late nights in Edmonton, the fans too…and especially playing basketball with 8 foot ceilings. I’m willing to sign again, but I want to get to July 1, 2025 to see what sweet baby Conner does…and I want to see what I get offered on the open market and then I’ll give oilers a chance to match.”

So a willingness to stay, an opportunity for matching, can be spun by “incredible management” as “we don’t have to pay for 8 years”, and zero discount. It would generate incredible angst amongst the unwashed, but it would address everything. Of course, the “greatest fans in the world (banner worthy btw)” might have already driven d rat out of town by then, and philosophically driven Mavi out as well.

[Hockey-and_stuff]

Players should never take a discount. At the very best you have a 20 year career and that's if you manage to stay healthy and be talented enough to play long term in the league.

When you're closer to the fringe, why would you take a discount? Broberg is set to make an extra seven million dollars on the offer sheet he just signed. His career could be over before he is 30. That money is not just for him but his family.

Winning the Cup is important, but setting yourself up for your life beyond hockey should be just as crucial for players.

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[GioforPM]

The "they should stay and win a cup" is just how entitled Oiler fans think this works. They think they are owed a cup and it's coming no matter what.

Reminder - Draisaitl's agent said they ahd to sign by the end of this month or there'd be no negotiations until the end of the season - I hope it wasn't a bluff.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The "they should stay and win a cup" is just how entitled Oiler fans think this works. They think they are owed a cup and it's coming no matter what.

Reminder - Draisaitl's agent said they ahd to sign by the end of this month or there'd be no negotiations until the end of the season - I hope it wasn't a bluff.

Once camp starts, I could see them shutting down contract talks quickly if they aren't going well.

Matthews signed mid-August
MacKinnon signed mid-September

Both signed a year early, but both signed in the off season or early in camp. I doubt Leon wants to be asked daily about it once pre-season games start.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

Once camp starts, I could see them shutting down contract talks quickly if they aren't going well.

Matthews signed mid-August
MacKinnon signed mid-September

Both signed a year early, but both signed in the off season or early in camp. I doubt Leon wants to be asked daily about it once pre-season games start.

The media in Edmonton will pester him to death. And the questions will probably all somehow work McDavid into the equation, just like at the end of the year presser.

Say what you want about the Calgary media, but they come across as way less needy and are respectful and less brown nosing.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Locke

I've said it before but its the Drum I will keep banging.

Austin Matthews.

He knows the Cap continually rises and he wants his cut of it, so he doesnt take long deals.

I know hockey players are always concerned about their Health and Productivity which explains the proclivity for long-term/high-dollar deals. They want to be set for life.

Matthews is willing to gamble. Take a certain percentage of Cap for a shorter term so the next time he signs for a similar percentage he's taking a bigger slice of a bigger pie.

Its brilliant. Yeah, he protects himself with signing bonuses etc. but I like his attitude towards his Career as an opportunity.

Nobody wants Draisaitl for $13.5M or whatever from 30-38. Thats insane.

It's not much of a gamble, either. The risk of having a career ending injury is very low. If you're the best at what you do (scoring, in the case of Matthews) and in the prime of your career, you hold all the leverage and cards.

Long term deals are betting against yourself, which is what you should do the first day you wake up and you're past your peak. Up until then, the career earning maximizing strategy is signing 1-year deals.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The "they should stay and win a cup" is just how entitled Oiler fans think this works. They think they are owed a cup and it's coming no matter what.

Reminder - Draisaitl's agent said they ahd to sign by the end of this month or there'd be no negotiations until the end of the season - I hope it wasn't a bluff.

This general attitude that seems to permeate their media and fanbase is why they suck and deserve ridicule every time they fall short.

And it's definitely not a bluff. He's done there unless they compile a generous offer that pays the guy what he's worth in this market.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Hockey-and_stuff

Players should never take a discount. At the very best you have a 20 year career and that's if you manage to stay healthy and be talented enough to play long term in the league.

When you're closer to the fringe, why would you take a discount? Broberg is set to make an extra seven million dollars on the offer sheet he just signed. His career could be over before he is 30. That money is not just for him but his family.

Winning the Cup is important, but setting yourself up for your life beyond hockey should be just as crucial for players.

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

This should be an easy conclusion to draw but oilers people don't appear to understand what goes through the mind of a player who is faced with uncertainty as to what they are/can be in the league.

Contrary to what they think, the priority of these young men trying to set themselves up for life isn't taking hair cuts on potentially the only nhl contracfs they could sign for the good of the oilers. They don't love the organization more than their long term security, I'm afraid.

Particularly one doling out an inordinate percentage of cap on players like Nurse. But you should take scraps just because we're in a crunch and be happy to do it.

They're so delulu it's cringe.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Locke

I think that signing a 30-year old to an 8-year deal will, 99 times out of 100, eventually blow up in your face.

And GM's know that. It's the price to contend now. Then teams will need to rebuild anyway.

[Titan2]

Originally Posted by Locke

I should have worded that a little more accurately.

"Nobody should want Draisaitl from 30-38."

Yeah, some people will try it. Those people also know that they're going to be fired before that deal really comes home to Roost. Thats part of the NHL's problem.

How's that Huberdeau Contract? Treliving doesnt care. He's gone.
How's that Nurse Contract? Holland doesnt care. He's gone.

And on and on. GMs will take swings because they dont face consequences.

I think that signing a 30-year old to an 8-year deal will, 99 times out of 100, eventually blow up in your face.

Agreed. But you forgot the other option. Win and all is forgiven.

Both players could easily be the difference for a close team. Give them their money, win in the next 3-4 seasons, nobody will care about the back end.

[Buff]

Catching up on this thread and reading about McDrai taking discounts to stay in Edmonton make me do some looking up of the Oilers cap situation. Even if those two take a discount they won't have enough Cap to go around to fill out the rest of their roster.

These guys come off the books:
Draisaitl - $8.5
J.Skinner - $3.0
Perry - $1.15
C.Brown - $1.0
Ryan - $0.9
Bouchard - $3.9
Emberson - $0.95
Neal - $1.91

They want to keep Draisaitl and Bouchard and they have $21.31M to give those two and replace the leaving players. Maybe Drai settles down for $12.5M... is that a discount? ... That leaves $8.81 for Bouchard... is that even enough for Bouchard? How much will the cap go up? Not enough to pay Drai, Bouch and replace the outbound players.

Draisaitl's agent would be very dumb to not realize and inform him that he won't get the money he wants from Edmonton with the team being competitive. He can take a discount and stay and lose or he can go somewhere else, get his pay day and probably be in a better situation.

Draisaitl is gone. Edmonton is done. McDavid will follow right after that. Edmonton's situation can best be described the same way we describe their team and city. No Good.

[Eric Vail]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

This general attitude that seems to permeate their media and fanbase is why they suck and deserve ridicule every time they fall short.

And it's definitely not a bluff. He's done there unless they compile a generous offer that pays the guy what he's worth in this market.

They need to overpay to keep these guys.

1) Edmonton has no prospects, no picks and no future. They be one of seven or eight teams with a shot this year, but that window is closing fast. Then they descend into the 15 year decade of darkness.

2) Edmonton is a Soviet style wasteland. There are 30 better places to live in the NHL.

3) His new wife is an actress and likely has her eye on places that will further her career.

4) He also could make more endorsements and pay less taxes elsewhere.

Market value is not going to get it done. Below market value is ridiculous.